The Liberal Agenda

[Bob Estey]

We had a liberal come to our church and speak yesterday, and it really opened my eyes to what the problem is that plagues our United Methodist Church. Here is what he wants us to believe: The Bible was written by people with agendas, and therefore you can't believe all of it. In other words, the Bible lies. He didn't use the word "lies" but he made himself clear.

My response: I believe two things: God is who he says he is, and the Bible doesn't lie. You might disagree with one or two of Paul's or Peter's opinions, but opinions aren't lies.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Perhaps the guest lecturer has an agenda?

 

[Bob Estey]

Perhaps the guest lecturer has an agenda?

Indeed. And his instructors (he is a new pastor).

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We had a liberal come to our church and speak yesterday, and it really opened my eyes to what the problem is that plagues our United Methodist Church. Here is what he wants us to believe: The Bible was written by people with agendas, and therefore you can't believe all of it. In other words, the Bible lies. He didn't use the word "lies" but he made himself clear.

My response: I believe two things: God is who he says he is, and the Bible doesn't lie. You might disagree with one or two of Paul's or Peter's opinions, but opinions aren't lies.

The little United Methodist church I was going to is strong in the Holy Spirit. They finally had to leave the denomination. It is grieving the Holy Spirit. John Wesley would be turning over in his grave.

 

[Bob Estey]

The little United Methodist church I was going to is strong in the Holy Spirit. They finally had to leave the denomination. It is grieving the Holy Spirit. John Wesley would be turning over in his grave.

Amen.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Indeed. And his instructors (he is a new pastor).

My wife and her family are Methodist and boy are the younger Priest have been shocking hopeless in the last 15years.
My father and mother in law has very much to do with running their Church and bag them Priest for being such idiots because they know nothing much at all, not to mention now their is much in fighting going on as to it's direction. The Liberals want more change away from Christ Jesus and from the Bible and are totally Gay supporting.
You may as well just be a member of the trade Union and replace the Cross and go put up a hammer and sickle out front the Church.

 

[Bob Estey]

My wife and her family are Methodist and boy are the younger Priest have been shocking hopeless in the last 15years.
My father and mother in law has very much to do with running their Church and bag them Priest for being such idiots because they know nothing much at all, not to mention now their is much in fighting going on as to it's direction. The Liberals want more change away from Christ Jesus and from the Bible and are totally Gay supporting.
You may as well just be a member of the trade Union and replace the Cross and go put up a hammer and sickle out front the Church.

Or you can stick around and fight.

 

[Nancy]

This is why I stopped going to the Methodist church near me a few months back. They turned out to be pretty liberal, and I even spoke to the pastor @1stCenturyLady . Told her about the split in your church (has to be very upsetting) and if that is happening there, she said first thing "I didn't tell anybody yet". That is when I discerned that church was going liberal. They are joining 4 different Methodist churches in that building and it will be interesting to see who stays and who goes. I won't know of course.

 

[Taken]

This is why I stopped going to the Methodist church near me a few months back. They turned out to be pretty liberal, and I even spoke to the pastor @1stCenturyLady . Told her about the split in your church (has to be very upsetting) and if that is happening there, she said first thing "I didn't tell anybody yet". That is when I discerned that church was going liberal. They are joining 4 different Methodist churches in that building and it will be interesting to see who stays and who goes. I won't know of course.

I believe DELINE in Church attendance is a big factor.
... A huge switch from Preaching the Word of God, to Preaching what people WANT to hear.

Everything can be traced back to circumstances that negatively affect and cause a snowball negative vicious cycle.
In brief...govt wants more more money, up taxation, both parents work, parents spending bulk of day away from spouse, spouses split, children raised by schools, schools X out mentioning God, children become adults, money main factor, God irrelevant, Church irrelevant, cycle established. Brainstorming Preachers, mega feel good about yourself Churches. Pews fill, everyone feels good about themselves...Cheaters, liars, thieves, all tolerable, if you feel good about yourself.

It’s a phenomena older folks not having been raised in days of split parents, God X-ed out of schools, the modern agendas of schools, and promoted free flow of sex among little children ... as normal and acceptable ... is utterly disgusting to older folks, and disturbing as to where to find a church that is still “normal”.

