The "like manner" of Acts 1:9-11

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Earburner said:
Did you want to think that God the Father GAVE His Son to us, for only the one day of His Crucifixion?[/Quote\]

Jesus Christ who is the Only Begotten Son of God was sent to us not only to help us know his Father and God but was sent to us as a human being in the likeness of the first Adam. This means Jesus was sent to us as a perfect human being like Adam before he sinned. Then in this state of a perfect human being by maintaining his perfection by never sinning he was put to death. By willingly sacrificing his perfect human body he bought back mankind. Jesus didn't take back that sacrifice. He loved mankind so much he was willing to sacrifice that human body. Jesus was resurrected a powerful spiritual being who was rewarded with immortality and inherited incorruption. As I said the Gospel of Mark chapter 16 verse 12 shows that Jesus was no longer human but as the scriptures show us he was resurrected a spiritual person who could take the shape of a body that looked human.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus didn't take back that sacrifice. He loved mankind so much he was willing to sacrifice that human body. Jesus was resurrected a powerful spiritual being who was rewarded with immortality and inherited incorruption.

Seems to me that Jesus is better off if He is now a spirit-being without human limitations. And that is no sacrifice.

As I said the Gospel of Mark chapter 16 verse 12 shows that Jesus was no longer human

That verse does not say that explicitly; you have added your eisegetical understanding to it (you are reading into the verse what isn't there).

 

[Earburner]

Earburner said:
Did you want to think that God the Father GAVE His Son to us, for only the one day of His Crucifixion?[/Quote\]

1. Jesus Christ who is the Only Begotten Son of God was sent to us not only to help us know his Father and God but was sent to us as a human being in the likeness of the first Adam. This means Jesus was sent to us as a perfect human being like Adam before he sinned. Then in this state of a perfect human being by maintaining his perfection by never sinning he was put to death. By willingly sacrificing his perfect human body he bought back mankind. Jesus didn't take back that sacrifice. He loved mankind so much he was willing to sacrifice that human body.

2. Jesus was resurrected a powerful spiritual being who was rewarded with immortality and inherited incorruption. As I said the Gospel of Mark chapter 16 verse 12 shows that Jesus was no longer human but as the scriptures show us he was resurrected a spiritual person who could take the shape of a body that looked human.

1. NO! HE loved man so much that He has PERMANENTLY taken on our form of "flesh and bone", which is "quickened" by the Spirit of God the Father, who "is a spirit". In that form of our being, but now Immortal, is what He will now ALWAYS BE. THAT IS the Sacrifice of both God the Father and His Son, who is God Himself. KJV- John 1:1, 14.
No longer is Jesus ONLY God the Son in Spirit, He is now become The God/man of flesh and bone, with His Spirit.
No man shall see God the Father at anytime, even after our resurrection into His immortality.
Heb. 1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

2. You mean a powerful spiritual person, in the form of His resurrected, immortal body of "flesh and bone" and Spirit. Otherwise His event of Sacrifice and Resurrection is nothing but words on paper, and has gone back to being a spirit, whereby no man shall see Him and His Son at anytime.

Earburner said:
Did you want to think that God the Father GAVE His Son to us, for only the one day of His Crucifixion?[/Quote\]
3. Jesus Christ who is the Only Begotten Son of God was sent to us not only to help us know his Father and God but was sent to us as a human being in the likeness of the first Adam. This means Jesus was sent to us as a perfect human being like Adam before he sinned. Then in this state of a perfect human being by maintaining his perfection by never sinning he was put to death. By willingly sacrificing his perfect human body he bought back mankind. Jesus didn't take back that sacrifice. He loved mankind so much he was willing to sacrifice that human body.

4. Jesus was resurrected a powerful spiritual being who was rewarded with immortality and inherited incorruption. As I said the Gospel of Mark chapter 16 verse 12 shows that Jesus was no longer human but as the scriptures show us he was resurrected a spiritual person who could take the shape of a body that looked human.

