The Lord's Prayer

[Enoch111]

You mean the KJV that was based on manuscripts that didn't even exist until the 1500s?

More nonsense from CoreIssue. Just disregard this uninformed and biased opinion.

 

[GTW27]

No need to give me all of the arguments and scriptures. Along with my morning prayers for many years now, every morning, I have always prayed what is called the Lord's Prayer. A great many years ago as a young Catholic teenager, God smote my heart for vainly saying that prayer as rapidly as possible [which in those days was pretty fast] in order to quickly finish the penance given to me by the priest as a result of my confession. I have never forgotten that lesson. Repetition is NOT an evil thing as I already believed and as you have shown. The vain part is the error I made 50 years ago and on that point with regard to that prayer, I have not repeated the error.

Blessings in Christ Jesus! I too, like you, have prayed that prayer every morning, from the beginning of my journey. The key words here are "prayed that prayer". They are powerful, as forgiveness can be found in them. A few years ago I saw a woman back at work that I had not seen in a few years. She was not doing well and explained to me the reason she left the job years back was because of pain. She had nerve pain(Fiber-something) and could not find relief by way of doctors so she quit and tried alternative medicine to no avail. She also told me that she could not sleep at night and that it had been 6 months since she had slept. She also told me she had not been to church in a very long time. So I asked her if I could pray for her and I asked her if she knew The Lord' Prayer. She told me me she remembered it from long ago. I then asked her if she wouldn't mind trying something. I said if I were you, I would try praying The Lords Prayer when you get home. I also said to pray it, go slow, and hear the words you pray.The next day she came running up to me to tell that after praying The Lord's Prayer she felt like a mountain was lifted off her and immediatly she fell asleep. She also told me her husband tried to wake her but could not. She slept through to the next morning. The Lord used this to get her attention, and He did, for in time her infimity was lifted off her, and she brought her family back to church. Also to be learned in this is, "where mans medicine ends(fails) The Lord begins".

 

[CoreIssue]

More nonsense from CoreIssue. Just disregard this uninformed and biased opinion.

My opinion is neither biased or uninformed. Far more informed than yours.

Textus receptus manuscript

Textus Receptus - Wikipedia

The Majority Text and the Original Text: Are They Identical?

What is the Majority Text?

What is the Textus Receptus? - Dr. Herbert Samworth

 

[amadeus]

Blessings in Christ Jesus! I too, like you, have prayed that prayer every morning, from the beginning of my journey. The key words here are "prayed that prayer". They are powerful, as forgiveness can be found in them. A few years ago I saw a woman back at work that I had not seen in a few years. She was not doing well and explained to me the reason she left the job years back was because of pain. She had nerve pain(Fiber-something) and could not find relief by way of doctors so she quit and tried alternative medicine to no avail. She also told me that she could not sleep at night and that it had been 6 months since she had slept. She also told me she had not been to church in a very long time. So I asked her if I could pray for her and I asked her if she knew The Lord' Prayer. She told me me she remembered it from long ago. I then asked her if she wouldn't mind trying something. I said if I were you, I would try praying The Lords Prayer when you get home. I also said to pray it, go slow, and hear the words you pray.The next day she came running up to me to tell that after praying The Lord's Prayer she felt like a mountain was lifted off her and immediatly she fell asleep. She also told me her husband tried to wake her but could not. She slept through to the next morning. The Lord used this to get her attention, and He did, for in time her infimity was lifted off her, and she brought her family back to church. Also to be learned in this is, "where mans medicine ends(fails) The Lord begins".

Give God the glory my friend! He is able in every situation. We need only to trust Him and lean heavily upon Him.

 

[Jun2u]

The Lord’s Prayer is a prayer – period.

It is for everyone.

To quote your favorite vocabulary, "WRONG".

The Lord's Prayer is only given to a child of God or to one who will become saved!!! An unsaved person will never recognize, honor, and give obeisance to the Father as his God, unless it is given to him.

The doxology is from THE DIDACHE. Jude 1:14 has nothing to do with it.

It was placed in the footnotes of a handwritten copy and eventually added to Scripture in some translations like the KJV. HOWEVER - this is NOT part of the original manuscripts. It is not in most translations.
Whether or not YOU disagree with this historical and Biblical fact is irrelevant . . .

Oops, I had forgotten your church claims to have authority over the Bible.

If there are word(s) in the KJV that were NOT in the original manuscripts the printers would have written them as italics to warn the English reader the word(s) was not written in the original manuscripts.

