The Lord’s Prayer Misunderstood

[amadeus]

It is certainly a prayer that God accepts for sure, how could He not? Keep in mind though why Jesus gave it, and what he said just prior: (Matthew 6:7) . . .When praying, do not say the same things over and over again as the people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their use of many words.

Use your own example as a youth sir, you now mean it when you say it, but putting yourself in God's shoes, if one said the same thing over and over basically it becomes rote. It is all about the sincerity of the heart. If we pour out our heart to Him, He will listen.

Amen! We need to connect with Him... not just fulfill the prescribed ritual. Will we ever be God's friend, if we never really talk to Him?

 

[Jim B]

I am a Protestant, and we love the Lord's prayer, as we do all scripture, and indeed it is wrong to change or re-interpret it, BUT THIS IS WHAT THE CULTS DO. You will understand my meaning, I am sure.
.

When Jesus taught the disciples to pray -- ready? -- they were not yet Spirit-filled or born of the Spirit. Additionally -- ready? -- he didn't instruct them in English.

The "Lord's Prayer" reads...

"Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored,
may your kingdom come,
may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts, as we ourselves have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." Matthew 6:10-13 NET

The "daily bread" is (ready?) daily bread. It has nothing to do with Jesus, who was there instructing them in person about how to pray. It's about bread.

 

[marks]

When Jesus taught the disciples to pray -- ready? -- they were not yet Spirit-filled or born of the Spirit. Additionally -- ready? -- he didn't instruct them in English.

The "Lord's Prayer" reads...

"Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored,
may your kingdom come,
may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts, as we ourselves have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." Matthew 6:10-13 NET

The "daily bread" is (ready?) daily bread. It has nothing to do with Jesus, who was there instructing them in person about how to pray. It's about bread.

Surely you are not suggesting that it means what it says, are you?



Much love!

 

[Jim B]

Surely you are not suggesting that it means what is says, are you?



Much love!

Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. The Bible means exactly what it says. The disciples -- who were not yet "born of the Spirit" -- asked Jesus to teach them how to pray and "the Lord's prayer" was the result. It is a prayer for people who respect Jesus but have not yet been "born of the Spirit". Even though it is repeated over and over and over and over by Christians.

 

[Cooper]

When Jesus taught the disciples to pray -- ready? -- they were not yet Spirit-filled or born of the Spirit. Additionally -- ready? -- he didn't instruct them in English.

The "Lord's Prayer" reads...

"Our Father in heaven, may your name be honored,
may your kingdom come,
may your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread,
and forgive us our debts, as we ourselves have forgiven our debtors.
And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one." Matthew 6:10-13 NET

The "daily bread" is (ready?) daily bread. It has nothing to do with Jesus, who was there instructing them in person about how to pray. It's about bread.

That is what I said. It is about the bread we eat, and I gave the explanation in post 71.

"When a Jewish landowner learned one of his men had become a Christian, he was dismissed from his job and the family were left starving. They needed bread."

See here The Lord’s Prayer Misunderstood

It was the same in the wilderness when the I AM gave them manna from heaven. (He gave them their daily bread TO EAT.)

And in post 73 I said this:
"People need to eat as well. They already had the living bread, they did not need to ask for it daily. (Meaning they needed bread to eat.)"

You said, "It has nothing to do with Jesus," It had everything to do with Jesus. It was Jesus, the I AM, who gave them their daily bread in the wilderness and he would provide for them again.

I'm fed up with all this stupid arguing. You got it totally wrong. An apology would be appropriate.

 

[doxley]

..... This is exactly why we need to leave the churches and go seek God on our own by reading the Bible.

In today's world of internet and social media, we have all we need at our disposal to study the Bible on our own. God never intended to have all these denominations collecting donations, and confusing people with their different interpretations. We need to be loyal to God, not our denomination's interpretation.

That's why I am here, I have been studying with Jehovah's witnesses (several times) and have come to a standstill again with some of their teachings. But then, looking for a church where I can commune and possibly even get baptized seems almost impossible. There are hardly any suitable around me, only online. I won't join churches with certain beliefs as I can't abide them. So I am left alone and have landed here.

 

[Lambano]

The "daily bread" is (ready?) daily bread. It has nothing to do with Jesus, who was there instructing them in person about how to pray. It's about bread.

Surely you are not suggesting that it means what is says, are you?

Thank you, Jim B and Marks. Sometimes I think we over spiritualize things. "Surely there must be more to it?", we think. "Surely we're "born again" and have the Holy Spirit and we're now spiritual creatures and we don't need physical things and we never ever sin, right?" We think we're something that we're really not.