3. NO!! The Sacrifice for Both the Father and the Son, is Jesus shall remain in the Glory of His Resurrected Immortal body of "flesh and bone", because ONLY HE, who is God the Son, was made to be flesh and blood in human form, being the express image of God, who is a spirit. Jesus, who was only spirit, by his physical Resurrection, is NOW " flesh and bone" and Spirit!, and always will be.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Justbyfaith said: Jesus did indeed raise Himself (John 10:17-18)

1. NO! HE loved man so much that He has PERMANENTLY taken on our form of "flesh and bone", which is "quickened" by the Spirit of God the Father, who "is a spirit". In that form of our being, but now Immortal, is what He will now ALWAYS BE. THAT IS the Sacrifice of both God the Father and His Son, who is God Himself. KJV- John 1:1, 14.
No longer is Jesus ONLY God the Son in Spirit, He is now become The God/man of flesh and bone, with His Spirit.
No man shall see God the Father at anytime, even after our resurrection into His immortality.
Heb. 1
[1] God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
[2] Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[3] Who being the brightness of his glory, and the EXPRESS image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

2. You mean a powerful spiritual person, in the form of His resurrected, immortal body of "flesh and bone" and Spirit. Otherwise His event of Sacrifice and Resurrection is nothing but words on paper, and has gone back to being a spirit, whereby no man shall see Him and His Son at anytime.



3. NO!! The Sacrifice for Both the Father and the Son, is Jesus shall remain in the Glory of His Resurrected Immortal body of "flesh and bone", because ONLY HE, who is God the Son, was made to be flesh and blood in human form, being the express image of God, who is a spirit. Jesus, who was only spirit, by his physical Resurrection, is NOW " flesh and bone" and Spirit!, and always will be.

No! Today Jesus is a powerful spiritual being who is immortal and is incorruptible. The scriptures show that after Jesus was resurrected he changed into different bodies when to talked to his Apostles and disciples. The scriptures have this written down. You want to deny the scriptures so be it, I'm not.

 

[Earburner]

Justbyfaith said: Jesus did indeed raise Himself (John 10:17-18)


No! Today Jesus is a powerful spiritual being who is immortal and is incorruptible. The scriptures show that after Jesus was resurrected he changed into different bodies when to talked to his Apostles and disciples. The scriptures have this written down. You want to deny the scriptures so be it, I'm not.

Earburner's reply:
No! Today Jesus is a powerful spiritual being who is immortal and is incorruptible. The scriptures show that after Jesus was resurrected he changed into different bodies when to talked to his Apostles and disciples. The scriptures have this written down. You want to deny the scriptures so be it, I'm not.[/QUOTE]
In the combined parables of Matthew 13:45-47,
WE are the "pearl/treasure/field- of great price".
Jesus is the "merchant man", who sold everything that HE OWNED, even His original state of Being, as revealed in John 1:1, 14.
KJV- Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth [traded] all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold [traded] all that he had, and bought it.
> Now consider this, of all that He had:
John 1[18] No man hath seen God at any time; [except] the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Matthew 11[27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
The price that Christ paid for us, was by His Blood, but also the fact that His Being was changed from only being Spirit, as the Father, to our form of "flesh and bone", but with His Spirit, which brought forth
a new creature/creation, being Himself the Firstborn from the dead!

 

[Earburner]

CORRECTION to the above post:
Barney's reply:
No! Today Jesus is a powerful spiritual being who is immortal and is incorruptible. The scriptures show that after Jesus was resurrected he changed into different bodies when to talked to his Apostles and disciples. The scriptures have this written down. You want to deny the scriptures so be it, I'm not.[/QUOTE]
Earburner's Reply:
In the combined parables of Matthew 13:45-47,
WE are the "pearl/treasure/field- of great price".
Jesus is the "merchant man", who sold everything that HE OWNED, even His original state of Being, as revealed in John 1:1, 14.
KJV- Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth [traded] all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold [traded] all that he had, and bought it.
> Now consider this, of all that He had:
John 1[18] No man hath seen God at any time; [except] the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Matthew 11[27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
The price that Christ paid for us, was by His Blood, but also the fact that His Being was changed from only being Spirit, as the Father, to our form of "flesh and bone", but with His Spirit, which brought forth
a new creature/creation, being Himself the Firstborn from the dead!