It is relevant whether the doxology is from the Didache or written in the footnotes of a handwritten copy then placed in Scripture because God is the Author of the Bible (2 Peter 1:21), Just as He placed the words uttered by Enoch in Jude 14 and became part of Scripture, yet we know Enoch never wrote a book that was inspired!!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Cf. the bread in John 6; not a reference to the Lord's Supper but to the ongoing spiritual sustenance which is found through faith in the Lord Jesus.

Please elaborate more on John 6 as I have other ideas what the account of the two fishes and five barley means. That is that the numbers 2, 5, and 12 have spiritual significance if any, and perhaps we can reason together.

In the prayer which the Lord taught His disciples it might also refer to physical bread.

I don’t believe it does. See Matthew 6:25-26.

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

To quote your favorite vocabulary, "WRONG".

The Lord's Prayer is only given to a child of God or to one who will become saved!!! An unsaved person will never recognize, honor, and give obeisance to the Father as his God, unless it is given to him.

Oops, I had forgotten your church claims to have authority over the Bible.

If there are word(s) in the KJV that were NOT in the original manuscripts the printers would have written them as italics to warn the English reader the word(s) was not written in the original manuscripts.

It is relevant whether the doxology is from the Didache or written in the footnotes of a handwritten copy then placed in Scripture because God is the Author of the Bible (2 Peter 1:21), Just as He placed the words uttered by Enoch in Jude 14 and became part of Scripture, yet we know Enoch never wrote a book that was inspired!!!

To God Be The Glory

That is a really asinine argument.

Pontius Pilate never wrote a Book that was inspired – but we have HIS words in the Gospel. For that matter – we have the words of SATAN (Matt. 4:1-11).

As for your impotent arguments about footnotes being italicized in the KJV and other translations – there are MANY verses that are suspect among Scripture scholars. Some that are in a few extant fragments but not in others. Some that were written about by the Early Church.

The doxology at the end of the Lord’s Prayer is one of these footnotes – and it came from a NON-Biblical source – The Didache.

Here’s another one: HOW to Baptize a person comes NOT from Scripture – but from The Didache.
NOWHERE does the Bible give instructions on HOW to baptize a person – whether it’s full immersion or pouring over the head. It is explicitly laid out in The Didache:

Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Whether YOU like it or not – Traditions such as this that were adopted by you Protestants came from the Catholic Church.
Funny how you guys pick and choose which Traditions you’ll accept . . .

 

[Jun2u]

Pontius Pilate never wrote a Book that was inspired – but we have HIS words in the Gospel. For that matter – we have the words of SATAN (Matt. 4:1-11).

Wrong! Again, I repeated your favorite word along with the word “asinine.”

It is you who do NOT KNOW how to read and understand Scripture!!! Because, you do NOT KNOW that God is the Author of the Bible, therefore, you will never know that every letter, every word, every phrase is God-breathed (inspired or moved 2 Peter 1:21). And, you do not trust Scripture because your church teaches it is the only entity that can translate the Bible.

What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?

FYI, the words uttered by Pilate, Satan, and even a donkey became part of the Bible because it was God who opened their mouths! Remember, God is the Author and He alone can write anything He wishes and His words are true and trustworthy.

As for your impotent arguments about footnotes being italicized in the KJV and other translations –[/QUOTE]

I NEVER said italicized words in the footnotes was a warning rather I said “italicized words found in the KJV was a warning from the printers that hose words were not in the original manuscripts.” If you want to quote me please do so honestly!

Here’s another one: HOW to Baptize a person comes NOT from Scripture – but from The Didache.
NOWHERE does the Bible give instructions on HOW to baptize a person – whether it’s full immersion or pouring over the head. It is explicitly laid out in The Didache:

Again, I repeat WRONG! Time and again you truly display your ignorance concerning Scripture.

God showed us to baptize by “sprinkling” as He did in Ezekiel 36:25.

Funny how you guys pick and choose which Traditions you’ll accept[/QUOTE]

Not all Protestants believe in traditions but funny how all Catholics do. See what Jesus said in Matthew 15:2-8 about traditions!!!

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

Wrong! Again, I repeated your favorite word along with the word “asinine.”

It is you who do NOT KNOW how to read and understand Scripture!!! Because, you do NOT KNOW that God is the Author of the Bible, therefore, you will never know that every letter, every word, every phrase is God-breathed (inspired or moved 2 Peter 1:21). And, you do not trust Scripture because your church teaches it is the only entity that can translate the Bible.

What? Came the word of God out from you? Or came it unto you only?

FYI, the words uttered by Pilate, Satan, and even a donkey became part of the Bible because it was God who opened their mouths! Remember, God is the Author and He alone can write anything He wishes and His words are true and trustworthy.

