The Lord's Prayer

[BreadOfLife]

HOW is reciting the Lord's Prayer a "vain" repetition??

WHO told you it wasn't supposed to be recited as a prayer?

This question is for ANYBODY who believes it to be "vain repetition" . . .

 

[amadeus]

This question is for ANYBODY who believes it to be "vain repetition" . . .

It is a repetition if we read again and again. It is vain if we simply mouth the words without really paying attention to what we are saying or reading.
Of course, we could say the same thing about reading any or all of the Bible. If for example a person read the entire Bible each and every year for 50 years that is certainly repetition. If that same person still after all of that reading and all of those years, still did not know God, it would that seem that it was all in vain... at least to this point.

There really has to be more and simply paraphrasing the words would not be enough, would it?

 

[BreadOfLife]

It is a repetition if we read again and again. It is vain if we simply mouth the words without really paying attention to what we are saying or reading.
Of course, we could say the same thing about reading any or all of the Bible. If for example a person read the entire Bible each and every year for 50 years that is certainly repetition. If that same person still after all of that reading and all of those years, still did not know God, it would that seem that it was all in vain... at least to this point.
There really has to be more and simply paraphrasing the words would not be enough, would it?

In theory, you have a point. Anything can be "vain" repetition - including telling your spouse "I love you" over and over - even when you don't mean it.

HOWEVER - that's not what we are debating here. It has been stated here that:
a. Repeating the Lord's Prayer is the "vain repetition" that Jesus warned against in Matt. 6:7.
b. It was NEVER meant to be repeated or recited.

This is FALSE.
a. In post #35 - I soundly defeated the notion that repeating prayers is "vain repetition" - and presented several verses to support this. I even showed where JESUS Himself repeated the SAME prayer 3 times in the Garden of Gethsemane (Matt. 26:44).

b. The 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) AD 50 - tells the faithful to pray the Lord's Prayer THREE TIMES DAILY.

Now - before anybody goes around objecting that this is NOT Scripture - NEITHER are your denominational "Confessions of Faith". Additionally - The Didache is the ONLY 1st century document that gives explicit instructions on how to Baptize. You will NOT find these instructions in Scripture.

Finally - the doxology that Protestants are fond of reciting AFTER the Lords Prayer. "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the Glory, forever" comes NOT from the original Greek manuscripts of Scripture - but from THE DIDACHE.

The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) (AD 50)
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Chapter 8. Concerning Fasting and Prayer (the Lord's Prayer)
But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; Matthew 6:16 for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week; but fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday). Neither pray as the hypocrites; but as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, thus pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily (needful) bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one (or, evil); for Yours is the power and the glory for ever.
Thrice in the day thus pray.

 

[amadeus]

In theory, you have a point. Anything can be "vain" repetition - including telling your spouse "I love you" over and over - even when you don't mean it.

HOWEVER - that's not what we are debating here. It has been stated here that:
a. Repeating the Lord's Prayer is the "vain repetition" that Jesus warned against in Matt. 6:7.
b. It was NEVER meant to be repeated or recited.

This is FALSE.
a. In post #35 - I soundly defeated the notion that repeating prayers is "vain repetition" - and presented several verses to support this. I even showed where JESUS Himself repeated the SAME prayer 3 times in the Garden of Gethsemane (Matt. 26:44).

b. The 1st century document, The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) AD 50 - tells the faithful to pray the Lord's Prayer THREE TIMES DAILY.

Now - before anybody goes around objecting that this is NOT Scripture - NEITHER are your denominational "Confessions of Faith". Additionally - The Didache is the ONLY 1st century document that gives explicit instructions on how to Baptize. You will NOT find these instructions in Scripture.

Finally - the doxology that Protestants are fond of reciting AFTER the Lords Prayer. "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the Glory, forever" comes NOT from the original Greek manuscripts of Scripture - but from THE DIDACHE.

The Didache (Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) (AD 50)
Chapter 7. Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.

Chapter 8. Concerning Fasting and Prayer (the Lord's Prayer)
But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites; Matthew 6:16 for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week; but fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday). Neither pray as the hypocrites; but as the Lord commanded in His Gospel, thus pray: Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us today our daily (needful) bread, and forgive us our debt as we also forgive our debtors. And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one (or, evil); for Yours is the power and the glory for ever.
Thrice in the day thus pray.