 

[Skovand1075]

We had a liberal come to our church and speak yesterday, and it really opened my eyes to what the problem is that plagues our United Methodist Church. Here is what he wants us to believe: The Bible was written by people with agendas, and therefore you can't believe all of it. In other words, the Bible lies. He didn't use the word "lies" but he made himself clear.

My response: I believe two things: God is who he says he is, and the Bible doesn't lie. You might disagree with one or two of Paul's or Peter's opinions, but opinions aren't lies.

That’s probably just paranoia on your part. As a liberal myself , and a Christian, and as someone who has been studying the Bible for well over a decade and have spent tons of time and money on this , I’ve not met hardly any liberal Christian’s who are out to say the Bible is a lie. I definitely don’t believe the Bible is a book of lies. I think the Bible is the inspired word of God. I just think that inspiration by the Holy Spirit was to ancient Jewish people with a ancient Jewish culture and was working with that. He was not speaking to ancient Jewish people in a way that was meant for modern English white peoples in America. So he accommodated those people within their paradigm. Most likely that’s what the speaker was saying.

so the speaker, like myself, was probably not saying the Bible is false, but is saying the Bible is probably not what the bulk of white modern American Christians think it is.

disagreeing with modern literalist who looks at the Bible through concordism is very different from seeing it through accommodations. So that’s the disagreement.

with that said this type of thing pops up so much. I’m not going to debate or respond to anything. It’s not necessary. Just wanted to toss that out there and I’m bouncing from the convo.

 

[Cassandra]

. As a liberal myself , and a Christian, and as someone who has been studying the Bible for well over a decade and have spent tons of time and money on this , I’ve not met hardly any liberal Christian’s who are out to say the Bible is a lie.

I'm in the same group as you.

 

[Bob Estey]

That’s probably just paranoia on your part. As a liberal myself , and a Christian, and as someone who has been studying the Bible for well over a decade and have spent tons of time and money on this , I’ve not met hardly any liberal Christian’s who are out to say the Bible is a lie. I definitely don’t believe the Bible is a book of lies. I think the Bible is the inspired word of God. I just think that inspiration by the Holy Spirit was to ancient Jewish people with a ancient Jewish culture and was working with that. He was not speaking to ancient Jewish people in a way that was meant for modern English white peoples in America. So he accommodated those people within their paradigm. Most likely that’s what the speaker was saying.

so the speaker, like myself, was probably not saying the Bible is false, but is saying the Bible is probably not what the bulk of white modern American Christians think it is.

disagreeing with modern literalist who looks at the Bible through concordism is very different from seeing it through accommodations. So that’s the disagreement.

with that said this type of thing pops up so much. I’m not going to debate or respond to anything. It’s not necessary. Just wanted to toss that out there and I’m bouncing from the convo.

No, I don't like it when a pastor stands in front of us on Sunday morning, ridicules me for believing the Bible, telling me there is nothing wrong with homosexuality, and if I don't believe him, then I need to change. That gets tiring after awhile.

 

[Rita]

That’s probably just paranoia on your part. As a liberal myself , and a Christian, and as someone who has been studying the Bible for well over a decade and have spent tons of time and money on this , I’ve not met hardly any liberal Christian’s who are out to say the Bible is a lie. I definitely don’t believe the Bible is a book of lies. I think the Bible is the inspired word of God. I just think that inspiration by the Holy Spirit was to ancient Jewish people with a ancient Jewish culture and was working with that. He was not speaking to ancient Jewish people in a way that was meant for modern English white peoples in America. So he accommodated those people within their paradigm. Most likely that’s what the speaker was saying.

so the speaker, like myself, was probably not saying the Bible is false, but is saying the Bible is probably not what the bulk of white modern American Christians think it is.

disagreeing with modern literalist who looks at the Bible through concordism is very different from seeing it through accommodations. So that’s the disagreement.

with that said this type of thing pops up so much. I’m not going to debate or respond to anything. It’s not necessary. Just wanted to toss that out there and I’m bouncing from the convo.

I am just curious, but why do you use ‘ modern white American people ‘ and presume that this was the audience in which he was speaking………or presume that other ethnic groups were not being addressed as well, or don’t they allow other groups to worship In the Methodist church in the US ?
That phrase just kind of stood out as I was reading, you also stated ‘ modern English white people in America ‘
Why the distinction ? Why not just say ‘ modern English speaking people ‘ !?