Although we recite the Lord's prayer by rote, it doesn't have to be that way. It's a mnemonic device. I try to keep my heart on what we're really praying. (This works better when it's just me and God, not a public prayer.)

We identify with Jesus as a child of God, our Father. The "our" acknowledges our connectedness with our brothers and sisters.

We remember and acknowledge at the same time that God is holy.

We hope for the coming Kingdom of God here on earth. Not "going to heaven when we die", but a renewed creation where sin and death are no more, and God is with His people.

We ask to know God's desires for our lives, and we ask for the desire and power to implement what God desires.

We're open and honest that we do have needs in this world and acknowledge that all things come from God. "Daily Bread" is just that, but so much more than just that.

We're open and honest and humble with God about our own failings, both against God and against our fellow human beings, and our need for forgiveness. Trusting that God does forgive us, we are reminded that we are to be like God and forgive those who trespasses against us. (Which Jesus reemphasizes later.) Bitterness kills. We actually have a need to let go of our grievances, and since forgiveness can be costly, we ask for the power to do so.

We humbly acknowledge that we have desires that are contrary God's desires and ask for deliverance.

We close by acknowledging that He's God - and we're not. He alone owns everything, and He and He alone is worthy of Glory and Honor.

Amen.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Amen! We need to connect with Him... not just fulfill the prescribed ritual. Will we ever be God's friend, if we never really talk to Him?

On the same token Amad, how many people have close friendships with someone whom they never call by name? I have had some friends, some close that we at times call by a nickname, but most claim friendship with God, and many cannot give you His name when asked. I have experienced this for years. I could see how it might happen, but I think it would be extremely rare to have a close intimate friendship with someone who you never call by name. It is usually among the first words friends speak to each other. Jehovah has certainly made His name well known, more than any other name in the Bible.

 

[amadeus]

On the same token Amad, how many people have close friendships with someone whom they never call by name? I have had some friends, some close that we at times call by a nickname, but most claim friendship with God, and many cannot give you His name when asked. I have experienced this for years. I could see how it might happen, but I think it would be extremely rare to have a close intimate friendship with someone who you never call by name. It is usually among the first words friends speak to each other. Jehovah has certainly made His name well known, more than any other name in the Bible.

On this note, consider also being IN his name, the name of Jesus that is, without knowing His Name:

"And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him." Col 3:17

"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20

Being "in the name" is much more than simply saying "in the name of Jesus" when we are praying. People say that there is power in the name and there is, but the key is to be "IN" the name. At a neighborhood bar room people may regularly say the word, "Jesus" with their mouths but never are "IN" the name.

When a person is "in the name" completely isn't it that he has the mind of Christ? Do all of us have the mind of Christ all of the time? If we did, we certainly wouldn't sin at all, would we?

I believe that a person can be in the name without saying the name or even without knowing the name in his carnal mind. A number of people in the OT [at least, in a measure], I believe were in the name of the Messiah, the Christ, before any prophet knew what that name [Jesus] was in order to be able to speak it with his mouth.

Wasn't Elijah in the name when he was confronting the 400 prophets of Baal?

Wasn't David 'a man after God's own heart' and the 'apple of God's eye', also in the name or in His name, when God was inspiring him to write many of the psalms attributed to him in the Bible?

Neither Elijah nor David knew that the name of the savior was to be "Jesus" or "Yeshua" or any other spoken name, which man has applied to the Savior in the flesh, unless it was Immanuel.

Yet, were not both of them, and others, in the name or in His name long before the time of John the Baptist?

The following verse gives us more about this, does it not?

"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

"Which show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another)" Rom 2:14-15

Were those not also in some measure "in the name" when they did the right things without having heard the spoken word, "Jesus"?

Paul also says something here on this subject:

"For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you." Acts 17:23

Isn't it also possible that among those Athenians, one or more who knew of that altar to the unknown God were also in His name before Paul talked to them that day?

If they were in the name, didn't they get there without having any written Bible?

Hmmm? Food for thought and study and prayer, no...?

 

[Cooper]

On the same token Amad, how many people have close friendships with someone whom they never call by name? I have had some friends, some close that we at times call by a nickname, but most claim friendship with God, and many cannot give you His name when asked. I have experienced this for years. I could see how it might happen, but I think it would be extremely rare to have a close intimate friendship with someone who you never call by name. It is usually among the first words friends speak to each other. Jehovah has certainly made His name well known, more than any other name in the Bible.

