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Featured The Love of God - John MacArthur

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by marks, Oct 10, 2019.

  1. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Why do you believe Paul says until now, in your above post?
     
  2. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    It’s interesting that the definition for the word hope changes here in Romans.
     
  3. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    MacArthur had to come up with this nonsense in order to justify his false gospel. Let's just stick with what is actually stated in Scripture. And people should stop misrepresenting what is said in Ephesians about predestination.

    A careful reading and study of Ephesians will show that it is believers who are predestined for perfection. And since the whole world in invited to believe, all could be predestined if all would believe.

     
  4. Prayer Warrior

    Prayer Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Are you into the Socratic method? I'm sure you know the answer to your question (or think you know), so why not just state it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2019
  5. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    I find John MacArthur quite sound and balanced, actually, for the most part.
     
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  6. David Taylor

    David Taylor Well-Known Member

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    How do you figure that?
     
  7. David Taylor

    David Taylor Well-Known Member

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    Do you not believe there are different kinds of love? Because, last I checked, the New Testament specifically uses multiple types of love. Philos, Agape, Eros.....ever heard of these?
     
  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I have. There is also storge, familial love. Eros is not actually used in the NT.

    But as I understand MacArthur, that's not what he's talking about.

    He's trying to make sense of the doctrine of limited atonement, I think, and has to somehow explain that God loves everyone, yet God does not save everyone.

    If you answer how it is that God loves all but does not save all, and you believe that God has chosen some for eternal life and glory, and others for eternal suffering and shame, than you have to conclude that God's love is different for some than for others. God's better love is salvific.

    If we say that God has different loves even as man has different loves, not do we make the error in thinking God is like us, but look at what these loves are. It's our preference for different flavors. We love our families in one way, our friends another way, and we think so little of the word love we use it literally for ice cream flavors.

    God we love with the highest love - if we do, that is. We want to love others with the higher love, and not the lesser loves. But how do we say that God has lesser love?

    Are we not to love everyone the same? And if this is what God calls us to, how would we say that He is less than that?

    This is the issue I have with MacArthur's view on this point. He makes out that God is less than what God tells us to be.

    Much love!
     
  9. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Did you see how they greeted each? Esau was still blessed by God, but he was not the chosen one of the two through whom the Messiah would come.
     
  10. Stan B

    Stan B Active Member

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    So . . you have merely proclaimed that your god is a liar; the father of lies?? You are questioning God's declaration, just like Satan did in the Garden of Eden: "Did God REALLY say this?"

    When my God declares in Scripture that He hates someone, I believe Him!!
     
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  11. Stan B

    Stan B Active Member

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    I have no idea what a "two loves" means.
     
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    How can anyone make sense of Limited Atonement when it is a TOTAL FICTION? It is as fictitious as Purgatory.
     
  13. David Taylor

    David Taylor Well-Known Member

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    Total fiction? Oh boy, here we go.
     
  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I already showed you that your fictitious interpretation of *world* is false. Now do I need to show you that Limited Atonement is equally fictitious?

    Christians have no need -- and no business -- dealing in fictions. They have God's Truth in their hands.
     
  15. David Taylor

    David Taylor Well-Known Member

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    Where did you show me my interpretation of world is false? What post was that?
     
  16. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Well, you just come up with this sort of stuff that God loves with lesser love. Makes no sense at all!

    Much love!
     
  17. CharismaticLady

    CharismaticLady Well-Known Member

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    Just because our English translations say "hate" doesn't mean the Greek does.
     
  18. David Taylor

    David Taylor Well-Known Member

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    Oh brother. It says miseo. Do you know what that means? Since you probably won't take my word for it, here is a lexicon:

    88.198 μισέω: to dislike strongly, with the implication of aversion and hostility—‘to V 1, p 763 hate, to detest.’ οἱ δὲ πολῖται αὐτοῦ ἐμίσουν αὐτόν ‘and his fellow countrymen hated him’ Lk 19:14. Expressions for ‘hatred’ frequently involve idiomatic phrases, for example, ‘to kill in the heart’ or ‘to spit at someone in the heart.’

    Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 762–763.
     
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  19. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    So you have given us the meaning of the transliterated Greek root word, "miseó," and not the actual meaning of the transliterated word found in Romans 9:13 which is "emisēsa," which I understand only appears once in the New Testament and is more in keeping with "loved less."

    Hebrews 12:14-17: - 14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears. ​

    Now Jacob was not loved by Isaac as much as Isaac loved Esau, because Esau was a skilled hunter and cooked the game he killed for his father to enjoy.

    Isaac announced that he was going to give his blessing to Esau, which was contrary to the Word of God concerning the twins before they were born, possibly 75 years before he actually died, because he was not well and his eye sight was poor.

    Yes in Malachi 1:3, God is quoted by the Prophet as saying that He hated (H:8130) Esau, but it is not the exceeding hatred of H:8135,rather it is better understood to have a meaning of "a hate of" someone or an activity undertaken by that person, rather than a pure hatred of a person as the Hebrew root word, H:813,5 would imply.

    Oh brother, perhaps it is you who has not done your research properly.

    Shalom
     
  20. David Taylor

    David Taylor Well-Known Member

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    Even if you go with love less, however the word is still properly translated hate, you still have two different levels of love. God does NOT love all equally nor does Scripture teach that anywhere.
     
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