No need to give me all of the arguments and scriptures. Along with my morning prayers for many years now, every morning, I have always prayed what is called the Lord's Prayer. A great many years ago as a young Catholic teenager, God smote my heart for vainly saying that prayer as rapidly as possible [which in those days was pretty fast] in order to quickly finish the penance given to me by the priest as a result of my confession. I have never forgotten that lesson. Repetition is NOT an evil thing as I already believed and as you have shown. The vain part is the error I made 50 years ago and on that point with regard to that prayer, I have not repeated the error.

 

[Harvest 1874]

'After this manner therefore pray ye:
Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
.. Thy kingdom come.
.... Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
.. And forgive us our debts,
.... as we forgive our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation,
.. but deliver us from evil:
For thine is the kingdom,
.. and the power,
.... and the glory,
...... for ever.
........ Amen.'
(Mat. 6:9)

This is the correct thought, we are not to recite this particular prayer word for word, but to pray in like manner.

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Matt 6:7 Don't say some written down prayer that somebody else wrote over and over again. Your Heavenly Father has feelings just as you have feelings. He would rather hear from you rather than a prayer that someone else wrote.

The prayers of the heart should be the true feelings of the INDIVIDUAL, and not be base upon some “vain” formal request which only indicates a low degree of spiritual development and imperfect ideas respecting God, and ones relationship with Him.

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is the correct thought, we are not to recite this particular prayer word for word, but to pray in like manner.

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." Matt 6:7 Don't say some written down prayer that somebody else wrote over and over again. Your Heavenly Father has feelings just as you have feelings. He would rather hear from you rather than a prayer that someone else wrote.

The prayers of the heart should be the true feelings of the INDIVIDUAL, and not be base upon some “vain” formal request which only indicates a low degree of spiritual development and imperfect ideas respecting God, and ones relationship with Him.

This was already addressed on post #35 . . .

 

[Jun2u]

HOW is reciting the Lord's Prayer a "vain" repetition??

WHO told you it wasn't supposed to be recited as a prayer?

ometimes, even a church that teaches a different gospel from that of the true Gospel will understand difficult passages of Scripture. In this case the Lord’s Prayer.

I believe the Lord’s Prayer is a prayer for salvation that is prayed by a child of God for himself, or for loved ones that still needs to know God. Below are the reasons I believe this is so.

1) “Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name...”
Only a child of God will recognize God is his Father and that He is Holy whereas, an unsaved person will NEVER give such honor nor worship the Living God.

2) “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven...”
Only a child of God understands God is omniscient, all powerful.

3) “Give us this day our daily bread...“
Jesus is the believers' daily bread that came down from heaven that is, they get their daily spiritual sustenance from Him.

4) “And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors...”
The child of God ought to forgive those who wronged him as Jesus forgave him, if not his Father in heaven will not forgive him.

5)”And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil...”
God will NEVER lead His people into Judgment but will deliver them from the evil one (Satan).

Finally - the doxology that Protestants are fond of reciting AFTER the Lords Prayer. "For thine is the kingdom, the power and the Glory, forever" comes NOT from the original Greek manuscripts of Scripture - but from THE DIDACHE.

I do NOT agree with the statement above!!! In fact, the doxology as you put it must be read in light of Jude 14.

Your church teaches that Enoch wrote a book, but since it was not inspired the book was omitted from the Bible (like any other books written that were not inspired). However, Enoch’s utterance (said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) became a part of the Scripture.

To God Be The Glory

 

[BreadOfLife]

ometimes, even a church that teaches a different gospel from that of the true Gospel will understand difficult passages of Scripture. In this case the Lord’s Prayer.

I believe the Lord’s Prayer is a prayer for salvation that is prayed by a child of God for himself, or for loved ones that still needs to know God. Below are the reasons I believe this is so.

1) “Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name...”
Only a child of God will recognize God is his Father and that He is Holy whereas, an unsaved person will NEVER give such honor nor worship the Living God.