 

[Enoch111]

We had a liberal come to our church and speak yesterday, and it really opened my eyes to what the problem is that plagues our United Methodist Church.

Why do you continue to remain in this liberal denomination?

 

[Skovand1075]

I am just curious, but why do you use ‘ modern white American people ‘ and presume that this was the audience in which he was speaking………or presume that other ethnic groups were not being addressed as well, or don’t they allow other groups to worship In the Methodist church in the US ?
That phrase just kind of stood out as I was reading, you also stated ‘ modern English white people in America ‘
Why the distinction ? Why not just say ‘ modern English speaking people ‘ !?

I am just curious, but why do you use ‘ modern white American people ‘ and presume that this was the audience in which he was speaking………or presume that other ethnic groups were not being addressed as well, or don’t they allow other groups to worship In the Methodist church in the US ?
That phrase just kind of stood out as I was reading, you also stated ‘ modern English white people in America ‘
Why the distinction ? Why not just say ‘ modern English speaking people ‘ !?

I am just curious, but why do you use ‘ modern white American people ‘ and presume that this was the audience in which he was speaking………or presume that other ethnic groups were not being addressed as well, or don’t they allow other groups to worship In the Methodist church in the US ?
That phrase just kind of stood out as I was reading, you also stated ‘ modern English white people in America ‘
Why the distinction ? Why not just say ‘ modern English speaking people ‘ !?

im not presuming. Im responding to the guy who asked the question. What im doing is highlighting the fact he’s a modern white American, and so he may look at the Bible very differently from Jewish men in Israel thousands of years ago. A completely different era, race, culture and worldview. Very different world. The bulk of modern scholarship is liberal. They work hard on digging out the ancient cultures. Studying what did it mean to them.

for example, when it says earth or whole world to the ancient Jewish man it’s very different from what we call earth. We think of earth as a globe seen from the satellite. They did not. Ancient Jewish people thought the world was a disc like circle. When we think of the sun, we think of this massive burning ball in the sky that we revolve around. Ancient Jewish people think of a light that angels pulled across the sky that was a fraction of the size of earth. After all from earth, it looks tiny. They had no idea it was huge but 8 light minutes away roughly. So liberal Christians work on accenting and presenting the tanakh through the lens of ancient Jewish people so that those who don’t know about that culture, or about that language, can get a better understanding of it. Concordism does not accurately showcase the story of the Bible.

 

[Rita]

im not presuming. Im responding to the guy who asked the question. What im doing is highlighting the fact he’s a modern white American, and so he may look at the Bible very differently from Jewish men in Israel thousands of years ago. A completely different era, race, culture and worldview. Very different world. The bulk of modern scholarship is liberal. They work hard on digging out the ancient cultures. Studying what did it mean to them.

for example, when it says earth or whole world to the ancient Jewish man it’s very different from what we call earth. We think of earth as a globe seen from the satellite. They did not. Ancient Jewish people thought the world was a disc like circle. When we think of the sun, we think of this massive burning ball in the sky that we revolve around. Ancient Jewish people think of a light that angels pulled across the sky that was a fraction of the size of earth. After all from earth, it looks tiny. They had no idea it was huge but 8 light minutes away roughly. So liberal Christians work on accenting and presenting the tanakh through the lens of ancient Jewish people so that those who don’t know about that culture, or about that language, can get a better understanding of it. Concordism does not accurately showcase the story of the Bible.

Thanks for explaining and that makes sense now, kind of worried me there for a moment !! Lol

 

[Bob Estey]

Why do you continue to remain in this liberal denomination?

It isn't liberal - there is a war going on between the liberals and conservatives. I'd rather fight than run.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This is why I stopped going to the Methodist church near me a few months back. They turned out to be pretty liberal, and I even spoke to the pastor @1stCenturyLady . Told her about the split in your church (has to be very upsetting) and if that is happening there, she said first thing "I didn't tell anybody yet". That is when I discerned that church was going liberal. They are joining 4 different Methodist churches in that building and it will be interesting to see who stays and who goes. I won't know of course.

Its the liberal congregations who should be leaving the holiness denomination that John Wesley started. He certainly wouldn't approve of their ungodliness.

cc: @Bob Estey