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Earburner's reply:
No! Today Jesus is a powerful spiritual being who is immortal and is incorruptible. The scriptures show that after Jesus was resurrected he changed into different bodies when to talked to his Apostles and disciples. The scriptures have this written down. You want to deny the scriptures so be it, I'm not.

In the combined parables of Matthew 13:45-47,
WE are the "pearl/treasure/field- of great price".
Jesus is the "merchant man", who sold everything that HE OWNED, even His original state of Being, as revealed in John 1:1, 14.
KJV- Mat. 13[44] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth [traded] all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
[45] Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:
[46] Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold [traded] all that he had, and bought it.
> Now consider this, of all that He had:
John 1[18] No man hath seen God at any time; [except] the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Matthew 11[27] All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
The price that Christ paid for us, was by His Blood, but also the fact that His Being was changed from only being Spirit, as the Father, to our form of "flesh and bone", but with His Spirit, which brought forth
a new creature/creation, being Himself the Firstborn from the dead![/QUOTE]

Mark 16:12, I will not ignore this Scripture. It helps me to understand that Jesus appeared to his Apostles and disciples in different bodies. Jesus was a spiritual being who could change into a body that looked similar to a human being to his Apostles and disciples. If you want to ignor this Scripture, so be it, I'm not. Jesus willingly sacrificed his human body so that mankind could be saved. When Jesus was resurrected he was resurrected as a powerful spiritual being who was rewarded with immortality and who inherited incorruption. He was neither immortal nor incorruptible while as a human on earth before he died and was resurrected.

 

[justbyfaith]

1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Doctrine indicates our confession...and we should ask ourselves the question of whether the doctrine of @BARNEY BRIGHT and others here indicates that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh...or whether it confesseth it not.

 

[Earburner]

1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Doctrine indicates our confession...and we should ask ourselves the question of whether the doctrine of @BARNEY BRIGHT and others here indicates that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh...or whether it confesseth it not.

Very good point!
The KJV speaks of the "flesh" of Christ in the present tense. Though He was born of "flesh and blood", in the likeness of our sinful flesh, and then shed His blood, He Resurrected into NEW Life, which IS now sustained not by blood, but rather by The Spirit of God.
By that viewpoint, I can see how those who are of the "natural man" see His NEW resurrected Life, being "flesh and bone", as lunacy.

For those who do not see that His flesh is now made Alive by His Spirit, its easy for them to accept the false concept that Christ Resurrected being ONLY as "a spirit". In that estimation, Jesus to them is only equal to an angel, specifically Michael the Archangel.

But as to the angelic realm, including Michael, they are a created order of spirit beings themselves, which is not the case for Jesus.

Jesus is the Word of God made flesh, and therefore he was always with God and IS GOD, as written in KJV- John 1:1 and John 1:14, beng verified in the words "us" and "our" in Genesis 1:26
[26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.
Angels, including Michael the Archangel, are not able to create or procreate life in any way.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

1Jo 4:1, Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1Jo 4:2, Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3, And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7, For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Doctrine indicates our confession...and we should ask ourselves the question of whether the doctrine of @BARNEY BRIGHT and others here indicates that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh...or whether it confesseth it not.

I believe justbyfaith and others like him deny what the scriptures say about Jesus, because the scriptures say Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. I believe Justbyfaith and others like him deny it's the Only Begotten Son of God who is the Word who was with God in the beginning; that justbyfaith and others like him that deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God that became flesh and lived among us and who died for us and that it was The Only True God YHWH (Jehovah) who is the father and God of Jesus that resurrected Jesus 3 days after his death. Those who can't confess Jesus being The Only Begotten Son of God coming in the flesh doesn't have God Holy Spirit so don't and can't exercise faith in this truth.
Don't take my word for it, ask justbyfaith yourselves if he believes it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh and came to us and died for us or if he believes it it was God who is the Word and believes it was God who became flesh. Anyone who believes like justbyfaith is listening to and spreading an antichrist doctrine. It's justbyfaith and others who agree with him that deny Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God who came in the flesh who died for mankind and who was resurrected by God three days later, not I. So yes every individual on the planet has to decide who is spreading a Antichrist doctrine. I know what I believe, I believe John 3:16. It doesn't say for me to believe that God sent himself to the world but that God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world. People like justbyfaith and those who agree with him I believe twist this Scripture at John 3:16 to get people to believe it was God who became flesh and therefore they are teaching it wasn't the Only Begotten Son of God who was sent to mankind or who died for mankind.