2) “Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth as it is in heaven...”
Only a child of God understands God is omniscient, all powerful.

3) “Give us this day our daily bread...“
Jesus is the believers' daily bread that came down from heaven that is, they get their daily spiritual sustenance from Him.

4) “And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors...”
The child of God ought to forgive those who wronged him as Jesus forgave him, if not his Father in heaven will not forgive him.

5)”And lead us not into temptation but deliver us from evil...”
God will NEVER lead His people into Judgment but will deliver them from the evil one (Satan).

The Lord’s Prayer is a prayer – period.

It is for everyone.

I do NOT agree with the statement above!!! In fact, the doxology as you put it must be read in light of Jude 14.

Your church teaches that Enoch wrote a book, but since it was not inspired the book was omitted from the Bible (like any other books written that were not inspired). However, Enoch’s utterance (said under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) became a part of the Scripture.

To God Be The Glory

The doxology is from THE DIDACHE. Jude 1:14 has nothing to do with it.

It was placed in the footnotes of a handwritten copy and eventually added to Scripture in some translations like the KJV. HOWEVER - this is NOT part of the original manuscripts. It is not in most translations.
Whether or not YOU disagree with this historical and Biblical fact is irrelevant . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is a prayer that will bless you with eternal rewards if you pray it frequently (behind the link):

My everyday prayer (recommended for you also).

 

[justbyfaith]

"lift His eyes to Heaven"
We are to come boldly to the Throne of Grace so, yes, why close the eyes and look down when praying? God is in the highest Heaven so let's look up!

"Are we often eaten up with "tradition", or what?
Big time.

Of course, when coming to the Lord in contrition and repentance, the publican "did not so much as lift up his eyes unto heaven, but beat on his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

So I would think that lifting up our eyes to heaven would be done more during those times when we think we are doing good, like the Pharisee (or perhaps like Jesus, who was without sin).

 

[justbyfaith]

remember the Catholics added a lot of stuff to the Bible that carried over into the KJV.

Or, satan wants to encourage people to go by Bibles that omit certain things in certain verses, which was his tactic during Jesus' temptation, in which he omitted the words "in all thy ways" when quoting from Psalms 91:11 (because that would have helped the Lord to resist the temptation even better). So the devil has his versions where things that are most helpful are taken away. All one need do to discover this is to compare other versions to the kjv, which contains the whole counsel of God; where those other versions omit certain words, phrases, and even whole paragraphs.

Does not change the fact that the KJV includes Easter which did not exist at the time and is a creation of Catholicism.

The one thing left that non-kjv-onlyists even have as a point of contention. It is so minute that it doesn't even bear mentioning; except to say that the doctrine of the resurrection is exalted in the kjv here (in Acts 12:4 (kjv)) and that this is good for doctrine rather than bad. There is no detraction from the gain we receive from Bible study in the kjv's rendering of this verse; while in other versions certain omissions do detract from the preaching of sound doctrine.

We speak the English of today, not the archaic 1611 English.

Get a dictionary. The archaic language of the kjv has its benefit in that one can know that it is the Bible you are quoting, simply from the archaic language; and also a kindergartener can understand the archaic wording of the kjv without a problem. It also makes a distinction between plural and singular "you" which is excellent, with "thee", "thou", "ye", and "you".

WHERE does the Bible say NOT to pray repetitive prayers??

Matthew 6:7-8. But actually, the exhortation is against vain repetitions, such as repeating a prayer over and over again without it really being the prayer of your heart...such as in the rosary. Just mouthing words does not qualify as true prayer, is what Jesus is saying by this. He is not saying that if you repeat the same prayer you are in the wrong...that only applies if the prayer is empty...such as when it is assigned to you by a Catholic priest.

comes NOT from the original Greek manuscripts of Scripture

Just so you know, the original manuscripts have been lost to us...there are only copies of copies...one reason why our trust must be in the sovereignty and love of God in His preservation of scripture in the trusted kjv.

Don't say some written down prayer that somebody else wrote over and over again.

