The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[Randy Kluth]

Have you read ewq1938's posts, Randy? He is as hostile as they come. But, there's not a peep from you about that. Interesting.

I've had my run ins with ewq, but not for some time. Why stir things up when they're going well? Besides, our purpose should be to try to cover each others' sins--not expose them. The only time I expose them is when it seems there is no other alternative.

 

[ewq1938]

It doesn't say that either. It says He will descend from heaven in the same manner that He ascended to heaven.

He rose from the Earth into heaven, and he will return the same way. No reason to discuss further until you understand that.

 

[ewq1938]

I've had my run ins with ewq, but not for some time. Why stir things up when they're going well?

It's SI that is the hostile one...him bringing this accusation up to you now without any real reason is evidence of it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I've had my run ins with ewq, but not for some time. Why stir things up when they're going well?

LOL. So, this is your excuse for saying nothing about a Premil displaying the same kind of behavior you're complaining about from an Amil? Really? Wow.

Besides, our purpose should be to try to cover each others' sins--not expose them. The only time I expose them is when it seems there is no other alternative.

If you read ewq's posts objectively without giving him a pass for being a Premil, then you would not see any other alternative regarding his posting style, either.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It's SI that is the hostile one...him bringing this accusation up to you now without any real reason is evidence of it.

LOL. Who do you think you're fooling here? Do I need to gather up a list of your insults to prove this? I think everyone here who has read your posts knows how insulting you often are.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

He rose from the Earth into heaven, and he will return the same way. No reason to discuss further until you understand that.

How is that the manner in which He ascended to heaven? Leaving earth has nothing to do with the manner He ascended, which was visibly and bodily. Figures you wouldn't want to discuss it further since you know deep down that you're wrong about this, but wont admit it.

 

[Keraz]

Bible doctrine is not formed out of just one passage. You have to be very naive to believe that.

I disprove the false AMill theory by many ways. On is the proof of the 7000 year time for mankind and that we are now nearly at the end of the 6000 years and the 1000 years Millennium follows the glorious Return of Jesus.

LOL. Do you stick to your hyper-literal approach to interpreting Revelation 20 in Revelation 19 as well? Should we believe that Jesus will literally come down from heaven while literally riding on a white horse? Should we believe that there will be a literal sword coming out of His mouth that He uses to slay His enemies? I mean, that is what it clearly says, so that must be the case, right?

I'm not stupid, but you are for even trying to use such ridiculous rebuttals.

That's not going to happen. The amillennialist view is true and has overwhelming support from scripture. You are the one who should be concerned about a loss because of your false teaching.

I had never even heard of the AMill idea until, maybe a year or 2 ago.
Frankly, I am astounded that anyone buys it. Luckily it is Prophesied that the eyes of the blinded and the ears unstopped of those who have confused themselves by believing false teachings; AFTER the Lord's Day of fiery wrath.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I disprove the false AMill theory by many ways.

You can't do it with just one passage, that's for sure. That's ridiculous for you to have even said that.

On is the proof of the 7000 year time for mankind and that we are now nearly at the end of the 6000 years and the 1000 years Millennium follows the glorious Return of Jesus.

Proof? There is no proof of such a thing.

I'm not stupid, but you are for even trying to use such ridiculous rebuttals.

So, now you're calling me stupid. Do you not know that you will be judged by the same measure that you judge others? That's a bad thing for you.

You are the one who was trying to say everything means what it says. Are you going to take that back now after I showed how foolish that statement was?

I had never even heard of the AMill idea until, maybe a year or 2 ago.

So what? That doesn't make it untrue. Many millions of others heard of it, but somehow you, one person, not having heard of it, means it can't be true? Ridiculous.

Frankly, I am astounded that anyone buys it.

I'm equally astounded at some of the things you believe. Completely unbiblical nonsense.

Luckily it is Prophesied that the eyes of the blinded and the ears unstopped of those who have confused themselves by believing false teachings; AFTER the Lord's Day of fiery wrath.

You have certainly confused yourself with your imaginary 7000 year doctrine that is not taught anywhere in scripture.

 

[jeffweeder]

I had never even heard of the AMill idea until, maybe a year or 2 ago.

Why did you leave it so long to start reading the NT Keraz?

 

[Keraz]

You can't do it with just one passage, that's for sure. That's ridiculous for you to have even said that.

