The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[ewq1938]

But it says "that the time has come"


But once again thats not what it says it says "And should destroy those who destroy the earth" the unsaved are judged here just in in chapter 20 thus these are one and the same events.

Not the same events, or same people or same time. Just read Revelation 20. It shows people being judged and resurrected BEFORE the thousand years and then show other people being judged and resurrected AFTER the thousand years. Never forget "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" proves the Premillennialism interpretation. Some of the dead lived again BEFORE the thousand years and "the rest" lived again AFTER the thousand years.

 

[jeffweeder]

Humm please read it again

18The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

So the saved dead are destroyed for destroying the earth and Gods wrath has come upon them?

Hey there Marty,
What do you mean by saved dead destroying the earth?

I think the unsaved are judged and destroyed at the same time the Prophets ,saints and all those who fear your name great and small are rewarded.

Gods wrath and Gods righteous judgment are the same thing and happen on the same day all who have believed are rewarded...,


2thess 1
5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.

 

[Timtofly]

Maybe not because the 7th trumpet it says

18The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come,
And the time of the dead, that they should be judged,
And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints,
And those who fear Your name, small and great,
And should destroy those who destroy the earth.”

This is clearly the time of the judgement of the unsaved

The unsaved walking around on the earth. There are no Nations in sheol, unless you are relying on some Greek mythological Nations in the underworld?

The dead from the OT is referring to those spiritually dead, but physically alive. Those dead at the GWT, are both physically dead and spiritually dead, and about to be ultimately dead in the second death of the LOF. They never were born with the second birth from above, but they will certainly be rewarded the second death.

 

[Timtofly]

But once again thats not what it says it says "And should destroy those who destroy the earth" the unsaved are judged here just in in chapter 20 thus these are one and the same events.

It doesn't say some of them you added "some destruction" you down played it to fit your view.

And you changed those that destroy the earth today, with those 1,000 years from now who do not destroy anything. All they do is march across the earth as if to take over the throne from Jesus Christ the King. They don't even get a chance to do anything but are consumed by fire just for thinking about it. Where is Jesus sitting on a throne currently, that humans from all over the earth, can march against?

The earth is being destroyed now because of sin and death. There is no sin and decay in the Millennium destroying the earth via human works.

 

[Marty fox]

Hey there Marty,
What do you mean by saved dead destroying the earth?

I think the unsaved are judged and destroyed at the same time the Prophets ,saints and all those who fear your name great and small are rewarded.

Gods wrath and Gods righteous judgment are the same thing and happen on the same day all who have believed are rewarded...,


2thess 1
5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.

Of course your right that’s what I was saying in the previous post. My question was what ewq was saying I was kind of saying really is that what you think? To him

 

[jeffweeder]

Of course your right that’s what I was saying in the previous post. My question was what ewq was saying I was kind of saying really is that what you think? To him

Thats good. God bless Marty.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The 7th trumpet sounds before the thousand years start. It is when the dead and living saints are judged and rewarded. The unsaved living will face wrath and after that those alive will be ruled with a rod of iron which is part of the reward given at the 7th trump.

It talks about the dead being judged separately from the saints being rewarded. So, to say that both of those statements in Revelation 11:18 are talking about the saints would make the verse redundant. No, the dead being judged at the seventh trumpet are the same dead being judged in Revelation 20:11-15. That is obvious to any objective reader of scripture, which you clearly are not.

There clearly are parallels in the book of Revelation. Your inability to recognize that is your downfall.

 

[ewq1938]

It talks about the dead being judged separately from the saints being rewarded. So, to say that both of those statements in Revelation 11:18 are talking about the saints would make the verse redundant. No, the dead being judged at the seventh trumpet are the same dead being judged in Revelation 20:11-15. That is obvious to any objective reader of scripture, which you clearly are not.

What is obvious to most, and not you, is that Revelation 20 separates the judgment and resurrection of the saved from the the judgment and resurrection of the unsaved. This is thus true of any scriptural passage of the same subject. It's just clearer in Revelation 20 than in some others. this is why Amillennialism prefers passages outside of Revelation so the truth of the two days of resurrection and judgment can be obscured and denied.

Just read Revelation 20. It shows people being judged and resurrected BEFORE the thousand years and then show other people being judged and resurrected AFTER the thousand years. Never forget "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" proves the Premillennialism interpretation. Some of the dead lived again BEFORE the thousand years and "the rest" lived again AFTER the thousand years.

 

[Marty fox]

Not the same events, or same people or same time. Just read Revelation 20. It shows people being judged and resurrected BEFORE the thousand years and then show other people being judged and resurrected AFTER the thousand years. Never forget "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" proves the Premillennialism interpretation. Some of the dead lived again BEFORE the thousand years and "the rest" lived again AFTER the thousand years.

Thats doesn’t prove premillennialism the ones who are raised first are raised spiritually.

Colossians 3:1
Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

 

[jeffweeder]

What is obvious to most, and not you, is that Revelation 20 separates the judgment and resurrection of the saved from the the judgment and resurrection of the unsaved. This is thus true of any scriptural passage of the same subject. It's just clearer in Revelation 20 than in some others. this is why Amillennialism prefers passages outside of Revelation so the truth of the two days of resurrection and judgment can be obscured and denied.

