Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
Why do you believe Paul says until now, in your above post?until now.
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Why do you believe Paul says until now, in your above post?until now.
It’s interesting that the definition for the word hope changes here in Romans.But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with patience.
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MacArthur had to come up with this nonsense in order to justify his false gospel. Let's just stick with what is actually stated in Scripture. And people should stop misrepresenting what is said in Ephesians about predestination.It's my own description of MacArthur's teaching, that God loves everyone, but that He loves the elect with a better kind of love.
Are you into the Socratic method? I'm sure you know the answer to your question (or think you know), so why not just state it?Why do you believe Paul says until now, in your above post?
I find John MacArthur quite sound and balanced, actually, for the most part.MacArthur had to come up with this nonsense in order to justify his false gospel. Let's just stick with what is actually stated in Scripture. And people should stop misrepresenting what is said in Ephesians about predestination.
A careful reading and study of Ephesians will show that it is believers who are predestined for perfection. And since the whole world in invited to believe, all could be predestined if all would believe.
How do you figure that?God didn't literally HATE Esau,
Do you not believe there are different kinds of love? Because, last I checked, the New Testament specifically uses multiple types of love. Philos, Agape, Eros.....ever heard of these?A sincere love. A genuine love. But a substandard love, not enough that they can come into the kingdom.
How sincere is that?
OK, you don't have to stay in Jail, I'll pay your $1000 fine. So I go to the clerk, give him $500, and say, OK, I've done what I said.
God is love. God is not "loves". God is love and that love is supreme, as all that God is. God is not, Greater Love and Lesser Love.
God does not love with a second-rate love.
I have. There is also storge, familial love. Eros is not actually used in the NT.Do you not believe there are different kinds of love? Because, last I checked, the New Testament specifically uses multiple types of love. Philos, Agape, Eros.....ever heard of these?
How do you figure that?
Both Ephesians 1 and Romans 9 through 11 have to do with Israel, God's chosen nation. God didn't literally HATE Esau, He just chose Jacob to further the line to the Messiah. Adam - Seth - Noah - Shem - Abraham - Isaac - Jacob - David - Jesus
I have no idea what a "two loves" means.Does this mean you agree with this "two loves" idea?
How can anyone make sense of Limited Atonement when it is a TOTAL FICTION? It is as fictitious as Purgatory.He's trying to make sense of the doctrine of limited atonement, I think, and has to somehow explain that God loves everyone, yet God does not save everyone.
Total fiction? Oh boy, here we go.How can anyone make sense of Limited Atonement when it is a TOTAL FICTION? It is as fictitious as Purgatory.
Yeah. I already showed you that your fictitious interpretation of *world* is false. Now do I need to show you that Limited Atonement is equally fictitious?Total fiction? Oh boy, here we go.
Where did you show me my interpretation of world is false? What post was that?Yeah. I already showed you that your fictitious interpretation of *world* is false. Now do I need to show you that Limited Atonement is equally fictitious?
Christians have no need -- and no business -- dealing in fictions. They have God's Truth in their hands.
Well, you just come up with this sort of stuff that God loves with lesser love. Makes no sense at all!How can anyone make sense of Limited Atonement when it is a TOTAL FICTION? It is as fictitious as Purgatory.
So . . you have merely proclaimed that your god is a liar; the father of lies?? You are questioning God's declaration, just like Satan did in the Garden of Eden: "Did God REALLY say this?"
When my God declares in Scripture that He hates someone, I believe Him!!
Oh brother. It says miseo. Do you know what that means? Since you probably won't take my word for it, here is a lexicon:Just because our English translations say "hate" doesn't mean the Greek does.
Oh brother. It says miseo. Do you know what that means? Since you probably won't take my word for it, here is a lexicon:
88.198 μισέω: to dislike strongly, with the implication of aversion and hostility—‘to V 1, p 763 hate, to detest.’ οἱ δὲ πολῖται αὐτοῦ ἐμίσουν αὐτόν ‘and his fellow countrymen hated him’ Lk 19:14. Expressions for ‘hatred’ frequently involve idiomatic phrases, for example, ‘to kill in the heart’ or ‘to spit at someone in the heart.’
Johannes P. Louw and Eugene Albert Nida, Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament: Based on Semantic Domains (New York: United Bible Societies, 1996), 762–763.
Even if you go with love less, however the word is still properly translated hate, you still have two different levels of love. God does NOT love all equally nor does Scripture teach that anywhere.So you have given us the meaning of the transliterated Greek root word, "miseó," and not the actual meaning of the transliterated word found in Romans 9:13 which is "emisēsa," which I understand only appears once in the New Testament and is more in keeping with "loved less."
Hebrews 12:14-17: - 14 Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord: 15 looking carefully lest anyone fall short of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up cause trouble, and by this many become defiled; 16 lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. 17 For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.
Now Jacob was not loved by Isaac as much as Isaac loved Esau, because Esau was a skilled hunter and cooked the game he killed for his father to enjoy.
Isaac announced that he was going to give his blessing to Esau, which was contrary to the Word of God concerning the twins before they were born, possibly 75 years before he actually died, because he was not well and his eye sight was poor.
Yes in Malachi 1:3, God is quoted by the Prophet as saying that He hated (H:8130) Esau, but it is not the exceeding hatred of H:8135,rather it is better understood to have a meaning of "a hate of" someone or an activity undertaken by that person, rather than a pure hatred of a person as the Hebrew root word, H:813,5 would imply.
Oh brother, perhaps it is you who has not done your research properly.
Shalom