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David H.

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this is a nice effort but, you don't have to knock yourself out to simply see what's going on. you don't need scripture to prove global decadence. and the enforcement that all should accept it, and not speak against it.

keep your eyes on Israel and your watch will be informative.

Global decadence is obvious and easy to spot, The infiltrators of the church are well entrenched and hard to Spot, and requires Spiritual eyes to see.

Satan fights from two towers, one is Overt and obvious and is wicked, the other is in the guise of religion and covert. When you are attacking and dealing with the overt wickedness of the world, Satan will send his infiltrators in to ally with you and gain your trust, and to exalt them to high positions in the church only to introduce their false doctrines from there.
 

marks

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It helps if you understand that although the beast and false prophet oppose God, they were still sent by God to test humanity, to divide those who love the truth from those that love lies and take their pleasure in unrighteousness. God keeps them hidden until their purpose is fulfilled and then He reveals them in judgment.
I like this!! Extremely succinct!

Much love!
 

Desire Of All Nations

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Yes there is a Godly "authority" structure in the church of those God has anointed and called to leadership, My Post is dealing with those who are unanointed (antichrist definitionally). Elders of the faith should rise to leadership naturally in the church. What Nicolaitan doctrine teaches is that there is a priestly class that rules over the laity, which keeps the masses subservient and in a state of infancy spiritually. The way it should be is that as we mature in Christ all believers grow into elders, and become part of that leadership depending on the gifts bestowed upon them for the edification of the Body. Nicolaitanism keeps the Laity from maturation by elevating themselves above the Laity and discouraging the laity from thinking and growing themselves.
I have to completely disagree with you here. The doctrine of the Nicolaitans is not what you say it is. The doctrine of the Nicolaitans concerns mixing biblical Christianity with paganism. Also, what you're espousing about how all believers are supposed to grow into elders is also false because this reflects the same attitude Korah, Miriam, and Aaron had when they accused Moses of elevating himself above the other Israelites as their leader, even though God was the One who ordained Moses to be at that position of leadership.

Furthermore, Paul clearly stated in 1 Cor. 12 that God appoints the leaders in His Church. They don't "grow into elders". In verse 29 of the same chapter, Paul rhetorically states that not everybody in God's Church was meant to play the same roles. The bottom line is, there is no part of your claim that is actually taught in the Bible. "The way it should be" according to you or anybody else doesn't matter. God already decided how it was going to be and how it was to best function when Christ began building His Church.

This is not how the Apostolic church was, John In 1 John 2 spoke of the unction we all have in the Holy Ghost, If you read that you will see how he elevates and upholds all believers as having the unction to see what he is speaking of. (1 John 2:20-21, 1 John 2:27)

Jesus Himself taught the apostles not to Lord over one another as the Pharisees do and the Gentiles do. (Matthew 23:1-12, Luke 22:24-27)
This is also false theology. The Bible clearly shows God declaring Peter to be the lead apostle in His Church(Matt. 16:18) in the same way He made Moses the lead minister of the Israelite congregation. When Christ told the disciples not to lord their positions over one another, it was clearly within the context of abusing their authority. In 1 Pet. 5:5, Peter told the lay members to submit to their elders. That is a clear teaching that everybody was not put in the Church to be elders or leaders. There isn't a single passage in the Bible that supports the lie you're telling.