Ummmmmmm, need I remind you, Einstein that the reason I brought this up is because YOU made the asinine claim that the doxology at the end of the Lord’s Prayer belonged in Scripture by comparing it to that the Epistles of Jude where Enoch is quoted. YOU used this as “proof” because, although Enoch never wrote an inspired Book – his words are in Scripture. Well, so are Pilate’s and Satan’s, Einstein. That doesn’t prove anything . . .

God IS the Author of the Bible.
He did NOT, however, transcribe every copy by hand. THAT was done by MEN – and some of them made mistakes.

I NEVER said italicized words in the footnotes was a warning rather I said “italicized words found in the KJV was a warning from the printers that hose words were not in the original manuscripts.” If you want to quote me please do so honestly!

And I’m telling YOU that NOT every mistake in Scripture is italicized. I’m looking at a KJV right NOW and Matt. 6:13 is NOT italicized.

That’s just a fact . . .

Again, I repeat WRONG! Time and again you truly display your ignorance concerning Scripture.
God showed us to baptize by “sprinkling” as He did in Ezekiel 36:25.

And HOW MANY Protestant sects do YOU know of that baptize by “sprinkling?
As a matter of fact – how many groups baptize by “sprinkling” – period?? MOST are "Immersion only".

That’s what I thought . . .

Not all Protestants believe in traditions but funny how all Catholics do. See what Jesus said in Matthew 15:2-8 about traditions!!!

To God Be The Glory

Jesus NEVER condemned traditions – ONLY the ones that usurped the Word of God.

As for “Not ALL” Protestants believing in traditions – that’s not only a LIE – it’s intellectually-bankrupt.
Here are some PROTESTANT traditions that are NOT found in Scripture . . .

Sola Scriptura
Sola Fide
Altar Calls
Accepting Christ as Personal Lord and Savior
Infant Dedications
The Canon of Scripture
ALL revelation ceased after the Apostolic Age
Eternal Security
Limited Atonement
Double Predestination

and the list goes on . . .

 

[Jun2u]

Ummmmmmm, need I remind you, Einstein that the reason I brought this up is because YOU made the asinine claim that the doxology at the end of the Lord’s Prayer belonged in Scripture by comparing it to that the Epistles of Jude where Enoch is quoted. YOU used this as “proof” because, although Enoch never wrote an inspired Book – his words are in Scripture. Well, so are Pilate’s and Satan’s, Einstein. That doesn’t prove anything . . .

God IS the Author of the Bible.
He did NOT, however, transcribe every copy by hand. THAT was done by MEN – and some of them made mistakes.

Sure does prove everything! Yourself has admitted above that God IS the Author of the Bible yet in the same breath you argue that those who transcribed His words made mistakes. God does everything perfectly. Did you really think He would allow the scribes to make mistakes? Or, did you think God will not notice their mistakes? Which is it?

Here is a boss who called his secretary to take dictation. His memo went out through the office and noticed there were crucial mistakes that altered the meaning of the memo. what do you think would happen to the secretary? That’s right get fired! With God He will just wave His hand and the mistakes are corrected instantly.

There are many who believe the writers of the Scripture used their own personalities to write the Bible and therefore were subject to error, not knowing God is the Author. Had they known this I think there will not be any contentions and confusions understanding the things of God, but knowing man and his ego?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

And I’m telling YOU that NOT every mistake in Scripture is italicized. I’m looking at a KJV right NOW and Matt. 6:13 is NOT italicized.

That’s just a fact . . .

I agree Matthew 6:13 is not italicized therefore not a mistake!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

And HOW MANY Protestant sects do YOU know of that baptize by “sprinkling?
As a matter of fact – how many groups baptize by “sprinkling” – period?? MOST are "Immersion only".

That’s what I thought . . .

Knowing that the heart of man is desperately wicked he will not obey God. He thinks he knows more than God.

So he reads a scripture verse speaking about how Philip in Acts 8:38-39 baptized a eunuch. He continues to read how Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water and he baptized the eunuch. Then when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord took Philip away.

So today Acts 8 became the basis in Christendom that the method for baptism was immersion, because it is contended that Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water and both came up out of the water signifying immersion, and no one ever questioned that there is a possibility the water could be ankle deep. It is assumed the water was about waist high.

I believe Christendom would have had a different outlook had they known about Ezekiel 36:25. Just my opinion.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Enoch111]

nd no one ever questioned that there is a possibility the water could be ankle deep. It is assumed the water was about waist high.

It would take a feat of contortion if the water were only ankle deep, so that is not even viable. If anything, it may have been up to the chest or neck.

I believe Christendom would have had a different outlook had they known about Ezekiel 36:25. Just my opinion.

