The logic of Trinitarians and Jehovah's Witnesses...

[justbyfaith]

did you understood my answer. "while the Son is come in human flesh" is this the same person?,

Yes we are talking about the same Spirit and therefore the same Person.

Between me and you @101G I find that it is a matter of semantics that cause any disagreement between us; for I am in agreement with your main premise in what you post about the nature of the Godhead.

I say to you truly that the Son is the Father while the Father is not the Son.

For the Son is the Father come in human flesh; and the Father does not exist in flesh; except in the Person of the Son.

 

[101G]

Yes, because God is a Spirit (John 4:24). Therefore if Jesus is God, He is still a Spirit; though He is come in human flesh.

well, is that not the bone of contention, JESUS is God, so how did God come in the flesh. and if you say that the son came then is not the son the Father, for there is only one Spirit, and that one Spirit is eternal who is ONE PERSON.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

I say to you truly that the Son is the Father while the Father is not the Son.

please explain that

PICJAG.

 

[kcnalp]

I have only said what is true. Inform yourself and learn what the Greek words mean.

Honestly, I doubt that you know more about Greek than the MANY translators of our English Bibles.

 

[janc2]

Yes we are talking about the same Spirit and therefore the same Person.

Between me and you @101G I find that it is a matter of semantics that cause any disagreement between us; for I am in agreement with your main premise in what you post about the nature of the Godhead.

I say to you truly that the Son is the Father while the Father is not the Son.

For the Son is the Father come in human flesh; and the Father does not exist in flesh; except in the Person of the Son.

You say that the father became flesh, but the father is not the son, but the son is the father. This statement brings confusion and teaches hidden a second separate person. Why can't you just accept that the Messiah is the begotten Son of God in whom the Father is? Did not the Messiah himself say: "The words I speak are not mine"? And did not God himself say about the Messiah: "You are my beloved Son" and: "Today I have begotten you"?

 

[101G]

You say that the father became flesh, but the father is not the son, but the son is the father. This statement brings confusion and teaches hidden a second separate person. Why can't you just accept that the Messiah is the begotten Son of God in whom the Father is? Did not the Messiah himself say: "The words I speak are not mine"? And did not God himself say about the Messiah: "You are my beloved Son" and: "Today I have begotten you"?

I would like to ask you something to clear up this matter. "is not the Father the creator, who made all things?" yes or No?

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

please explain that

PICJAG.

The Father dwells in eternity as an eternal Spirit (Isaiah 57:15).

He descended to become a Man (He is come in the flesh).

But it is the nature of one who inhabits eternity that they dwell in eternity for all of eternity; and therefore in descending, the Father did not cease to dwell in eternity. So He continues to dwell in eternity, not in flesh, as the pre-incarnate Christ.

But in that He descended to become a Man, He now dwells in flesh. Now the Person who dwells in flesh is the same Person who inhabiteth eternity, with an added nature of human flesh.

But the Person who inhabits eternity does not have that added nature; so He is not the same person, exactly, as Himself after that He incarnates and becomes a Man.

There is a distinction in personality that occurs because one is human and the other is not.

The human Person who came is indeed the Father, in His Spirit. But He is also distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.

 

[janc2]

I would like to ask you something to clear up this matter. "is not the Father the creator, who made all things?" yes or No?

PICJAG.

Yes

 

[marks]

about John 1:1.

Trinitarians: In the beginning was God the Son, and God the Son was with God the Father, and God the Son was God.

Jehovah's Witnesses: In the beginning was the Archangel, and the Archangel was with God and the Archangel was a god.

But what the Bible wants to say: In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was divine.

That would be a re-write of Scripture, just like the Jehovah's Witnesses do.

The word was with Theos, and the word was Theos.

If you want to be consistent, you would have to say, the word was with divine, and the word was divine. But you change is so it sounds different, but it's not.



Much love!

 

[janc2]

That would be a re-write of Scripture, just like the Jehovah's Witnesses do.

The word was with Theos, and the word was Theos.

If you want to be consistent, you would have to say, the word was with divine, and the word was divine. But you change is so it sounds different, but it's not.

View attachment 10505

Much love!

The word God and divine have the same meaning, both mean "power", so it doesn't matter which word one use, I used "divine" at the end to make it clear that this is not about a person, since most people think of a person by default when they hear the word "God". That the definite article in front of "God" in the phrase "the word was God" is missing, strengthens this statement.

 

[101G]

The Father dwells in eternity as an eternal Spirit (Isaiah 57:15).

LETS STOP RIGHT HERE. and this is the Son, 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen."

is the person in Isaiah 57:15 the same person in 1 Timothy 6:16? YES or NO.

your answer please.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Yes

Good thanks, now one more to seal the deal. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
HIM here meaning Jesus the WORD. NOW, is this the CREATOR, who Made all things?" Yes or No.

your answer please.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

@justbyfaith and @janc2, ? these are just yes and no answer, no explanation are need at this point.

PICJAG.

 

[Cooper]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
(John 1:1-2 KJV)

Even though the Bible tells us the "Word" was "God" I never realised "theos" and "logos" both mean GOD.

How thick am I!
.

 

[101G]

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God.
(John 1:1-2 KJV)

Even though the Bible tells us the "Word" was "God" I never realised "theos" and "logos" both mean GOD.
.

thanks, for the WORD is God, who is ONE PERSON, in flesh.

PICJAG

 

[101G]

well things go silent when we compare scripture with scripture, @justbyfaith, the person at Isaiah 57:15 is the same one person in 1 Timothy 6:16. while in heaven, in "ETERNITY", the SAME ONE PERSON is on Earth in flesh and blood in a diversified state, G2758 κενόω kenoo in natural flesh. (see John 3:13), BINGO oh how easy it is.
@janc2, it is the same CREATOR who you call Father, "WHO MADE ALL THINGS" is the same one person whom you call the Son, that "MADE ALL THINGS". for it is he, the same person, who is at JHohn 1:1, and Isaiah 44:24. see my answer to Justbyfaith above.

PICJAG.

 

[janc2]

Good thanks, now one more to seal the deal. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."
HIM here meaning Jesus the WORD. NOW, is this the CREATOR, who Made all things?" Yes or No.

your answer please.

PICJAG.

Through the word and not from the word.

 

[101G]

Through the word and not from the word.

ERROR, read Isaiah 44:24. he was alone and by himself so he didn't go "THROUGH" anyone...

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

The word God and divine have the same meaning, both mean "power",

You don't mean that the words are defined the same, do you?

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

@101G,

I would suggest reading the whole of my post:

The Father dwells in eternity as an eternal Spirit (Isaiah 57:15).

He descended to become a Man (He is come in the flesh).

But it is the nature of one who inhabits eternity that they dwell in eternity for all of eternity; and therefore in descending, the Father did not cease to dwell in eternity. So He continues to dwell in eternity, not in flesh, as the pre-incarnate Christ.

But in that He descended to become a Man, He now dwells in flesh. Now the Person who dwells in flesh is the same Person who inhabiteth eternity, with an added nature of human flesh.

But the Person who inhabits eternity does not have that added nature; so He is not the same person, exactly, as Himself after that He incarnates and becomes a Man.

There is a distinction in personality that occurs because one is human and the other is not.

The human Person who came is indeed the Father, in His Spirit. But He is also distinct from the Father in that He is come in human flesh.