Did God send revelation to everybody in the Church that salvation was extended towards Gentiles? No. He informed Peter(Acts 10), who then informed the other apostles(Acts 15:7). Did Paul go to all the Church members to be validated as an apostle? No. He went to Peter in Jerusalem(Gal. 1:18). Did Christ give everybody in the Church the ability to loose or bind something? No, it was given to Peter(Matt. 16:18-19). Just to be 100% clear, this isn't an argument in support of papal authority, but it is an argument for the fact that God's Church has a hierarchy where God put people in positions of authority over others for the sake of doctrinal unity.
Like I said at the outset, there are Brothers and sisters in Christ in all these churches, and this post deals with the infiltration in the church of wickedness. I do not doubt Luther was anointed by God, Or Wesley, or any of the other "angels" of the churches, But each of the movements became corrupted by the Nicolaitans that infiltrated these movements. A Prime example of this is the pentecostal movement of the modern century, Born in revival, with no real "leaders", Only to be usurped by self aggrandizing men who introduced their doctrines of Balaam and and now we have word faith, NAR, and all the heresies of those leaders as the face of the Pentecostal movement.
You apparently believe the Reformers were anointed by God to bring a better way of leadership, which is woefully wrong. The epistles show that God's Church has an established hierarchy where He is at the very top and the lay members are at the very bottom with divinely appointed leaders over them. You also imply the Reformers treated everybody equally when most of them like Luther and Zwingli used their theological authority to abuse people. Do some unbiased research and you can see for yourself that these men were not unlike the pope they sought to escape.

The idea that there are Christians in all churches is also a Protestant lie. Christ clearly said He was building 1 church, and Paul taught in the Corinthian letters and Ephesians that this church is completely unified in doctrinal beliefs and practices. That doesn't sound anything like the mass of disagreement in Catholicism and Protestantism, but at least Catholics understand the fact that there is only 1 church on this planet that is doing God's work.
 

David H.

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This is also false theology.

Jesus' teaching to the Apostles is "false theology"? I am sorry, but if your church (assuming you are Catholic) teaches otherwise, then they are the false apostles.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. (Ephesians 6:12)
 

Davy

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. As some of you here are aware, I see the letters to the seven churches of revelation as being both to current churches existing in John's time, as well as being prophetic of church ages. Within them is a wealth of information of church history throughout the two thousand year the church has existed. But there is also found therein a history of the mystery of iniquity at work in those churches. Much like the church has grown and changed over its history, so too has the adversary altered his ways to infiltrate and attack the church. This post will focus on that.
....


God Bless.

Not bad.

I don't agree with Dispensationalist philosophy on their 'church ages' idea. I believe those 7 Messages are still in effect today for all... Churches. Only the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia represent Christ's very elect that knew about the false Jews of the "synagogue of Satan". Those two Churches Lord Jesus had no problem with.

Thus the "synagogue of Satan" idea Lord Jesus described is a lot deeper than what you covered. It goes back to the early days of Israel and the crept in unawares that were always tempting Israel to do pagan idolatry. Many of those Canaanites God told Israel to destroy instead crept in among Israel and became Jews, and became a thorn in Israel's side.
 

Keiw

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. As some of you here are aware, I see the letters to the seven churches of revelation as being both to current churches existing in John's time, as well as being prophetic of church ages. Within them is a wealth of information of church history throughout the two thousand year the church has existed. But there is also found therein a history of the mystery of iniquity at work in those churches. Much like the church has grown and changed over its history, so too has the adversary altered his ways to infiltrate and attack the church. This post will focus on that.

If this post convicts you, Go to the cross on your Knees in repentance and seek God. It has been a hard post for me to write because there are many in all the churches mentioned Below who are brothers and sisters in Christ and is not an attack on your church or denomination, or sect. Many of the movements were led by anointed men of God only to have their authority and movement usurped by Satan.

False Apostles: Scriptures: 2 Corinthians 11:12-13, Revelation 2:2

In Paul's defense of his apostleship found in 1 Cor. 11, Paul defends his apostleship by the "stripes" which he suffered, and counters this with the false apostles seeking apostleship as a glorious calling and to raise themselves up in the world. (If you have not read this chapter, do so, as it is a literary masterpiece)

The Mystery of iniquity must first infiltrate anything God builds, and the place the mystery of iniquity seeks to infiltrate more than anything is church leadership. Once there, the adversary can plant his seeds of heresy, and His false doctrines and lies. We see this fight beginning in the Epistles of the New Testament and continuing on in the first letter to the church of Ephesus. Just about every Epistle in the new testament deals with these false apostles, teachers, and prophets, and their doctrines and heresies. At 90 ad when John received Revelation Gnosticism was the prevailing heresy that was influencing the church.

