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Featured The Lord's Prayer

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by charity, Dec 19, 2018.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'And it came to pass,
    .. that, as He was praying in a certain place,
    .... when He ceased,
    ...... one of His disciples said unto Him,

    ........ "Lord, teach us to pray,
    .......... as John also taught his disciples."

    And He said unto them,
    .. "When ye pray, say,
    .... Our Father which art in heaven,
    ...... Hallowed be thy name.
    ........ Thy kingdom come.
    .......... Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
    ........... Give us day by day our daily bread.
    ............ And forgive us our sins;
    .............. for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us.
    ................ And lead us not into temptation;
    .................. but deliver us from evil.'

    (Luke 11:1-4)

    Hello there,

    This is the name given to the prayer that is recorded in Matthew 6, and is recited by congregations worldwide, in school assemblies - and in secular gatherings also in which there are mixed faiths or the lack of it, where it is deemed appropriate. It forms part of the sermon on the mount, given at the request of the disciples (Luke 11:1).

    * This prayer is not offered 'in the name' of the Saviour. In John 16, the Lord said, 'Hitherto have ye asked nothing in My name'. This includes 'the Lord's prayer'. He continued by saying, 'Ask, and ye shall receive' (John 16:23,24) . Also in John 14:13-14, when addressing His disciples He said, 'And whatsoever ye shall ask in My name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.; If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.'

    * The mediation of Christ Jesus the risen Lord, is a vital factor in prayer to God. Paul's prayers were directed to, 'The God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ': terminology which can only be used by a believer; for in uttering it you are declaring the Lordship of Christ, that He is the Son of God. These words would not be uttered by one of another faith, or by one of no faith either: only by those who acknowledge the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ: and only such would ask anything in His Name.

    * The prayer of Luke 11:1-4, lays out a format for prayer, it was not intended to be recited over and over and over, as it has been: either by those who believe in God and in the person and work of His precious Son; or by those who do not acknowledge the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ but go through the motions of religious rite for forms sake.

    * The prayers of Ephesians and Colossians are so much more appropriate for the believer to pray, and the title 'The Lord's Prayer' much more appropriate to that of John 17.

    'These words spake Jesus,
    and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said,
    "Father, the hour is come;
    glorify thy Son,
    that thy Son also may glorify thee: ... ... '

    (John 17:1+)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris



     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
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  2. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'After this manner therefore pray ye:
    Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
    .. Thy kingdom come.
    .... Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
    Give us this day our daily bread.
    .. And forgive us our debts,
    .... as we forgive our debtors.
    And lead us not into temptation,
    .. but deliver us from evil:
    For thine is the kingdom,
    .. and the power,
    .... and the glory,
    ...... for ever.
    ........ Amen.'

    (Mat. 6:9)
     
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  3. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    I have always gotten a kick out of the strict adherence to this "model" prayer so many people insist upon..... Yet, despite the fact that the very first thing Jesus did in this prayer was to "lift His eyes to Heaven", they consider it almost sacrilegious if you do not immediately bow your head and close your eyes. LOL

    Are we often eaten up with "tradition", or what?
     
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  4. LoveBeacon

    LoveBeacon Member

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    One thing I like about the Lord's prayer is how all encompassing the prayer is for our spiritual walk. If one would meditate on exactly what this prayer is saying, then we can start to see the deep applications that this prayer has in our lives.

    For example, when we pray 'thy Kingdom come', then what we are saying is we want the kingdom of heaven to be here on the Earth. Therefore, we can ask ourselves,"Is what I'm doing or feeling now, the same way I will feel or do if I'm in heaven"? If we do this, then we can bring out the kingdom of God that is within us, so people can experience a glimpse of what the real heaven will be like when it comes in glory.

    This is just one example. Try the rest of the prayer and see what God reveals to you!

    In peace
     
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  5. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    A lot to learn from Biblical patterns of prayer...
     
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  6. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    @WillieT
    @LoveBeacon
    @farouk

    Thank you.

    I hope to come back to this.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  7. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Anyone want to tackle the question of WHICH Lord's prayer is the one to follow? This one skips the "power & glory" ending.