 

[Earburner]

I believe justbyfaith and others like him deny what the scriptures say about Jesus, because the scriptures say Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God. I believe Justbyfaith and others like him deny it's the Only Begotten Son of God who is the Word who was with God in the beginning; that justbyfaith and others like him that deny it was the Only Begotten Son of God that became flesh and lived among us and who died for us and that it was The Only True God YHWH (Jehovah) who is the father and God of Jesus that resurrected Jesus 3 days after his death. Those who can't confess Jesus being The Only Begotten Son of God coming in the flesh doesn't have God Holy Spirit so don't and can't exercise faith in this truth.
Don't take my word for it, ask justbyfaith yourselves if he believes it was the Only Begotten Son of God who became flesh and came to us and died for us or if he believes it it was God who is the Word and believes it was God who became flesh. Anyone who believes like justbyfaith is listening to and spreading an antichrist doctrine. It's justbyfaith and others who agree with him that deny Jesus is the Only Begotten Son of God who came in the flesh who died for mankind and who was resurrected by God three days later, not I. So yes every individual on the planet has to decide who is spreading a Antichrist doctrine. I know what I believe, I believe John 3:16. It doesn't say for me to believe that God sent himself to the world but that God sent his Only Begotten Son to the world. People like justbyfaith and those who agree with him I believe twist this Scripture at John 3:16 to get people to believe it was God who became flesh and therefore they are teaching it wasn't the Only Begotten Son of God who was sent to mankind or who died for mankind.

KJV- John 8[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

KJV- John 8[58] Jesus said unto them, Verily,verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Yes, this is an example of what I'm saying, you dare not keep this Scripture in context or do any kind of research that shows that Jesus was not in any way referring to the "I AM" in Exodus 3:14.

Jesus spoke to those Jews, in the Hebrew of his day, not in Greek. How Jesus said John 8:58 to the Jews is therefore presented to us in the modern translations by Hebrew scholars who translated the Greek into the Bible Hebrew, as follows: Dr. Franz Delitzsch: “Before Abraham was, I have been.” Isaac Salkinson and David Ginsburg: “I have been when there had as yet been no Abraham.” In both of these Hebrew translations the translators use for the expression “I have been” two Hebrew words, both a pronoun and a verb, namely, aní hayíthi; they do not use the one Hebrew word: Ehyéh, which was translated "I AM THAT I AM" at Exodus 3:14 So they do not make out that in John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was Jehovah, the I AM.
Of course I don't expect you to believe any of this, cause you and those like you don't have God Holy Spirit, so you can't exercise faith that it is The Only Begotten Son of God who is the word, who became flesh and who died for mankind and God resurrected him three days after his death. Those who deny that the Only Begotten Son of God became flesh and teaches others to believe the same is teaching and spreading a Antichrist Doctrine.

 

[Earburner]

Yes, this is an example of what I'm saying, you dare not keep this Scripture in context or do any kind of research that shows that Jesus was not in any way referring to the "I AM" in Exodus 3:14.

Jesus spoke to those Jews, in the Hebrew of his day, not in Greek. How Jesus said John 8:58 to the Jews is therefore presented to us in the modern translations by Hebrew scholars who translated the Greek into the Bible Hebrew, as follows: Dr. Franz Delitzsch: “Before Abraham was, I have been.” Isaac Salkinson and David Ginsburg: “I have been when there had as yet been no Abraham.” In both of these Hebrew translations the translators use for the expression “I have been” two Hebrew words, both a pronoun and a verb, namely, aní hayíthi; they do not use the one Hebrew word: Ehyéh, which was translated "I AM THAT I AM" at Exodus 3:14 So they do not make out that in John 8:58 Jesus was trying to imitate Jehovah God and give us the impression that he himself was Jehovah, the I AM.
Of course I don't expect you to believe any of this, cause you and those like you don't have God Holy Spirit, so you can't exercise faith that it is The Only Begotten Son of God who is the word, who became flesh and who died for mankind and God resurrected him three days after his death. Those who deny that the Only Begotten Son of God became flesh and teaches others to believe the same is teaching and spreading a Antichrist Doctrine.