H113
אָדֹן אָדוֹן
'âdôn 'âdôn
aw-done', aw-done'
From an unused root (meaning to rule); sovereign, that is, controller (human or divine): - lord, master, owner.
Total KJV occurrences: 335 (Strongs)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Before we look at two passages which, in my opinion, do indeed use “Adoni” in reference to God, we must understand that Christ is Jehovah of the Old Testament (please see the paper on this web-site Jesus Christ Is Both Jehovah And The Manifestation Of Jehovah) and at times He appeared to man in His bodily form. Jesus Christ was in bodily form in the Old Testament and took on human form when He was born of Mary at the beginning of the New Testament. How do we know that?

We read of Jehovah/Christ in Genesis 1:26, “And God said, ‘Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness….”. To correctly understand what is meant by the phrase “in Our image, after Our likeness” let us turn to Gen. 5:3 where we read the same phrase, “And Adam lived a hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness after his image….”. When we read of Adam’s son being born in “his own likeness after his image” we understand that Adam’s son looked like Adam. So also, when God created man in His likeness after His image, we must understand that God created Man to look like Himself. Any other interpretation is without a Scriptural basis.

But God is spirit. And since man was created to look like God, God obviously must have taken on a bodily form, otherwise, He could not have created man to look like Himself. Therefore, I am suggesting that Jesus Christ is Jehovah in bodily form.

A STUDY OF THE HEBREW WORD “ADONI” – Right Word Truth

Adonai is the plural of Adon, meaning "Lord, Lord, LORD, master, or owner" (the word Adon derives from a Ugaritic word meaning "lord" or "father"). In the Tanakh, the word Adon can refer to men and angels as well as to the LORD God of Israel (e.g., Exodus 34:23). God is called the "Lord of lords"(Deuteronomy 10:17) and Psalm 8:1 mentions God as "YHVH our Lord."

The plural form Adonai, like the plural form Elohim, is regularly used with singular verbs and modifiers, so it is best to construe the Name as an "emphatic plural" or "plural of majesty." When the plural is formed using a singular possessive ending ("my Lords"), it always refers to God, and occurs over 300 times in the Tanakh in this form.

The Masoretes ensured that the sacred Name of the LORD YHVH would not be taken in vain by putting the vowel marks for Adonai under the letters in the running text (ketiv). They did this to remind the reader to pronounce Adonai regardless of the consonants in the text (qere). However, Adon and Adonai also appear as Names of God in the Hebrew Masoretic text, and some of these will be listed here.

The LORD
Adonai.
Lord; God; name used as a substitute for the sacred Tetragrammaton; emphatic form of 'Adon (Isa. 6:1). Occurs 300 times in the Tanakh. The first use appears in Gen. 15:2 where Abram addresses God as "Adonai YHVH."

The LORD of lords
Adonei ha'adonim.
Lord of lords (Deut. 10:17; Psalm 136:3).

The LORD YHVH
Adonai Adonai.
Lord YHVH. Lord GOD.
References: Gen. 15:2, 8; Deut. 3:24; 9:26; Jos. 7:7; Jdg. 6:22; 16:28; 2 Sam. 7:18ff, 22, 28f; 1 Ki. 2:26; 8:53; Ps. 69:7; 71:5, 16; Isa. 3:15; 7:7; etc.; Amos 1:8; 3:7f, 11, 13; 4:2, 5; 5:3; 6:8; 7:1f, 4ff; 8:1, 3, 9, 11; 9:8; Obad. 1:1; Mic. 1:2; Zeph. 1:7.

Hebrew Name for God - Adonai

I prefer Jesus
.

 

[Cooper]

Jesus is God Jhn 1:1; Mat 1:23; Isa 40:3
Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever Hbr 1:8
The Mighty God Isa 9:6
The Everlasting God Isa 40:28
The True God 1Jo 5:20
My Lord and my God Jhn 20:28
God my Saviour Luk 1:47
Over all, God blessed for ever. Amen Rom 9:5
The God of the whole earth Isa 54:5
God manifest in the flesh 1Ti 3:16
Our God and Savior 2Pe 1:1
The great God and our Saviour, Jesus Christ Tts 2:13
Emanuel, God with us Mat 1:23
The God of Abraham, The God of Isaac, The God of Jacob Exd 3:2, 6
The Highest Luk 1:76


Jesus is before All things, and by Him All things consist. Col 1:17
The Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come Rev 1:8
The Creator of all things Col 1:16
The Upholder of all things Hbr 1:3
The Everlasting Father (or Father of Eternity) Isa 9:6
The Beginning Col 1:18
The Beginning and the Ending Rev 1:8
The Alpha and the Omega Rev 1:8
The First and the Last Rev 1:17
The Life 1Jo 1:2
Eternal Life 1Jo 5:20
That Eternal Life which was with the Father 1Jo 1:2
He that liveth Rev 1:18
.

