The "like manner" of Acts 1:9-11

[VictoryinJesus]

No, it is an angel as captain of the host (army) of the Lord, being in the order of the angels.
2 Thessalonian 1:7 calls them as "mighty angels".

it says “there stood a man”. But I’m not saying you are wrong. Maybe it was an angel.

 

[Earburner]

yes they were afraid of the Jews, hiding behind shut doors for fear of what men could do to them. Then He is in standing in the midst of them. Could say He was foreshadowing what He would do to a fearful heart, walking through shut doors without anyone opening the door and standing in the midst of them. look at how they went from the spirit of fear before the Holy Spirit entered in and He stands is in the midst, everything changed. 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


His walking through shut doors doesn't really prove it (IMO) but is about as much speculation as what I suggested.



Did Paul open the door and invite Him in? Pretty much got set with his face to the ground.

Yes, just in that event alone, we see Paul in repentance towards the Lord.
[6] And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?

 

[Earburner]

it says “there stood a man”. But I’m not saying you are wrong. Maybe it was an angel.

In the days of Lot in Sodom and Gamorah, angels that looked like men spoke him, and he them.
We must never assume that which is spirit cannot be flesh! We barely know enough to say it can't be done!! The biblical evidence shows that does happen. BUt as to a NEW creation of Immortality?
That is ONLY Christ and no one else!

 

[Earburner]

1. Yes they were afraid of the Jews, hiding behind shut doors for fear of what men could do to them. Then He is in standing in the midst of them. Could say He was foreshadowing what He would do to a fearful heart, walking through shut doors without anyone opening the door and standing in the midst of them. look at how they went from the spirit of fear before the Holy Spirit entered in and He stands is in the midst, everything changed. 2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

2. His walking through shut doors doesn't really prove it (IMO) but is about as much speculation as what I suggested.

3. Did Paul open the door and invite Him in? Pretty much got set with his face to the ground.

1. Yes I can see the spiritual value in your comment,
BUT, what was the immediate point did Jesus wanted them to understand?
Ans. HE had been delivered from death, and was in His NEW IMMORTAL BODY, and was NOT a spirit.

2. We could speculate about how Jesus entered the room in many ways, however the fact remains that the doors were shut, for fear of the Jews coming after them. With such a mind set, no one leaves the doors open for anyone to just walk in,
John 20[19] Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[20] And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then that event took place again with Thomas, 8 days later. Again, the focus was on Jesus and His NEW and Immortal body, and not what we shall speculate or spiritualize.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1. Yes I can see the spiritual value in your comment,
BUT, what was the immediate point did Jesus wanted them to understand?
Ans. HE had been delivered from death, and was in His NEW IMMORTAL BODY, and was NOT a spirit.

2. We could speculate about how Jesus entered the room in many ways, however the fact remains that the doors were shut, for fear of the Jews coming after them. With such a mind set, no one leaves the doors open for anyone to just walk in,
John 20[19] Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[20] And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then that event took place again with Thomas, 8 days later. Again, the focus was on Jesus and His NEW and Immortal body, and not what we shall speculate or spiritualize.

I get it. I’m not against His having a body. Just have no idea what that looks like. There is a lot there that confuses me. Romans 8:21 Is an example: Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
Meaning that which was in the bondage of corruption shall be delivered. Speaking of the body but also the earth...is it not the same earth which was in the bondage of corruption to be delivered in “a New Heaven and New earth.” Same as Jerusalem delivered from the bondage of corruption and God reveals (unveils) New Jerusalem above which is free. But at the same time, sometimes I think we reduce “His glory” into some glowing outward “blinding” beauty when I’m not convinced that Is His glory or His “perfection”at all to be restored within His body but a better “perfect”.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

1. Yes I can see the spiritual value in your comment,
BUT, what was the immediate point did Jesus wanted them to understand?
Ans. HE had been delivered from death, and was in His NEW IMMORTAL BODY, and was NOT a spirit.

2. We could speculate about how Jesus entered the room in many ways, however the fact remains that the doors were shut, for fear of the Jews coming after them. With such a mind set, no one leaves the doors open for anyone to just walk in,
John 20[19] Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
[20] And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Then that event took place again with Thomas, 8 days later. Again, the focus was on Jesus and His NEW and Immortal body, and not what we shall speculate or spiritualize.

One last thought. How much we make what He said and did validate our own thoughts concerning “His body”. But consider Luke 22:18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come.

Is that His validation He will drink wine when the kingdom of God shall come. Some proof we all will have physical bodies Within the kingdom of God which require drinking to sustain the body? of course not...He is speaking of drinking of a higher more sustaining drink “the fruit of the vine.”
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

[ScottA]

thank you. One last question as this has always been confusing to me. Is “the body of sins” the same as flesh? I ask because someone Once said I always make like flesh is evil when it is sin which is evil. Psalm 63:1 O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Like Christ being slain before the foundation of the world and then manifest in the fullness of time, all things both good and evil are manifest from their origin in the heavenly realm before the world began. So, it is not the flesh per se, because all that is manifest of the elements of this world is "vanity", meaning "nothing." But that "body of sin" and that "man of sin" in scripture is portrayed/revealed in the contrast of what is natural (including the flesh) and what is spiritual: "the spiritual is not first, but the natural, and afterward the spiritual."

For this reason Jesus referred even to Israel as Satan being their father, and why we must be born again of the spirit of God; and why Paul referred to the "old man" and the "new man", the old being flesh and the new being born of the spirit of God.

