The last hour

[Hiddenthings]

@rebuilder 454

Jesus became Immortal

A tough subject to face but well worth the investment.

 

[rebuilder 454]

How can he be?

John 5:26 "For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself."

To create this type of paradox is why you hold to an unexplainable mystery and an unknowable God.

Jn 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
You either follow watchtower false cult religion, or you follow Jesus.

To deny Jesus, as you do, is to deny the father.
To need to get saved.

 

[rebuilder 454]

@rebuilder 454

Jesus became Immortal

A tough subject to face but well worth the investment.

You do realize you are on a CHRISTIAN FORUM???
What are you doing here?????

I could smell something going on in here before you openly denied Jesus.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Jn 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
You either follow watchtower false cult religion, or you follow Jesus.

To deny Jesus, as you do, is to deny the father.
To need to get saved.

True also...what the Lord became...

 

[Hiddenthings]

You do realize you are on a CHRISTIAN FORUM???
What are you doing here?????

I could smell something going on in here before you openly denied Jesus.

It's not uncommon for those who cannot see or hear truth to assume a place of superiority. You wouldn't fall into such a trap 454?

 

[lforrest]

We have been in the last hour for two thousand years.

I think the Father is keeping the details of the day and hour a secret for a good reason. Some will meet the Lord in the skies, but far more will pass before that day. For those who are dying the hour of judgement is always near, because life is short.

We live like we have forever but our life may be demanded of us suddenly. If there were no urgency to repent everyone would put it off, assuming they will live to see the Lord coming with the clouds.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus said he was coming quickly to 7 churches which was penned by John.

There is only one last hour I know of that stands the test of time today.

Death, everyone has to die in this life.

No one ever came back but Jesus; either way you personally are gonna get to that point one day…

Jesus did it; so will we only not as brutal as back then most likely.

Some natural causes some heart attacks some may murder another person, there are kinds of ways.


Fear God.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Have another look but this time I'll highlight to assit

For the death he (Jesus) died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God. Romans 6:10
Through Christ, we have died to sin and now live to serve and glorify God Romans 6:11

And now I'll add 1 Peter 2:24

“He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.”

Your focus is on the word "once" and also the writers focus on what is promise to Christ and those in Christ.

The death is complete cessation of life, and the reward is eternal ever living life.

To reduce one is to reduce the other.

Peter understood something about the Lord's body and what happened in it that you are missing.

You are not making any sense. It could not be more clear that verses like Romans 6:2, Romans 6:7 and 1 Peter 2:24 are speaking in present tense in terms of believers being spiritually dead to sin because of what Jesus did for us. Your carnal perspective prevents you from understanding spiritual things. I really have to question how anyone who claims to be a Christian can't understand the concept of being dead to sin in the sense of being set free from the penalty of sin by the blood of Christ because of belonging to Christ.

Are you somehow not aware that one's life changes dramatically after becoming saved and born again of the Holy Spirit? Do you think a person remains dead in their sins even after being saved? Passages like Ephesians 2:1-6 make it quite clear that when someone becomes saved spiritually, then they are no longer dead in sins but instead spiritually alive in Christ. So, we become dead to sin in that sense when we become saved/born again. This is something every Christian should be able to easily understand, yet you don't understand it, which is concerning.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You sound like watchtower.

She is.

Is Jesus the creator?

She denies that Jesus is God.

 

[Hiddenthings]

You are not making any sense. It could not be more clear that verses like Romans 6:2, Romans 6:7 and 1 Peter 2:24 are speaking in present tense in terms of believers being spiritually dead to sin because of what Jesus did for us.

Let me show you.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This death is it spiritual or physical?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Let me show you.

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This death is it spiritual or physical?

That is referring to the second death which is eternal separation from God. When Jesus comes unbelievers will be separated from God's presence forever (2 Thessalonians 1:9). That is the second death (Revelation 20:14-15), which is eternal. Notice that Paul refers to the gift of God being eternal life, so it only follows that he was contrasting that with something eternal, which is eternal death. It's not referring to physical death (the first death), as I think you probably believe.

 

[Hiddenthings]

That is referring to the second death which is eternal separation from God. When Jesus comes unbelievers will be separated from God's presence forever (2 Thessalonians 1:9). That is the second death (Revelation 20:14-15), which is eternal. Notice that Paul refers to the gift of God being eternal life, so it only follows that he was contrasting that with something eternal, which is eternal death. It's not referring to physical death (the first death), as I think you probably believe.

For now lets go with its speaking to a physical death which is correct.

If the wages of sin is death (results in a physical death) why did Jesus' experience such a death?

Context:

Romans 6:10 "For the death he died, he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives, he lives to God."

Why was it essential Christ die to death (sin) once for all.

Keep in mind the reward in both verses is the same - promise of Divine Nature in Christ Jesus "live to God"

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

For now lets go with its speaking to a physical death which is correct.

LOL. Yes, let's just ignore the context of the verse. It's typical of people like you to want to ignore context and to not want to address other's arguments. This is a big joke. No, I'm not going to go with what I know is incorrect. If you actually address what I said in my post instead of ignoring it, then I will address this post. Otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time. I'm not interested in a one way discussion where I'm the only one addressing the other's points.