 

[Jim B]

That is what I said. It is about the bread we eat, and I gave the explanation in post 71.

"When a Jewish landowner learned one of his men had become a Christian, he was dismissed from his job and the family were left starving. They needed bread."

See here The Lord’s Prayer Misunderstood

It was the same in the wilderness when the I AM gave them manna from heaven. (He gave them their daily bread TO EAT.)

And in post 73 I said this:
"People need to eat as well. They already had the living bread, they did not need to ask for it daily. (Meaning they needed bread to eat.)"

You said, "It has nothing to do with Jesus," It had everything to do with Jesus. It was Jesus, the I AM, who gave them their daily bread in the wilderness and he would provide for them again.

I'm fed up with all this stupid arguing. You got it totally wrong. An apology would be appropriate.

If you're fed up with all this stupid arguing, why do you continue to argue?.

I don't care if you think that I got it totally wrong; that's just your personal opinion. Nothing more. And you will definitely not get an apology from me.

 

[Cooper]

If you're fed up with all this stupid arguing, why do you continue to argue?.

I don't care if you think that I got it totally wrong; that's just your personal opinion. Nothing more. And you will definitely not get an apology from me.

I am trying to inform, educate and help, and that is not a good Christian attitude.
.

 

[Jim B]

I am trying to inform, educate and help, and that is not a good Christian attitude.
.

When you wrote "I'm fed up with all this stupid arguing. You got it totally wrong. An apology would be appropriate", how does that fit with your writing that you're "trying to inform, educate and help"?

 

[Cooper]

When you wrote "I'm fed up with all this stupid arguing. You got it totally wrong. An apology would be appropriate", how does that fit with your writing that you're "trying to inform, educate and help"?

Ask any school teacher, they are the most stressed out people ever.
.

 

[Jim B]

Ask any school teacher, they are the most stressed out people ever.
.

What does that have to do with the discussion?

You criticized me and asked for my apology? You're not getting it, even if you try to entirely change the subject to discussing stressed out schoolteachers. I mean, really!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The forgiveness of sins is the result of receiving the daily Bread, which is the Bread of life that God gives (John 6:32-33).

the forgiveness of sins is us trusting in the death and resurrection of Jesus as payment for our sins! It is not the bread and wine of communion but Jesus that gives us our forgiveness of sins.

Our celebrating teh Lords Supper is as what Jesus said: "You do show forth His death until he returns".

 

[Keiw]

@amadeus
Thank you sir . Although a new member here, I have been studying the Bible for over 30 years. Read the Bible cover to cover over 60 times. Researching, meditating, and waiting on God for wisdom. He revealed to me many truths. This was one of them. I only recently saw it clearly that the daily Bread is the Body of Jesus for the forgiveness of sins. And was like a big light came on in my head. Ever since I've been wanting desperately to get this message to other believers. I'm happy I found this website, and this forum. I have a few more God-revealed new truths I will be sharing in other posts.

And all can see in the Lords prayer its all about the Father to Jesus. It always was-John 5:30--John 4:22-24--One must go through Jesus to get to the Father. The Father is the destination for the true followers. The kingdom belongs to the Father. Only the Fathers will gets done.

 

[Cooper]

And all can see in the Lords prayer its all about the Father to Jesus. It always was-John 5:30--John 4:22-24--One must go through Jesus to get to the Father. The Father is the destination for the true followers. The kingdom belongs to the Father. Only the Fathers will gets done.

That is who Jesus is in heaven. So when you meet Him, what do you think he will say to those who deny him on earth?
.

 

[Rita]

That's why I am here, I have been studying with Jehovah's witnesses (several times) and have come to a standstill again with some of their teachings. But then, looking for a church where I can commune and possibly even get baptized seems almost impossible. There are hardly any suitable around me, only online. I won't join churches with certain beliefs as I can't abide them. So I am left alone and have landed here.

Welcome to the forum, it’s a pretty mixed bunch here so indirectly you will be rubbing shoulders with a variation of teachings. However God has used my time here, so I do pray you will gain from being here also x
Rita