It is by these passages that we can know that what is to come and has come, is only spiritual. It is also these passages that those who cling to the flesh, cannot reconcile with those half-truths they quote.

 

[Steve Owen]

Now it seems reasonable to determine that the acts of God whom [sic] is spirit would in "like manner", be spiritual or in spirit.

Everything God does is 'spriritual' but when our Lord ascended to heaven it was in a body that was 'Flesh and bones' (Luke 24:39). We are told that our Lord will return in 'like manner' to the way He left.

1. He left in a body; He will return in that same body. His departure was physical; so will His return be.
2. His departure was seen by witnesses (Acts of the Apostles 1:9); His return will be seen by witnesses (Revelation 1:7).
3. Clouds closed over Him to obscure His departure; clouds will part to reveal Him.

Therefore, invisible returns, however convenient they may be to boost certain eschatological theories, are excluded.

 

[ScottA]

Scott, you must quote the whole scripture in context, otherwise you are just cutting and then pasting as you like, in order to sell your fabrication.
Acts 1[10] And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;
[11] Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

As it is written, the verse speaks far differently, than what you are selling.

No, I explained that, as did Jesus who said that the spirit cannot be seen. But I have reconciled both truths and explained, while you continue to contradict Christ, saying that they saw the spirit--which they did not, nor could they.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

as did Jesus who said that the spirit cannot be seen.

Seen, revealed, made manifest ...is it not the same?
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Are “their fruits” not seen, revealed, made manifest...

Luke 17:20-23 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: [21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. [22] And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. [23] And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

 

[ScottA]

Everything God does is 'spriritual' but when our Lord ascended to heaven it was in a body that was 'Flesh and bones' (Luke 24:39). We are told that our Lord will return in 'like manner' to the way He left.

1. He left in a body; He will return in that same body. His departure was physical; so will His return be.
2. His departure was seen by witnesses (Acts of the Apostles 1:9); His return will be seen by witnesses (Revelation 1:7).
3. Clouds closed over Him to obscure His departure; clouds will part to reveal Him.

Therefore, invisible returns, however convenient they may be to boost certain eschatological theories, are excluded.

No, you make the same assumptions that have been made for thousands of years, believing only a part of what is written while contradicting the rest, and not reconciling all truth.

"Flesh and bones", as it is with all the elements of this world are destine to be "destroyed with fervent heat and with fire." Such elements "return to the dust" and are destroyed, and only "the spirit returns to God who gave it."

You have not reconciled all the scriptures.

 

[ScottA]

Seen, revealed, made manifest ...is it not the same?
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Are “their fruits” not seen, revealed, made manifest...

Luke 17:20-23 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: [21] Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. [22] And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it. [23] And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

Hebrews 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Yes, they are the same. All that is made manifest is temporal/for a time/finite.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He left in a body; He will return in that same body.

entered into His body; He will in that ‘same body’ return. Agree.

Clouds closed over Him to obscure His departure; clouds will part to reveal Him.

clouds will part to reveal Him. Agree again.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, they are the same. All that is made manifest is temporal/for a time/finite.

except His fruits. Which increase and remain.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, they are the same. All that is made manifest is temporal/for a time/finite.

Philippians 3:20-21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

not disagreeing with you...but still He gives strength to the weaker vessel...as being “heirs together of the grace of life” 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.


Matthew 26:41 watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

 

[ScottA]

except His fruits. Which increase and remain.

Yes, which distinction is not complete and even greatly misunderstood, without clarifying that "fruits" are of the "Spirit" and spirit.

 

[ScottA]

Philippians 3:20-21 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: [21] Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

not disagreeing with you...but still He gives strength to the weaker vessel...as being “heirs together of the grace of life” 1 Peter 3:7 Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.


Matthew 26:41 watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

That is the problem with language having been confounded by God. Some read such passages and become blind to all of what is also written that should clarify what is meant, that it is not a contradiction that can be taken up against other passages. That same practice is used by those who do not believe.

So, then, Paul who also clarified the likeness of different bodies in natural things for the sake of example, did not mean that flesh inherits the kingdom of God, for he clearly states that it does not. Therefore, that "glorious body" is not a "glorified flesh body", but is spirit as God is spirit. And just as some confuse Jesus rising from the dead in the flesh with His ascension into the heaven of God, rather than reading and hearing that through Christ we can do all things...even in the flesh, some turn the whole passage into a half truth and another gospel, including things that are not written and do not agree with the whole of scripture. Which they do without reconciling all truth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Yes, which distinction is not complete and even greatly misunderstood, without clarifying that "fruits" are of the "Spirit" and spirit.

The fruits of God manifested to destroy the works of devil.
for this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Is He not still manifesting the Children of God, that he might destroy the works of the devil?
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Disagree there is no more waiting of the Lord as God is still manifesting the Sons of God, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:8-11 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. [11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

flesh inherits the kingdom of God, for he clearly states that it does not.

]

The incorruptible does not inherit corruption. 1 Corinthians 3:21-2 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; [22] Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; [23] And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

 

[ScottA]

The fruits of God manifested to destroy the works of devil.
for this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Is He not still manifesting the Children of God, that he might destroy the works of the devil?
Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
Disagree there is no more waiting of the Lord as God is still manifesting the Sons of God, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1 John 3:8-11 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. [9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. [10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother. [11] For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.

Yes, all is manifest for that purpose. Each in his own order (time), until the end. Which is to say, that what is man-ifest shall come to pass, but that which is born of God and of His spirit, is forever.