Again, this verse has nothing to say about water baptism. Please note:
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

This is not speaking about outward filthiness being washed and cleansed with ordinary water. This is inward filthiness (the defilement of sin and idolatry) being washed by the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. So this is a reference to the New Birth by the power of the Holy Spirit and the Word. Water is a metaphor for the Holy Spirit as Christ has already told us: He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.) John 7:38,29

Water is also a metaphor for the Word of God (the Gospel).

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sure does prove everything! Yourself has admitted above that God IS the Author of the Bible yet in the same breath you argue that those who transcribed His words made mistakes. God does everything perfectly. Did you really think He would allow the scribes to make mistakes? Or, did you think God will not notice their mistakes? Which is it?

Here is a boss who called his secretary to take dictation. His memo went out through the office and noticed there were crucial mistakes that altered the meaning of the memo. what do you think would happen to the secretary? That’s right get fired! With God He will just wave His hand and the mistakes are corrected instantly.

There are many who believe the writers of the Scripture used their own personalities to write the Bible and therefore were subject to error, not knowing God is the Author. Had they known this I think there will not be any contentions and confusions understanding the things of God, but knowing man and his ego?

To God Be The Glory

EVERY single reputable Biblical scholar agrees that there are transcription errors.

If there weren't - you wouldn't have so many different translations, Einstein.
That's why Christ left us with a CHURCH and NOT a Book.

You CAN'T be this dense.
Apparently - you're NOT a very serious student of Scripture . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I agree Matthew 6:13 is not italicized therefore not a mistake!

To God Be The Glory

And I thought your last post was ridiculous.
Again - I refuse to believe that you are this dense . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Knowing that the heart of man is desperately wicked he will not obey God. He thinks he knows more than God.

So he reads a scripture verse speaking about how Philip in Acts 8:38-39 baptized a eunuch. He continues to read how Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water and he baptized the eunuch. Then when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord took Philip away.

So today Acts 8 became the basis in Christendom that the method for baptism was immersion, because it is contended that Philip and the eunuch both went down into the water and both came up out of the water signifying immersion, and no one ever questioned that there is a possibility the water could be ankle deep. It is assumed the water was about waist high.

I believe Christendom would have had a different outlook had they known about Ezekiel 36:25. Just my opinion.

To God Be The Glory

WRONG.
That is merely an assumption.

Have you ever been to a lake or river or stream??
You don't walk UP to the water - you walk DOWN into the water, Einstein.

It's THIS king of blind assumption that gave birth to the confused mess of the tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects of Protestantism . . .

 

[Jun2u]

EVERY single reputable Biblical scholar agrees that there are transcription errors.
If there weren't - you wouldn't have so many different translations, Einstein.

Like everybody else, reputable Bible scholars have “feet of clay” also. There are many translations of the Bible because many don’t want to believe God as being the Author of the Bible!!! Otherwise, they will have to obey what is written therein.

QUOTE="BreadOfLife, post: 493335, member: 7345"]That's why Christ left us with a CHURCH and NOT a Book.[/QUOTE]

I beg to differ. God did NOT leave a church full of sinners but left His Word written in a Book called the Bible. The Church, which is invisible, that Jesus began at Pentecost, consists of all true born-again believers.

You CAN'T be this dense.
Apparently - you're NOT a very serious student of Scripture .

And you think you know me? I have burnt the midnight oil so that I can learn the Word of God, and to refute the false teachings of churches like the church you belong to. For I was born to do this!

You should look in the mirror and keep reading 1 Corinthians 14:36 until it becomes second nature to you.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Again - I refuse to believe that you are this dense . . .

You call me dense for agreeing with you??? Boy, you sure know how to turn the blame around. In this case I won’t quote “It takes one to know one” saying, for we know who it is that is dense. Wow! Talk about someone who does not know how to read.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Jun2u]

Have you ever been to a lake or river or stream??
You don't walk UP to the water - you walk DOWN into the water, Einstein.

You don’t know what you say and what you read, please go back to #72. So that you know what I’ve written which was contrary to what you’ve read, and look at the words in bold, and you’ll NOT find the phrase “walk up to the water.”

Tell me are you being intimidated? You are making far too many mistakes.

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

You don’t know what you say and what you read, please go back to #72. So that you know what I’ve written which was contrary to what you’ve read, and look at the words in bold, and you’ll NOT find the phrase “walk up to the water.”

Tell me are you being intimidated? You are making far too many mistakes.

To God Be The Glory

Apparently you can’t R*E*A*D.

I said that people don’t walk UP to water. That’s why the Bible shows them walking DOWN to the water. It doesn’t say ANYTHING about full immersion, Einstein.