 

[Hiddenthings]

LOL. Yes, let's just ignore the context of the verse. It's typical of people like you to want to ignore context and to not want to address other's arguments. This is a big joke. No, I'm not going to go with what I know is incorrect. If you actually address what I said in my post instead of ignoring it, then I will address this post. Otherwise, I'm not going to waste my time. I'm not interested in a one way discussion where I'm the only one addressing the other's points.

Here is the context:

7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.

For Christ now death has no more dominion over him

Why?

10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

Past tense - already happened!

Now present tense

11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Present tense Warning!

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body (dominion!), to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Ro 6:7–14.

Now Paul wants this point to be understood so he repeats it again!

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 6:20–23.

You have physical death = all peoples
You have eternal life = sanctified with the promise of salvation at the resurrection (raised with Christ).

Christ experienced the physical death but did no sin.

Why?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Here is the context:

7 For one who has died has been set free from sin. 8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9 We know that Christ, being raised from the dead, will never die again; death no longer has dominion over him.

For Christ now death has no more dominion over him

Why?

10 For the death he died he died to sin, once for all, but the life he lives he lives to God.

Past tense - already happened!

Now present tense

11 So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Present tense Warning!

12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body (dominion!), to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace. Ro 6:7–14.

Now Paul wants this point to be understood so he repeats it again!

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 But what fruit were you getting at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Ro 6:20–23.

You have physical death = all peoples
You have eternal life = sanctified with the promise of salvation at the resurrection (raised with Christ).

Christ experienced the physical death but did no sin.

Why?

You're still not addressing my points, so I'm done with you. You think you can just ignore my points and try to dictate the direction of the discussion while expecting me to address all your points while you ignore mine. I don't play games like that.

 

[Hiddenthings]

You're still not addressing my points, so I'm done with you. You think you can just ignore my points and try to dictate the direction of the discussion while expecting me to address all your points while you ignore mine. I don't play games like that.

I showed you the correct context and how the death which Jesus died he did so once for all.

I've left you with a simple question.

Why was it required of Jesus to die to sin once?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I showed you the correct context and how the death which Jesus died he did so once for all.

I've left you with a simple question.

Why was it required of Jesus to die to sin once?

Just stating again how you interpret it is not a case of addressing how I interpret it. You are ignoring what I said about how it should be interpreted without addressing that at all and just again sharing how you interpret it. You clearly have no idea about how discussions like this should work. I'm not wasting my time on someone who doesn't have the decency to address my points and answer my questions while at the same time expecting me to address all of his.

I showed that the context of Romans 6:23 is in relation to eternity. Eternal life is contrasted with eternal death there. But, you just ignore that and try to claim that Paul was contrasting eternal life with temporal physical death instead. You have no understanding of context whatsoever.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Just stating again how you interpret it is not a case of addressing how I interpret it. You are ignoring what I said about how it should be interpreted without addressing that at all and just again sharing how you interpret it. You clearly have no idea about how discussions like this should work. I'm not wasting my time on someone who doesn't have the decency to address my points and answer my questions while at the same time expecting me to address all of his.

You mentioned Romans 6:23 relates to the second death which has no context at all in the entire chapter. If you can't answer a simple question or you don't want to merely state that.

Death (mortality) had dominion over Jesus - do you know why? And why it was important he die to that mortality?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You mentioned Romans 6:23 relates to the second death which has no context at all in the entire chapter.

Where is eternal life mentioned before verse 22? Nowhere. So, this is a very weak argument. Paul didn't start changing the context to eternity until verse 22. Why would Paul contrast eternal life with temporal death? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Tell me, how does one gain the hope of eternal life? By believing in Jesus, right (John 3:16)?

The wages of sin refers to the penalty of sin. There is no penalty of sin for those who belong to Christ. Our physical deaths are not a penalty for our sin. The penalty of sin is eternal death, which is the second death. Only those who don't belong to Christ and don't have their names written in the book of life will experience the second death (Rev 20:14-15). So, Romans 6:23 is clearly contrasting the result of being set free from the wages/penalty of sin, which is eternal life with the eventual wages/penalty of sin that only those who have not been set free and will not have eternal life will experience, which is the second death.

If you can't answer a simple question or you don't want to merely state that.

LOL. You are the one not answering my questions and addressing the points I asked first before you asked your question. You have no idea how rude that is. How did you get to be so naive about how discussions like this should work? Address my points and/or answer my questions that I asked first and then I'll address yours.

Death (mortality) had dominion over Jesus - do you know why?

Because He had a mortal body. Why are you asking this question?

And why it was important he die to that mortality?

Without Him conquering death by rising from the dead unto bodily immortality, it would not be possible for us to also have bodily immortality. Why do you ask? Stop playing games with endless questions and make your point.

 

[Hiddenthings]

Where is eternal life mentioned before verse 22? Nowhere. So, this is a very weak argument. Paul didn't start changing the context to eternity until verse 22. Why would Paul contrast eternal life with temporal death? That makes no sense whatsoever

22 But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life. Ro 6:22.

Same exp for Jesus as for those found in him.