It is alright to say a prayer that someone wrote down, if you make it your own prayer and are not mouthing it vainly or emptily.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Matthew 6:7-8. But actually, the exhortation is against vain repetitions, such as repeating a prayer over and over again without it really being the prayer of your heart...such as in the rosary. Just mouthing words does not qualify as true prayer, is what Jesus is saying by this. He is not saying that if you repeat the same prayer you are in the wrong...that only applies if the prayer is empty...such as when it is assigned to you by a Catholic priest.

WRONG.

Apparently - you didn't READ post #35 where I obliterated this argument. Perhaps, I'll reiterate some of that post for you now . . .

When Jesus made this statement in Matt. 6:7, he was speaking about the nonsensical babbling of pagans to their gods – not the sincere prayers of the faithful. We read about them in 1 Kings 18:26-29, where the pagan prophets on Mount Carmel tried to invoke Baal all day long, repeatedly calling on his name and performing ritual dances.

- We see in Rev. 4:8 that the angels pray the SAME prayer day and night without ceasing in the presence of almighty God, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.”

- Psalm 136 goes on for 26 verses in a row, repeating the exact SAME prayer, “God's love endures forever”.

- Similarly, in Dan. 3:56-88 we read the exact SAME prayer for 32 VERSES, which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever.” This is far more repetitious than a decade of the Rosary or 3 Hail Mary's a Priest might give someone for their penance.

Just so you know, the original manuscripts have been lost to us...there are only copies of copies...one reason why our trust must be in the sovereignty and love of God in His preservation of scripture in the trusted kjv.

And just so YOU know - the doxology, "For thine is the kingdom, etc.", comes from The Didache - which is a extrabilical source - NOT Scripture. I've already proven this by presenting the paragraph from this 1st century document.

Apparently - you're NOT familiar with the fact that this doxology has ALWAYS been suspect as far as having been in Matthew's original text. For example - the New American Standard Bible puts it in brackets. The English Standard Version and New International Version completely omit the doxology altogether as do MOST other translations.

For centuries, Bible scholars have said that this was a side note by a translator that was later added to the text.

 

[justbyfaith]

Apparently - you didn't READ post #35 where I obliterated this argument.

You have not obliterated anything.

When Jesus made this statement in Matt. 6:7, he was speaking about the nonsensical babbling of pagans to their gods – not the sincere prayers of the faithful. We read about them in 1 Kings 18:26-29, where the pagan prophets on Mount Carmel tried to invoke Baal all day long, repeatedly calling on his name and performing ritual dances.

Yes...and the praying of the rosary is very much like the babbling of the Baal-worshippers to Mary, the Queen of Heaven...(see the whole of Jeremiah's book)

- We see in Rev. 4:8 that the angels pray the SAME prayer day and night without ceasing in the presence of almighty God, “Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty.”

I am certain that their repetitions are not vain...and also, as one other person said, their words are not a prayer but a proclamation...they are not making the Lord God Almighty to be holy, holy, holy by praying for Him to be so...

- Psalm 136 goes on for 26 verses in a row, repeating the exact SAME prayer, “God's love endures forever”.

This also is a proclamation of scripture within the context of a prayer...the Psalmist is not praying for God's love to endure for ever...he is proclaiming that it is a fact that it does.

- Similarly, in Dan. 3:56-88 we read the exact SAME prayer for 32 VERSES, which is “bless the Lord; praise and exalt him above all forever.”

Daniel chapter 3 only has 30 verses in it, sorry.

And just so YOU know - the doxology, "For thine is the kingdom, etc.", comes from The Didache - which is a extrabilical source - NOT Scripture.

It may not be in Luke but it is in Matthew...now I know that you have an argument against it even being in Matthew below, and I will answer below.

Apparently - you're NOT familiar with the fact that this doxology has ALWAYS been suspect as far as having been in Matthew's original text. For example - the New American Standard Bible puts it in brackets. The English Standard Version and New International Version completely omit the doxology altogether as do MOST other translations.

For centuries, Bible scholars have said that this was a side note by a translator that was later added to the text.

1st of all, it is no skin off my back if those words are not in scripture...whether they are there or not, the kingdom and the power and the glory belong to our Father which is in heaven for ever and ever...that is simply a given.