I have posted the proofs of the 7000 year Plan of God for mankind, many times. You seem unable to comprehend them.

You are the one who was trying to say everything means what it says. Are you going to take that back now after I showed how foolish that statement was?

This sort of nasty accusation, is your bad.
Common sense is how we can see allegories and metaphors in the Prophesies. Most of which are easily discerned or explained by the Bible itself.

Why did you leave it so long to start reading the NT Keraz?

The New Testament never teaches that we are now in the Millennium, with Jesus as King of the world. It does Promise that in the future.
For now, such an idea is a joke, as He is doing a mighty bad job of ruling us.

 

[Randy Kluth]

LOL. So, this is your excuse for saying nothing about a Premil displaying the same kind of behavior you're complaining about from an Amil? Really? Wow.

If you read ewq's posts objectively without giving him a pass for being a Premil, then you would not see any other alternative regarding his posting style, either.

I don't read every post.

 

[ewq1938]

(Each of these issues have been presented in threads in various forums by people who believe in Amillennialism. These may or may not be held by every individual of that doctrine.)

Each person who believes in Amillennialism is a good person with good intent regarding scriptural interpretation but Premillennialism very much disagrees with their doctrine, their way of interpretation, and their exegesis of various scriptures. In this list you will see the many problems contained within Amillennialism.



40. Did the false expectations the Pharisees had about the Messiah match the expectations of Amillennialists?


Yes.

The Pharisees expected the Messiah to rule right away but he didn't. His rule would come far into the future. Amillennialists make the same error the Pharisees did by wanting the rule over the nations with a rod of iron to be happening now when the truth is that rule comes in the future. That's Premillennialism.

Don't make the same Amillennialistic error the Pharisees did.

 

[quietthinker]

(Each of these issues have been presented in threads in various forums by people who believe in Amillennialism. These may or may not be held by every individual of that doctrine.)

Each person who believes in Amillennialism is a good person with good intent regarding scriptural interpretation but Premillennialism very much disagrees with their doctrine, their way of interpretation, and their exegesis of various scriptures. In this list you will see the many problems contained within Amillennialism.



40. Did the false expectations the Pharisees had about the Messiah match the expectations of Amillennialists?


Yes.

The Pharisees expected the Messiah to rule right away but he didn't. His rule would come far into the future. Amillennialists make the same error the Pharisees did by wanting the rule over the nations with a rod of iron to be happening now when the truth is that rule comes in the future. That's Premillennialism.

Don't make the same Amillennialistic error the Pharisees did.

I'd like to put in this bit of information:-

Iron was the strongest metal known in the days of the NT writers and love is the strongest 'force' in the Universe. Ruling with a rod of iron does not mean oppression.....it means what Galatians 5:22-23 describes as the fruits of the spirit.

Jesus will rule with love. He does not rule as the rulers of this world rule, by domination and forcing compliance.
Jesus sojourn here on Earth was evidence of that......or is it preferred as the Jews did? 'we have no King but Caesar' they proclaimed and called loudly for the crucifixion of Jesus preferring the release of Barabbas

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus will rule with love. He does not rule as the rulers of this world rule, by domination and forcing compliance.

Tough love does rule by forced compliance.

Jesus sojourn here on Earth was evidence of that.

No, it doesn't. Christ did not come to rule the first time.

 

[Zao is life]

Maybe there are things that are correct and incorrect about both Amillennialism and Premillennialism.

Though there are major scriptural problems (plural) with Amillennialism, there is a major scriptural problem with Premillennialism also:

The blessings promised in Revelation 7 to those who came out of great tribulation are the same as the blessings promised in Revelation 21 (the new heavens and new earth) to those who overcome.

Revelation 7
16 These are the ones who came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.
16 They will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.

Revelation 21
3b Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God.
4 And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes. And there will be no more death, nor mourning, nor crying out, nor will there be any more pain; for the first things passed away.
6b It is done. I am the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who thirsts I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He who overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be his God, and he will be My son.
8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

There is no thousand year gap implied in the above fact in-between what those who come out of great tribulation will experience, and the new heavens and new earth.

.. and all Premillennialists would do well not to fail to acknowledge this fact if they expect all Amillennialists to acknowledge the major scriptural problems (plural) that their interpretation of Revelation 20 presents - which I won't go into because it's not necessary, since it's already all over this thread, and I have also done so in other posts in other threads.