Nicolaitans: Scriptures: Revelation 2:6, Revelation 2:14-15

Once those false Apostles and teachers have a foothold in the church they will begin to act to keep their power and status. If You notice the two verses above we see deeds evolve into doctrines. Now there is a lot of views on what the heresy of the Nicolaitans was in the first century, But Prophetically the name means to "rule over the laity". This to me is the Prophetic implication of Nicolaitanism. At first a false apostle will do deeds to exalt themselves, works that glorify themselves, afterward, these deeds become doctrines that must be obeyed, where agreement with this or that doctrine is vital to membership in the Body, and disagreement is worthy of excommunication, thus rule by fear is established in the body by a leader that rules over them. These are the "doctrines of Balaam" That cause the faithful to stumble, and thus be unable to confront these leaders in the churches, because they hold damning information on these people. A classic case of this is the confessionals of the RCC as well as some of the counseling aspects used in the evangelical churches of today which mix psychology and Christianity to create a Doctor/ patient relationship. the latter being more subtle.

Synagogue of Satan: Scriptures: Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9

The second avenue for these false apostles to take when their power is fully entrenched, is to begin outright persecution of those who disagree with them and desire the truth. We see this in the church of Smyrna. When this church gets so big and powerful with false apostle and nicolaitans at the helm, controlling earthly powers such as nations. This is when the church comes allied with "Satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13) and instead of ruling with mere church authority they have military might behind their decrees. Examples of this include the inquisition, The church of England's persecution of sects such as the Puritan's, And Calvin's Purges in Geneva and other parts of Europe.

Jezebel Doctrines: Scripture: Revelation 2:20-24, 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Once empowered, whether with Nicolaitan rule or that backed by Satan's seat, the mystery of Iniquity now seeks to take the place of God, to declare them self God. That comes by declaring themselves as having divine revelation from God, and being the voice of God over the people. In the case of Jezebel, she turned the grace of God into lasciviousness, saying it was Ok to fornicate, to eat foods sacrificed to idols, and by these idolatries to exert emotional and psychological control over the people. Manipulation of the very desires of the people. (Although this could be a post on it's own, I will limit this for now). Examples of this include the catholic payments for indulgences, and much of what we see in the Prosperity preachers on TV Today, and even in some of the evangelical emergent churches teachings.

Apathy: Scripture: Revelation 3:1-3

In these Latter three church ages, The mystery of Iniquity is so ingrained that it begins to transform the members of those churches, the first thing to happen is that apathy sets in. Discernment of wickedness is so far gone that even the loudest of voices trying to expose that wickedness are shrugged off. The church that was vibrant and alive, becomes dead. This happened to the protestant reformation, within years what was a liberating and vibrant movement adopted the many of the same Nicolaitan doctrines and Jezebel manipulations of the RCC that they protested against, and tried to reform, as voices were raised in opposition to them they were ignored as the Protestants began to build their earthly kingdoms, Thus the daughter of the harlot began to be just like her mother.

Synagogue of Satan part 2, Textualism : Scripture: Revelation 3:9-11, Romans 7:6

Just like the Nicolaitan's in leadership, once given power, they can begin to beat the one's who would stand up against them, so to in the members of the church this drive sets in place. This is when the deeds of apathy, become the doctrine of apathy. The manipulation becomes the doctrine, and any who go against the doctrine of the scribes are cast out or worse. This was the the death of the fundamentalist movement, around the turn of the 19th century, as it became so entrenched in hyper dispensationalism that when voices called out for holiness they disposed of them for their scribe inspired religion. Another example of this is what Judaism had become at the time of Christ, to the point that they had no ears to hear the truth of who Jesus was. So Much so that they crucified their messiah. It is the Total lack of hearing divine revelation from the Spirit, and a reliance on the Letter of the law (Bible).