Secondly, I am kjv-superior in my pov concerning Bible translations, for the following reason:

The devil omitted "in all thy ways" from his quoting of Psalms 91:11 in his temptation of Jesus, and this speaks volumes concerning his tactics when it comes to the scriptures. His best bet is to have you see a scripture through his lens...and he does this by handing you a scripture that is incomplete, by omitting the part of the verse that would be most helpful to you. I find this to be true in so many modern versions, that entire words, phrases, even paragraphs are taken out of the scriptures.

Now your Catholic Bible may indeed have 88 verses in Daniel chapter 3. Well, I am not privy to them because I do not own a Catholic Bible. I am also certain that there is nothing in verses 31-88 that will make a difference in my salvation...unless you can quote me a verse therein that shows some doctrine of salvation that I am missing in my kjv, that might make an eternal difference for my soul.

I can think of things like that in the kjv vs. modern versions, such as with the omitting of the second half of Romans 8:1...that can make a difference in someone's salvation for certain!
.
.
.
And therefore, since I am kjv-only, scholarship that suggests that "For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory" does not belong there, means nothing to me. I hold it to be just a part of satan's tactic to remove important things from scripture...and I am not one to listen to satan and his pov on things.

 

[Harvest 1874]

It is alright to say a prayer that someone wrote down, if you make it your own prayer and are not mouthing it vainly or emptily.

According to you, especially seeing as it is your prayer which you are suggesting to others to pray, however as we said we believe such prayers are spoken in vain, the Lord wishes to hear the heart sentiments of the individual, not those of someone else.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you own the prayer and it is coming from your heart, it is not a vain repetition and it certainly doesn't hurt to pray for things that are scriptural, like in the prayer I set forth.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You have not obliterated anything.

Yes...and the praying of the rosary is very much like the babbling of the Baal-worshippers to Mary, the Queen of Heaven...(see the whole of Jeremiah's book)

I am certain that their repetitions are not vain...and also, as one other person said, their words are not a prayer but a proclamation...they are not making the Lord God Almighty to be holy, holy, holy by praying for Him to be so...

This also is a proclamation of scripture within the context of a prayer...the Psalmist is not praying for God's love to endure for ever...he is proclaiming that it is a fact that it does.

Daniel chapter 3 only has 30 verses in it, sorry.

It may not be in Luke but it is in Matthew...now I know that you have an argument against it even being in Matthew below, and I will answer below.

1st of all, it is no skin off my back if those words are not in scripture...whether they are there or not, the kingdom and the power and the glory belong to our Father which is in heaven for ever and ever...that is simply a given.

Secondly, I am kjv-superior in my pov concerning Bible translations, for the following reason:

The devil omitted "in all thy ways" from his quoting of Psalms 91:11 in his temptation of Jesus, and this speaks volumes concerning his tactics when it comes to the scriptures. His best bet is to have you see a scripture through his lens...and he does this by handing you a scripture that is incomplete, by omitting the part of the verse that would be most helpful to you. I find this to be true in so many modern versions, that entire words, phrases, even paragraphs are taken out of the scriptures.

Now your Catholic Bible may indeed have 88 verses in Daniel chapter 3. Well, I am not privy to them because I do not own a Catholic Bible. I am also certain that there is nothing in verses 31-88 that will make a difference in my salvation...unless you can quote me a verse therein that shows some doctrine of salvation that I am missing in my kjv, that might make an eternal difference for my soul.

I can think of things like that in the kjv vs. modern versions, such as with the omitting of the second half of Romans 8:1...that can make a difference in someone's salvation for certain!

And therefore, since I am kjv-only, scholarship that suggests that "For thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory" does not belong there, means nothing to me. I hold it to be just a part of satan's tactic to remove important things from scripture...and I am not one to listen to satan and his pov on things.

A “proclamation”??

ALL of the Psalms are prayers and many of them would fall into YOUR category of “Proclamations”.

They are prayers nonetheless because they are proclamations ofWORSHIP. Rev. 4:8 and Psalm 136 are ALSOprayers of worship – and they are REPETITIOUS.

Ummmm – and your EDITED Protestant version of Daniel may have 30verses.
However - the UNEDITED version of Daniel that Jesus and the NT writers studied from has 100 verses.