So then, if Jesus was, as you quote: "Before Abraham, I have been", HOW was it that He has been, before Abraham came into existence?

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

So then, if Jesus was, as you quote: "Before Abraham, I have been", HOW was it that He has been, before Abraham came into existence?

God's Only Begotten Son is just that, his Only Begotten Son. That means God's Only Begotten Son was the very first person and first of God's creations that was brought into existence. Everything and everyone else was created through and for God's Only Begotten Son. The Only Begotten Son is said to be the firstborn of creation. The phrase, "firstborn of" is used about 30 times before being used at Colossians 1:15. Every time this phrase is used regarding humans or animals in Scripture, what is said to be "firstborn of" is part of the group. What I mean is that when a Scripture uses the phrase, "firstborn of Egypt" it's talking about people in that nation called Egypt. When the phrase, "firstborn of Israel" is used in Scripture it's talking about people in that nation called Israel. When Scripture says, "firstborn of sheep" it's talking about sheep in a flock of sheep. So since the scriptures show consistently when using the phrase, "firstborn of" in regards to animals or humans being part of that group that it's firstborn of, then that means since the Only Begotten Son of God is said to be "firstborn of creation" then to be consistent with how Scripture uses this phrase, "firstborn of" The Only Begotten Son of God is part of creation. You can say that Jesus is superior to those in creation and that's true but according to how the scriptures uses the phrase, "firstborn of" in regards to animals and humans the Only Begotten Son of God is still part of creation. The Only person who isn't part of creation is The Only True God YHWH (Jehovah) who is the father and God of The Only Begotten Son of God.

 

[Earburner]

God's Only Begotten Son is just that, his Only Begotten Son. That means God's Only Begotten Son was the very first person and first of God's creations that was brought into existence.

Everything and everyone else was created through and for God's Only Begotten Son. The Only Begotten Son is said to be the firstborn of creation. The phrase, "firstborn of" is used about 30 times before being used at Colossians 1:15. Every time this phrase is used regarding humans or animals in Scripture, what is said to be "firstborn of" is part of the group. What I mean is that when a Scripture uses the phrase, "firstborn of Egypt" it's talking about people in that nation called Egypt. When the phrase, "firstborn of Israel" is used in Scripture it's talking about people in that nation called Israel. When Scripture says, "firstborn of sheep" it's talking about sheep in a flock of sheep.

So since the scriptures show consistently when using the phrase, "firstborn of" in regards to animals or humans being part of that group that it's firstborn of, then that means since the Only Begotten Son of God is said to be "firstborn of creation" then to be consistent with how Scripture uses this phrase, "firstborn of" The Only Begotten Son of God is part of creation.
You can say that Jesus is superior to those in creation and that's true but according to how the scriptures uses the phrase, "firstborn of" in regards to animals and humans the Only Begotten Son of God is still part of creation.
The Only person who isn't part of creation is The Only True God YHWH (Jehovah) who is the father and God of The Only Begotten Son of God.

Jesus, being the Begotten of God the Father, means The Father Himself brought Jesus forth FROM HIMSELF, being that which IS OF His Holy Spirit, and of no other source.

Jesus was not created like that of an angel, a spirit which was a creation MADE BY the Spirit of God.

Nor was Jesus origin like that of man, a creation from the elements of the earth, breathing the elements of the air, primarily oxygen.

So, in perceiving the origin of Jesus, I cannot say that He was firstborn of the creation, but I can say that He was brought forth from the Father before the creation, meaning before the foundation of the world. John 17:24 and Ephesians 1:4

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Jesus, being the Begotten of God the Father, means The Father Himself brought Jesus forth FROM HIMSELF, being that which IS OF His Holy Spirit, and of no other source.

