The Latest on Calvin
- Thread starter Rollo Tamasi
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SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
No, according to the Bible. Apparently you don’t read yours to make such an foolish and outlandish statement.
I don't strut.
If you don't wish to converse with me, you don't have to.
Do you ever wonder why all other christians dislike calvinism?
Because it changes the nature of God.
It takes away His love,
His mercy
and His justice.
If we are all depraved and deserving of a death sentence,
then that's what a just God would have determined.
Why save only some?
And based on what?
Why did God even create us?
Does He hate His creation?
And how just is He, that if HE predestinated us to be depraved, He should then punish us for it?
I serve a loving, merciful, and just God.
And yes, you carpet bomb me with verses and do not exegete the ones I give you.
How about taking one at a time?
None are justified by the law NOW because we are in the New Covenant.
But the law is good and necessary for it's how God let's us know what He expects from us so that we may follow it and be saved by obedience of faith.
Romans 1:5
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Acts of the Apostles 4:12 states ”And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved.”
Your hatred of Calvinist theology has you so unhinged you’ve leaped over into Hyper-Calvinism. They aver God saves ppl, even those who never heard the gospel, never had a bible to read, never had someone tell them about the Christ. So, you’re teaching Hyper-Calvinism.
I'm afraid, Sir, that I'm rather very serious.
IF GOD DECIDES WHO WILL BE SAVED....
WHY do we need missionary work?
Why do we need a bible?
And, indeed, why would Jesus have had to die IF God was going to choose who He wanted anyway, instead of basing His choices on OUR FAITH?
Ephesians 2:8
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
God didn’t have to save any, and yet you scoff at the notion He is beholden to all. For grace to be grace, it must be free. If God has to offer grace to everyone, it ceases to be grace, but obligation.
NO.
I'm not teaching hyper calvinism.
I'm teaching ROMANS 1:19-20
which I've already posted.
God is present in nature....all who want to know Him can.
Did the American Indian believe is God?
Did God come into being when the bible was written or did He always exist?
Please refer to Romans 1:19-20.
I don't care for personal remarks. I'm not making any to YOU.
I'm just quoting your theology.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
God has decided who will be saved. He didn’t have to save one single solitary soul, but chose a multitude of God-hating sinners, gave them to His Son, who then bore their sins on a cross. And you scoff at that!
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Yes you are preaching Hyper-Calvinism. Did the American Indians know about the Christ? No. They believed in a happy hunting ground, but they didn’t know the Christ came as a man, live a sinless life, die on a cross and resurrect three days later.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Romans 1:19-20 speaks to man’s ruined state outside of God. They can not know the Christ by natural revelation.
Mathew 5:45 JESUS SAID.
...He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good. And sends the rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
God's grace is free and is for everyone.
Without Gods grace how would anyone ever be saved?
But your theology does not teach this.
Here is what Mathew 5:45 means...AND it's from GotQuestions, so maybe you could even trust what it says:
how does God love His enemies? There are a number of ways, but in Matthew 5:45 Jesus gives two practical examples. “He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.” In that agrarian society, good weather was all-important. There are righteous farmers (who would be considered God’s friends) and unrighteous farmers (those who would be considered God’s enemies). Regardless of the farmer’s disposition toward God, God gives sunshine and rain to all the farmers in equal portion. When God gives good sunshine and good rain to an evil farmer, it’s an example of God loving His enemies. God makes no distinction between the evil and the righteous in this instance—He gives good gifts to both of them.
There will be a time of judgment in the future, but, until then, God graciously gives good things, even to those who hate Him. He gives the blessing of rain to the just and the unjust alike. Wicked people, people who mock Him and even deny His existence still get to enjoy good weather, good food, the love of family, and a great many other things.
source: What does it mean that the rain falls on the just and the unjust?
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Yes, God is good even to the reprobate. It’s called long suffering.
Again, I gave you a link that stated 3.4 BILLION out of 7.1 BILLION have never heard the gospel. No one is saved outside of it, either. Romans 1:16, 1 Corinthians 1:21, Ephesians 1:13, Acts of the Apostles 4:12, all attest to it.
You really should read Romans 1:19-20 again until you really understand what it says.
Are you saying some poor tribe in South America that never heard of Jesus but that still has some that believe in God, as in Romans, nonetheless they are going straight to hell?
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
No, the Bible does. And I agree with the Bible. How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard?[Romans 10:14b] The answer is they can’t believe in the Christ if they never heard about Him.
It states the opposite.
Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(19) The Apostle goes on to show how the Gentiles came to have such a knowledge of right, and how they repressed and contravened it.
They had it, because all the knowledge that mankind generally possessed of God they also possessed. So much as could be known without special revelation they knew.
That which may be known.—Rather, that which is (generally and universally) known—the truths of so-called “natural religion.”
Is manifest in them.—Manifest or imprinted upon their consciences, because God had so imprinted it upon them. The marginal rendering, “to them,” is hardly tenable.
Benson Commentary
Romans 1:19-20. Because that which may be known of God — Those great principles which are indispensably necessary to be known, such as his existence, his unity, his power, his wisdom, his goodness, and his righteous government of the world; is manifest in, or rather among, them — As ευ αυτοις should be here rendered: for God hath showed it to them — By the light which lightens every man that cometh into the world, John 1:9. The apostle’s assertion is confirmed by the writings of the Greek and Latin philosophers still remaining. See note on Romans 1:21. For the invisible things of him — His spiritual nature and infinite perfections, called his invisible things, partly in opposition to the heathen deities, who being all corporeal, their being and properties were things invisible; and partly because they cannot be seen, except in their effects, by men’s bodily eyes; from the creation of the world — From the visible creation, from the heavens and the earth, from the sea and dry land, from plants and animals, from men’s own bodies, fearfully and wonderfully made, and especially from their intelligent, free, and immortal minds. Or the meaning may be, Since, or, from the time of the creation of the world; for the apostle does not use the preposition εκ, by, but απο, from, or, ever since, the creation. Thus Dr. Whitby understands the expression, observing, “It seems not to signify the means by which they came to the knowledge of God, for these are afterward expressed, but rather to import, that from the beginning of the world the heathen had the means of knowing the true God from the works of creation; so απ αρχης κοσμου is, from the beginning of the world, Matthew 24:21; and απο καταβολης κοσμου from the foundation of the world, Matthew 13:35.” Are clearly seen — By the eye of the mind, being understood — They are seen by them, and them only, who use their understanding. The present tense, καθοραται, are clearly seen, denotes the continued manifestation of the being and perfections of God, by the works of creation from the beginning; agreeably to Psalm 19:1,
source: Romans 1:19 Commentaries: because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
None of your verses prove your point.
Please pick one and we'll go over it.
But a little later...
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
No, you’re the one who needs to read that again.
For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,[Romans 1:18] Paul starts off with God’s wrath, not His love. Why His wrath? because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.[Romans 1:19] God has shown them Himself through natural revelation and they did this For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened.[Romans 1:21] They took what they saw and they did not glorify Him as God, but did this, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.[Romans 1:23] They took what they saw, and gave credit of its existence to some sort of idol.
That’s the thrust of Paul’s argument in a nutshell.
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