Complacency: Scripture: Revelation 3:15-18

The final nail in the coffin is complacency. This is the self deception that the church member who has fallen victim to the manipulation of the false apostles finally settles into, and where much of those who call themselves Christian are living in today. The deception is that they are "good with God", and need of nothing. They have stagnated in their growth, to the point that they see no need for growth Spiritually. They have reached the point of total seduction by the mystery of Iniquity, Just like the leaders of the church of Thyatira were seduced by Jezebel. Examples of this are the modern evangelical churches of today that have become "seeker sensitive" Preaching a Gospel devoid of conviction and repentance.

The mystery of iniquity takes hold in the leadership of the church, and from there it infects into the people in the church it's lies. This rider on the white Horse was unleashed When the church was born on Pentecost and began its attempts to conquer with a bow with no arrows, and crown, and went forth to conquer. He continues to this day restrained by the Holy Ghost from accomplishing his mission of turning the virgin church into His harlot, yet many have fallen victim to his persecution and seduction along the way. In everyone of these churches there are those who overcome, and those who fail to do so. Paul writes: "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19) In the end the man of sin will rise up and deceive a good majority of the people who call themselves Christians, and stand in the Holy place and declare himself as the anointed one. There have been many that have declared themselves as anointed who are not from Popes to Protestant church leaders, Just as John said there are many antichrists even in his time. But this last one will be believed by the majority of "Christians" (Quotation marks intended) and fall away to following the man of sin. This is why the battle Satan is fighting is for your mind. He does not just want to declare himself God, He wants you to worship his man who does so And Satan himself who empowers the man held as God.

God Bless.


One of the absolute worst things that one can tell another--You are saved-- He does not know, yet those believe it and do hardly nothing of what Jesus said man should do. Obeying = proof of ones love-every teaching, there is no pick and choose. Everything Jesus taught originated with God first( John 5:30) he meant every word. True followers live by every word to the best of their abilities. I say-only blind guides tell others-you are saved-RUN FROM THEM.
 
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David in NJ

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. As some of you here are aware, I see the letters to the seven churches of revelation as being both to current churches existing in John's time, as well as being prophetic of church ages. Within them is a wealth of information of church history throughout the two thousand year the church has existed. But there is also found therein a history of the mystery of iniquity at work in those churches. Much like the church has grown and changed over its history, so too has the adversary altered his ways to infiltrate and attack the church. This post will focus on that.

If this post convicts you, Go to the cross on your Knees in repentance and seek God. It has been a hard post for me to write because there are many in all the churches mentioned Below who are brothers and sisters in Christ and is not an attack on your church or denomination, or sect. Many of the movements were led by anointed men of God only to have their authority and movement usurped by Satan.

False Apostles: Scriptures: 2 Corinthians 11:12-13, Revelation 2:2

In Paul's defense of his apostleship found in 1 Cor. 11, Paul defends his apostleship by the "stripes" which he suffered, and counters this with the false apostles seeking apostleship as a glorious calling and to raise themselves up in the world. (If you have not read this chapter, do so, as it is a literary masterpiece)

The Mystery of iniquity must first infiltrate anything God builds, and the place the mystery of iniquity seeks to infiltrate more than anything is church leadership. Once there, the adversary can plant his seeds of heresy, and His false doctrines and lies. We see this fight beginning in the Epistles of the New Testament and continuing on in the first letter to the church of Ephesus. Just about every Epistle in the new testament deals with these false apostles, teachers, and prophets, and their doctrines and heresies. At 90 ad when John received Revelation Gnosticism was the prevailing heresy that was influencing the church.