YOU just ranted about the “evils” of the Catholic Bible “omitting” the doxology at the end of the Lord’s Prayer – yet you are perfectly FINE with Protestants having saved SEVENTY VERSESout of the Book of Daniel.

Talk about hypocrisy . . .

 

[justbyfaith]

YOU just ranted about the “evils” of the Catholic Bible

Where did I ever rail on the Catholic Bible?

I have not said anything about its evils.

copy and paste my rant below.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Where did I ever rail on the Catholic Bible?
I have not said anything about its evils.
copy and paste my rant below.

You implied it.
YOU said:

The devil omitted "in all thy ways" from his quoting of Psalms 91:11 in his temptation of Jesus, and this speaks volumes concerning his tactics when it comes to the scriptures. His best bet is to have you see a scripture through his lens...and he does this by handing you a scripture that is incomplete, by omitting the part of the verse that would be most helpful to you.

Nobody “omitted” anything.
The doxology after the Lord’s Prayer in Matt. 6:13, was added by a translator who got it from The Didache.

Yours is what we educated people call a hidden insult . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

="justbyfaith, post: 491539, member: 7886"]Or, satan wants to encourage people to go by Bibles that omit certain things in certain verses, which was his tactic during Jesus' temptation, in which he omitted the words "in all thy ways" when quoting from Psalms 91:11 (because that would have helped the Lord to resist the temptation even better). So the devil has his versions where things that are most helpful are taken away. All one need do to discover this is to compare other versions to the kjv, which contains the whole counsel of God; where those other versions omit certain words, phrases, and even whole paragraphs.

You mean the KJV that was based on manuscripts that didn't even exist until the 1500s? The other Bibles that used the oldest manuscripts available even dating back to the Old Testament times?

Those Bibles you're criticizing didn't omit, the KJV added.

Who says the KJV was given by God? Only KJVO people who have no regard for manuscript history.

You're defending the KJV that added Catholic practices to the Bible. Such as Passover being changed to Easter in the book of acts. Or in Genesis 1 the earth became being change to the earth was. Or to men of goodwill being being changed to goodwill toward men.

The one thing left that non-kjv-onlyists even have as a point of contention. It is so minute that it doesn't even bear mentioning; except to say that the doctrine of the resurrection is exalted in the kjv here (in Acts 12:4 (kjv)) and that this is good for doctrine rather than bad. There is no detraction from the gain we receive from Bible study in the kjv's rendering of this verse; while in other versions certain omissions do detract from the preaching of sound doctrine.

Get a dictionary. The archaic language of the kjv has its benefit in that one can know that it is the Bible you are quoting, simply from the archaic language; and also a kindergartener can understand the archaic wording of the kjv without a problem. It also makes a distinction between plural and singular "you" which is excellent, with "thee", "thou", "ye", and "you".

You think those are the only words phrases cause problems better think again.

Matthew 6:7-8. But actually, the exhortation is against vain repetitions, such as repeating a prayer over and over again without it really being the prayer of your heart...such as in the rosary. Just mouthing words does not qualify as true prayer, is what Jesus is saying by this. He is not saying that if you repeat the same prayer you are in the wrong...that only applies if the prayer is empty...such as when it is assigned to you by a Catholic priest.

Wrong. Talking about the pagans here has significant meaning.

To them such recitations have power. They are incantations.

Just so you know, the original manuscripts have been lost to us...there are only copies of copies...one reason why our trust must be in the sovereignty and love of God in His preservation of scripture in the trusted kjv.

The oldest copies are much more reliable than your 15th century manuscripts.

A big problem for you is you're saying there was no Bible before 1611 that could be trusted.

And where did you get this Revelation that the KJV is God's ordained Bible?

 

[farouk]

3) “Give us this day our daily bread...“
Jesus is the believers' daily bread that came down from heaven that is, they get their daily spiritual sustenance from Him.

Cf. the bread in John 6; not a reference to the Lord's Supper but to the ongoing spiritual sustenance which is found through faith in the Lord Jesus.

In the prayer which the Lord taught His disciples it might also refer to physical bread.