Just read Revelation 20. It shows people being judged and resurrected BEFORE the thousand years and then show other people being judged and resurrected AFTER the thousand years. Never forget "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished" proves the Premillennialism interpretation. Some of the dead lived again BEFORE the thousand years and "the rest" lived again AFTER the thousand years.

You have it backwards. Your view of Rev 20 contradicts the more straightforward passages in the rest of the NT regarding the judgment of the just and the unjust. There are many of them that you will do well to listen to.


Rev 22
12 “Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
14 Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city.

At his coming we enter the city not your millennium.

Jude

　14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

The Lord executes his judgment on all the ungodly at the Lords coming , not a 1000 years later.


Matthew 13:40
So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age.

49 So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, 50 and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2thess 1
5 This is a plain indication of God’s righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you indeed are suffering. 6 For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified among His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—because our testimony to you was believed.


I could go on.

 

[Marty fox]

The unsaved walking around on the earth. There are no Nations in sheol, unless you are relying on some Greek mythological Nations in the underworld?

The dead from the OT is referring to those spiritually dead, but physically alive. Those dead at the GWT, are both physically dead and spiritually dead, and about to be ultimately dead in the second death of the LOF. They never were born with the second birth from above, but they will certainly be rewarded the second death.

Sorry but I don’t understand why you wrote what you wrote what do you mean when you said “the unsaved walking around on the earth”

 

[ewq1938]

You have it backwards. Your view of Rev 20 contradicts the more straightforward passages in the rest of the NT regarding the judgment of the just and the unjust.

It's not my view of Revelation but is what Revelation 20 tells us. I didn't make up that after the first resurrection of the dead "the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished". That proves Amillennialism wrong all by itself because Amillennialism teaches there wasn't a first group of the dead to resurrect before the thousand years starts. Then, ignoring the facts of Revelation 20, Amillennialism wrongly interprets all other related passages.

 

[Marty fox]

And you changed those that destroy the earth today, with those 1,000 years from now who do not destroy anything. All they do is march across the earth as if to take over the throne from Jesus Christ the King. They don't even get a chance to do anything but are consumed by fire just for thinking about it. Where is Jesus sitting on a throne currently, that humans from all over the earth, can march against?

The earth is being destroyed now because of sin and death. There is no sin and decay in the Millennium destroying the earth via human works.

Don’t you believe that people sin in the millennium?

Jesus is sitting on His throne now heaven until He finally returns.

Psalm 110.1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Did you notice that it’s the Father who makes Jesus enemies His foot stool?

Let’s read the whole Psalm

1 The Lord says to my lord:

“Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet.”

2 The Lord will extend your mighty scepter from Zion, saying,
“Rule in the midst of your enemies!”
3 Your troops will be willing
on your day of battle.
Arrayed in holy splendor,
your young men will come to you
like dew from the morning’s womb.

4 The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
“You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek.”

5 The Lord is at your right hand[c];
he will crush kings on the day of his wrath.
6 He will judge the nations, heaping up the dead
and crushing the rulers of the whole earth.
7 He will drink from a brook along the way,[d]
and so he will lift his head high.


Psalm 110 tells us that Jesus will sit at the right hand of the Father until the Father puts all of Jesus’ enemies under His

In Revelation chapter 20:7-10 satan carries out his final assault on the church after the thousand years and is then cast into the lake of fire.

Thus Psalm 110 teaches us that Jesus won’t leave the Fathers right hand until He crushes the kings of the earth’ cast satan into the lake of fire and then judges the nations as also shown in Revelation chapter 20.

 

[jeffweeder]

It's not my view of Revelation but is what Revelation 20 tells us.

You clearly misunderstand what the first resurrection is based on the evidence of those many scriptures that contradict your view.
John is revealing to us what he revealed in Jn 5 in regard to how we escape the Judgment of the second death. John wouldnt contradict himself surely.

Jn 5
24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life

This is the first resurrection (transfer from death to life ) we experience as new born babes and the most important one we will get acquainted with. Participate in this reality now and you will in no way come into the judgment of the second death at the GWT.

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Without being bodily resurrected we have confidence that we will not come under the judgment of the second death. Those who hear and believe are covered and cleansed forever by his own blood, and the second death hath no power at all over us.


REV 20
6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years

 

[Marty fox]

If it’s the Father who puts Jesus enemies as His footstool then is Revelation 19 a literal coming before the thousand years?

It can’t be because king David told us that Jesus will sit at the Fathers right hand until all of His enemies are destroyed. Revelation 19 shows the symbolic judgement of the sword of Jesus mouth His word which condemns all of His enemies.

 

[ewq1938]

You clearly misunderstand what the first resurrection is based on the evidence of those many scriptures that contradict your view.

My understanding of the first resurrection is correct, yours is not.

 

[ewq1938]

It can’t be because king David told us that Jesus will sit at the Fathers right hand until all of His enemies are destroyed.

David did not say that.

 

[Marty fox]

David did not say that.

Humm really?

Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

 

[jeffweeder]

My understanding of the first resurrection is correct, yours is not.

Why can't you back up your view with scripture like I did??? All you have here Bro is your opinion.

 

[jeffweeder]

Humm really?

Psalm 110:1
Of David. A psalm. The LORD says to my lord: “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”

Amen . Scripture makes all the difference yes?