Nicolaitans: Scriptures: Revelation 2:6, Revelation 2:14-15

Once those false Apostles and teachers have a foothold in the church they will begin to act to keep their power and status. If You notice the two verses above we see deeds evolve into doctrines. Now there is a lot of views on what the heresy of the Nicolaitans was in the first century, But Prophetically the name means to "rule over the laity". This to me is the Prophetic implication of Nicolaitanism. At first a false apostle will do deeds to exalt themselves, works that glorify themselves, afterward, these deeds become doctrines that must be obeyed, where agreement with this or that doctrine is vital to membership in the Body, and disagreement is worthy of excommunication, thus rule by fear is established in the body by a leader that rules over them. These are the "doctrines of Balaam" That cause the faithful to stumble, and thus be unable to confront these leaders in the churches, because they hold damning information on these people. A classic case of this is the confessionals of the RCC as well as some of the counseling aspects used in the evangelical churches of today which mix psychology and Christianity to create a Doctor/ patient relationship. the latter being more subtle.

Synagogue of Satan: Scriptures: Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9

The second avenue for these false apostles to take when their power is fully entrenched, is to begin outright persecution of those who disagree with them and desire the truth. We see this in the church of Smyrna. When this church gets so big and powerful with false apostle and nicolaitans at the helm, controlling earthly powers such as nations. This is when the church comes allied with "Satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13) and instead of ruling with mere church authority they have military might behind their decrees. Examples of this include the inquisition, The church of England's persecution of sects such as the Puritan's, And Calvin's Purges in Geneva and other parts of Europe.

Jezebel Doctrines: Scripture: Revelation 2:20-24, 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Once empowered, whether with Nicolaitan rule or that backed by Satan's seat, the mystery of Iniquity now seeks to take the place of God, to declare them self God. That comes by declaring themselves as having divine revelation from God, and being the voice of God over the people. In the case of Jezebel, she turned the grace of God into lasciviousness, saying it was Ok to fornicate, to eat foods sacrificed to idols, and by these idolatries to exert emotional and psychological control over the people. Manipulation of the very desires of the people. (Although this could be a post on it's own, I will limit this for now). Examples of this include the catholic payments for indulgences, and much of what we see in the Prosperity preachers on TV Today, and even in some of the evangelical emergent churches teachings.

Apathy: Scripture: Revelation 3:1-3

In these Latter three church ages, The mystery of Iniquity is so ingrained that it begins to transform the members of those churches, the first thing to happen is that apathy sets in. Discernment of wickedness is so far gone that even the loudest of voices trying to expose that wickedness are shrugged off. The church that was vibrant and alive, becomes dead. This happened to the protestant reformation, within years what was a liberating and vibrant movement adopted the many of the same Nicolaitan doctrines and Jezebel manipulations of the RCC that they protested against, and tried to reform, as voices were raised in opposition to them they were ignored as the Protestants began to build their earthly kingdoms, Thus the daughter of the harlot began to be just like her mother.

Synagogue of Satan part 2, Textualism : Scripture: Revelation 3:9-11, Romans 7:6

Just like the Nicolaitan's in leadership, once given power, they can begin to beat the one's who would stand up against them, so to in the members of the church this drive sets in place. This is when the deeds of apathy, become the doctrine of apathy. The manipulation becomes the doctrine, and any who go against the doctrine of the scribes are cast out or worse. This was the the death of the fundamentalist movement, around the turn of the 19th century, as it became so entrenched in hyper dispensationalism that when voices called out for holiness they disposed of them for their scribe inspired religion. Another example of this is what Judaism had become at the time of Christ, to the point that they had no ears to hear the truth of who Jesus was. So Much so that they crucified their messiah. It is the Total lack of hearing divine revelation from the Spirit, and a reliance on the Letter of the law (Bible).
Just like Israel, who with the second temple had cast out much of the idolatry therein, so to the fundamentalist movement did this as well, and many continued onto holiness and vibrant Spirit filled faith, Or how the protestant reformation brought liberty from the oppressive RCC only to adopt those manipulations again, so too fundamentalism which was vibrant Spirit filled movement placed those same oppressive rules and doctrines in the people only now they are ingrained in them. Put another way, this is the false religious tower of Satan.