    Luke 11 King James Version (KJV)

    11 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

    2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

    3 Give us day by day our daily bread.

    4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.
     
  8. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @WillieT,

    Interesting. My first thought is that it could have something to do with the purpose for which Luke, under divine inspiration, wrote his gospel, which was to proclaim the Lord Jesus Christ as 'the ideal MAN' (Jehovah's Man) - 'The man whose name is the Branch' (Zech 6:12), whereas, Matthew's divine purpose was the proclamation of the Lord Jesus Christ as 'The King of Israel' - 'Behold Thy King' (Zech 9:9).

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  9. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'But when ye pray,
    use not vain repetitions,
    as the heathen do:
    for they think that they shall be heard
    for their much speaking.'

    (Mat 6:7)

    It is interesting that the prayer in Matthew 6:9 is prefaced by the words above, which speaks against, 'vain repetitions', which is what is done with the Lord's prayer.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  10. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Good point; the idea is not, just repeating by rote...
     
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  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    True. The idea was to ensure that each of those items is included in the Christian's praying. So what do we have?

    IT IS GOD WHO IS TEACHING YOU TO PRAY
    9 After this manner therefore pray ye:

    WORSHIP AND REVERENTLY ENTER INTO GOD'S PRESENCE
    Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

    PRAYING FOR GOD'S KINGDOM ON EARTH
    10 Thy kingdom come...

    PRAYING FOR GOD'S WILL ON EARTH
    ...Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

    PRAYING FOR DAILY NECESSITIES
    11 Give us this day our daily bread.

    ASKING FOR FORGIVENESS FOR SINS
    12And forgive us our debts,...

    ENSURING THAT WE HAVE FORGIVEN OTHERS FIRST
    ...as we forgive our debtors.

    ASKING FOR RESISTANCE TO TEMPTATION
    13 And lead us not into temptation,...

    ASKING FOR DELIVERANCE FROM SATAN AND EVILDOERS
    ...but deliver us from evil:

    PRAISING GOD COMPREHENSIVELY
    For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever.

    CLOSING PRAYER SO THAT IT SHALL BE SO
    Amen.

    The Lord's Prayer can be said by rote provided it is followed up with actual praying along these lines. And praying without following up with actions is meaningless.
     
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  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    But only God can decide whether it is vain repetition or prayer. Our job is to simply pray, not judge how others pray.
     
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  13. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    "lift His eyes to Heaven"
    We are to come boldly to the Throne of Grace so, yes, why close the eyes and look down when praying? God is in the highest Heaven so let's look up!

    "Are we often eaten up with "tradition", or what?
    Big time.
     
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  14. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Enoch111,

    No judgment intended, just a statement of fact. These words are repeated over and over, when they were intended as a guide only, at the request of the disciples and not as a command. Yet it has become a form of religious rite, a 'must do'.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
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  15. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello again,

    These words were spoken to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and specifically to the disciples at their request: the words, 'Our Father which art in Heaven', could be spoken by the children of Israel, to whom the Lord Jesus Christ came, for to them belonged the adoption (Romans 9:4).

    The fatherhood of God is not universal but conditional: the prerogative now of those who have been saved by grace, therefore born from above. So why are these words, 'Our Father which art in Heaven, placed upon the lips of those of whom they do not belong, both religious or secular?

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2018
  16. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Good to be conscious of the warning against vain repetition, of course.
     
  17. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    And then there is the...rosary beads. :/
     
  18. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Actually @Nancy, I have never understood the reason for those. Do you know?

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  19. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Just a couple of observations.

    Christ never said to pray the prayer he gave. He said pray in this manner.

    And yes the Bible says not to do repetitive prayers, etc, such as the Catholics do.

    As for rosary beads, another Catholic adoption of paganism.

    Eyes up up or down, hands together or apart, up or down, does not really matter. The important thing is to pray.

    As for which version of the prayer is correct, remember the Catholics added a lot of stuff to the Bible that carried over into the KJV.
     
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