Jesus was not created like that of an angel, a spirit which was a creation MADE BY the Spirit of God.

Nor was Jesus origin like that of man, a creation from the elements of the earth, breathing the elements of the air, primarily oxygen.

So, in perceiving the origin of Jesus, I cannot say that He was firstborn of the creation, but I can say that He was brought forth from the Father before the creation, meaning before the foundation of the world. John 17:24 and Ephesians 1:4

Well as I said the scriptures say that Jesus is the firstborn of creation at Colossians 1:15 and that phrase, "firstborn of" was used at least 30 times in the scriptures before being used at Colossians 1:15 and every single time consistently when the phrase, "firstborn of" is being used regarding animals or people what is said to be, "firstborn of" is part of the group. So the scriptures saying Jesus is the firstborn of creation according to how the scriptures uses this phrase, "firstborn of" means he belongs to the group called creation.

The apostle John repeatedly describes the Lord Jesus Christ as the only-begotten Son of God. (Joh 1:14; 3:16, 18; 1Jo 4:9) This is not in reference to his human birth or to him as just the man Jesus. As the Loʹgos, or Word, “this one was in the beginning with God,” even “before the world was.” (Joh 1:1, 2; 17:5, 24) At that time while in his prehuman state of existence, he is described as the “only-begotten Son” whom his Father sent “into the world.”—1Jo 4:9.

He is described as having “a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father,” the one residing “in the bosom position with the Father.” (Joh 1:14, 18) It is hard to think of a closer, more confidential, or more loving and tender relationship between a father and his son than this.

 

[Earburner]

^ Cont'd:
According to Ephesians 1:4, we through faith in Him, who are born again of/by His Holy Spirit (John 3:3-8 Luke 11:13 Romans 8:9) are chosen (whosoever will) to be in His kingdom with Him, through the plan of God, that was initiated BEFORE the creation of the world. John 3:16

 

[Earburner]

Well as I said the scriptures say that Jesus is the firstborn of creation at Colossians 1:15 and that phrase, "firstborn of" was used at least 30 times in the scriptures before being used at Colossians 1:15 and every single time consistently when the phrase, "firstborn of" is being used regarding animals or people what is said to be, "firstborn of" is part of the group. So the scriptures saying Jesus is the firstborn of creation according to how the scriptures uses this phrase, "firstborn of" means he belongs to the group called creation.

Yes, if the term "firstborn" must be applied, then one must comprehend that Jesus' Being is is NOT a creation apart, separate or outside of God the Father, but rather Him being "brought forth- Begotten" out of and FROM the Father Himself.

Jesus is the express image and manifestation of God the Father HIMSELF, which makes HIM to be God also, the Living Extension of the Father, for the purpose of manifestation of Him who is forever always, and only "a spirit".

John 6[46] Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

John 14[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

 

[Earburner]

Jesus said it Himself!
John 8[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world;
I am not of this world.
> IOWS, Jesus is NOT OF this creation!

John 18[36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world [this creation]: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence [here, this creation].

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

Jesus said it Himself!
John 8[23] And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world;
I am not of this world.
> IOWS, Jesus is NOT OF this creation!

John 18[36] Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world [this creation]: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence [here, this creation].

The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: “In the beginning the Word [Gr., Loʹgos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god [“was divine,” AT; Mo; or “of divine being,” Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God.” Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from “the beginning” must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as “the firstborn of all creation,” “the beginning of the creation by God.” (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son.

That Jehovah was truly the Father or Life-Giver to this firstborn Son and, hence, that this Son was actually a creature of God is evident from Jesus’ own statements. He pointed to God as the Source of his life, saying, “I live because of the Father.” According to the context, this meant that his life resulted from or was caused by his Father, even as the gaining of life by dying men would result from their faith in Jesus’ ransom sacrifice.—Joh 6:56, 57.

Jesus explains: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world.”—John 8:21-23.

Jesus is referring to his prehuman existence in heaven and to his being the promised Messiah, or Christ, whom these religious leaders should be expecting.
So Jesus is part of creation he just isn't part of the physical creation(the universe where the stars and planet earth exist) He's from where the Angels exist.