Complacency: Scripture: Revelation 3:15-18

The final nail in the coffin is complacency. This is the self deception that the church member who has fallen victim to the manipulation of the false apostles finally settles into, and where much of those who call themselves Christian are living in today. The deception is that they are "good with God", and need of nothing. They have stagnated in their growth, to the point that they see no need for growth Spiritually. They have reached the point of total seduction by the mystery of Iniquity, Just like the leaders of the church of Thyatira were seduced by Jezebel. Examples of this are the modern evangelical churches of today that have become "seeker sensitive" Preaching a Gospel devoid of conviction and repentance.

The mystery of iniquity takes hold in the leadership of the church, and from there it infects into the people in the church it's lies. This rider on the white Horse was unleashed When the church was born on Pentecost and began its attempts to conquer with a bow with no arrows, and crown, and went forth to conquer. He continues to this day restrained by the Holy Ghost from accomplishing his mission of turning the virgin church into His harlot, yet many have fallen victim to his persecution and seduction along the way. In everyone of these churches there are those who overcome, and those who fail to do so. Paul writes: "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19) In the end the man of sin will rise up and deceive a good majority of the people who call themselves Christians, and stand in the Holy place and declare himself as the anointed one. There have been many that have declared themselves as anointed who are not from Popes to Protestant church leaders, Just as John said there are many antichrists even in his time. But this last one will be believed by the majority of "Christians" (Quotation marks intended) and fall away to following the man of sin. This is why the battle Satan is fighting is for your mind. He does not just want to declare himself God, He wants you to worship his man who does so And Satan himself who empowers the man held as God.

God Bless.

Very Good Brother,
This is why in the letter to each of the 7 churches the LORD says "to him who overcomes".
 
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Davy

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. As some of you here are aware, I see the letters to the seven churches of revelation as being both to current churches existing in John's time, as well as being prophetic of church ages. Within them is a wealth of information of church history throughout the two thousand year the church has existed. But there is also found therein a history of the mystery of iniquity at work in those churches. Much like the church has grown and changed over its history, so too has the adversary altered his ways to infiltrate and attack the church. This post will focus on that.
....
Sorry, but the doctrine of so-called 'Church Ages' is a THEORY BY MEN. That idea is not written there in Revelation at all. So to say it is written there, is to ADD to God's Word changing it.

At the end of Revelation 1 Jesus showed John that the 7 candlesticks John saw in the heavenly represent the seven Churches. But some are hard of hearing, I mean hard of 'reading comprehension' in the actual written Word of God, and instead would rather listen to men's dreamed up doctrines, like the false Church Ages theory that those like John Darby in 1830s Britain started along with a false pre-trib rapture theory.

Because... the 7 candlesticks are shown by Christ in Heaven to represent the seven Churches, and Lord Jesus even warned the Church of Ephesus about removing their 'candlestick' if they didn't repent, that means ALL 7 CANDLESTICKS ARE FIXED IN HEAVEN, THEN, AND ALSO STILL TODAY.

The little 'Church Ages' doctrine from men is actually a doctrine of the devil, and I'll tell you why if you'll keep reading.

The Problem with Man's Theory:
Man's theory of their 'Church Ages' doctrine is designed to make you think that each of Christ's 7 Messages are for a 'certain era' of Church history. That wrongly SUGGESTS that once that Church age history is past, then it no longer applies to the Church in general. WRONG! ALL of Christ's 7 Messages apply to ALL Churches, through history since His death and resurrection, even to the very END of this world. That is why we read Jesus' warnings and blessings in those 7 Messages involving HIS FUTURE COMING, AND EITHER REWARD, OR PUNISHMENT. (See His Message to Thyatira).