Also, most Premillennialists and Amillennialists view the dead [Greek: nekrós], whom John in Revelation 20:11-15 saw being judged at a time when death and hades "deliver up the dead in them", as a reference to the resurrection of the unjust.

But there is no mention in Jesus' statements in John 6:39-40, 44, or in Paul's statements in 1 Corinthians 15:22-24; 1 Corinthians 15: 51-57 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 of anyone except those who are Christ's at His coming being resurrected when Christ returns.

There is also something else with regards to this that warrants paying attention to:-

In Revelation 20:4-6 it is only those who John saw alive after they were beheaded for their testimony to Christ and refusal to worship the beast that are said to live and reign with Him. The verses are silent on all the other saints who will be resurrected at the time of Christ's return.

Adam was living forever in paradise after God breathed His life into Adam, during the sabbath rest of God. Yet God allowed Satan into paradise to deceive mankind. Adam knew exactly what God had said, and he knew that "you will not surely die" was the same as saying that God was a liar.

The Son of man and last Adam (Jesus) IS the resurrection and the life. If there were (ever) to be a repeat of what mankind did in paradise while he was alive and living forever during the sabbath rest of God, there will be no 2nd sacrifice for sins, no 2nd resurrection of Christ (who IS the resurrection and the life), and therefore no 2nd resurrection from the 2nd death either.

Adam was tested, and disobeyed - but those who refused to worship Satan or his beast or the image of the beast were tested, and overcame. The 2nd death will have no power over them and they will live and reign with Christ (over all the other resurrected saints?).

When does the turn come for all the other saints to be tested in the way Adam was?

Whether Preterists, Partial-Preterists, Futurists, Premillennialists, Amillennialist or Postmillennialists, many Christians are "experts" on the millennium, even though both John and Daniel were told,

"But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he will begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as He has declared to His servants the prophets." (Revelation 10:7).

"Go, Daniel! For the words are closed up and sealed until the end-time. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried. But the wicked shall do wickedly. And none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand." (Daniel 12:9-10).

And so we argue and even fight about what both prophets said and what each meant, instead of believing the Word which tells us that there are some things that remain sealed until the time of the end.

 

[covenantee]

Amillennialists make the same error the Pharisees did by wanting the rule over the nations with a rod of iron to be happening now

Provide a link to any post in which an amil "wants the rule over the nations with a rod of iron to be happening now".

 

[ewq1938]

There is no thousand year gap implied in the above fact in-between what those who come out of great tribulation will experience, and the new heavens and new earth.

Parts of Rev 7 are from the eternity era, the timeframe of Rev 21. That's why similar language is found there. No thousand year gap would be found in either passage because the thousand years happens before the timeframe of both chapters.

 

[Zao is life]

Parts of Rev 7 are from the eternity era, the timeframe of Rev 21. That's why similar language is found there. No thousand year gap would be found in either passage because the thousand years happens before the timeframe of both chapters.

Even so, Adam was tested, and disobeyed - but those who refused to worship Satan or his beast or the image of the beast were tested, and overcame. The 2nd death will have no power over them and they will live and reign with Christ.

When does the turn come for all the other saints to be tested in the way Adam was?

Revelation 20:4-6 speaks only about those who refused to worship Satan or his beast or the image of the beast.

@ewq1938 "Even so" does not mean that I necessarily agree with what you said above, because in order to say it you needed to first insert a thousand years into Revelation 7:

Revelation 7
14b These are the ones who came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and have whitened them in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore after a thousand years they are before the throne of God, and they serve Him day and night in His temple. And He sitting on the throne will dwell among them.
16 After a thousand years they will not hunger any more, nor thirst any more, nor will the sun light on them, nor any heat.
17 For after a thousand years the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne will feed them and will lead them to the fountains of living waters. And God will wipe away all tears from their eyes.

 

[quietthinker]

Tough love does rule by forced compliance.




No, it doesn't. Christ did not come to rule the first time.

Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today and forever.
Jesus, ie how he related while here on Earth sees, feels, behaves just as the Father has always seen, felt and behaved.
Check the beginning of Hebrews 1

 

[ewq1938]

@ewq1938 "Even so" does not mean that I necessarily agree with what you said above, because in order to say it you needed to first insert a thousand years into Revelation 7

Do you also think that needs inserted into Rev 21 and 22? Why do you think past events have to be inserted into passages that come after?