Why Satan is Against Christ's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches, and Uses the False 'Church Ages' idea instead:
Jesus rebuked 5 of the seven Churches. Only TWO Churches He has no problem with (Smyrna and Philadelphia). And He mentioned a specific doctrine to those 2 that none of the other 5 Churches had. Those two Churches represent His very elect. So that means the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia are the TRUE CHRISTIAN MODEL CHURCHES from the time of His resurrection all the way to the time of His future return. The other 5 Churches Jesus had rebuke for represent the problem Churches that need to repent.

All 7 Church Messages thusly are to be used as a MEASURE for whichever Church we each may attend. To treat any of those 7 Messages like a past history is to THROW AWAY CHRIST'S WARNINGS TO HIS CHURCH. That is why man's 'Church Ages' theory is a doctrine of the devil.
 

David in NJ

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Sorry, but the doctrine of so-called 'Church Ages' is a THEORY BY MEN. That idea is not written there in Revelation at all. So to say it is written there, is to ADD to God's Word changing it.

At the end of Revelation 1 Jesus showed John that the 7 candlesticks John saw in the heavenly represent the seven Churches. But some are hard of hearing, I mean hard of 'reading comprehension' in the actual written Word of God, and instead would rather listen to men's dreamed up doctrines, like the false Church Ages theory that those like John Darby in 1830s Britain started along with a false pre-trib rapture theory.

Because... the 7 candlesticks are shown by Christ in Heaven to represent the seven Churches, and Lord Jesus even warned the Church of Ephesus about removing their 'candlestick' if they didn't repent, that means ALL 7 CANDLESTICKS ARE FIXED IN HEAVEN, THEN, AND ALSO STILL TODAY.

The little 'Church Ages' doctrine from men is actually a doctrine of the devil, and I'll tell you why if you'll keep reading.

The Problem with Man's Theory:
Man's theory of their 'Church Ages' doctrine is designed to make you think that each of Christ's 7 Messages are for a 'certain era' of Church history. That wrongly SUGGESTS that once that Church age history is past, then it no longer applies to the Church in general. WRONG! ALL of Christ's 7 Messages apply to ALL Churches, through history since His death and resurrection, even to the very END of this world. That is why we read Jesus' warnings and blessings in those 7 Messages involving HIS FUTURE COMING, AND EITHER REWARD, OR PUNISHMENT. (See His Message to Thyatira).

Why Satan is Against Christ's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches, and Uses the False 'Church Ages' idea instead:
Jesus rebuked 5 of the seven Churches. Only TWO Churches He has no problem with (Smyrna and Philadelphia). And He mentioned a specific doctrine to those 2 that none of the other 5 Churches had. Those two Churches represent His very elect. So that means the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia are the TRUE CHRISTIAN MODEL CHURCHES from the time of His resurrection all the way to the time of His future return. The other 5 Churches Jesus had rebuke for represent the problem Churches that need to repent.

All 7 Church Messages thusly are to be used as a MEASURE for whichever Church we each may attend. To treat any of those 7 Messages like a past history is to THROW AWAY CHRIST'S WARNINGS TO HIS CHURCH. That is why man's 'Church Ages' theory is a doctrine of the devil.

FULLY AGREE with you that the 7 churches represent a Complete Message to ALL Christians throughout History.
For us who know HIM who called us out of darkness and into HIS LIGHT/LOVE/KINGDOM = The 7 churches cover the entire period of time/history from when Revelation was given and continues until His Second Coming.

Peace and have a Great Day in Christ
 
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David H.

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The Problem with Man's Theory:
Man's theory of their 'Church Ages' doctrine is designed to make you think that each of Christ's 7 Messages are for a 'certain era' of Church history. That wrongly SUGGESTS that once that Church age history is past, then it no longer applies to the Church in general. WRONG! ALL of Christ's 7 Messages apply to ALL Churches, through history since His death and resurrection, even to the very END of this world. That is why we read Jesus' warnings and blessings in those 7 Messages involving HIS FUTURE COMING, AND EITHER REWARD, OR PUNISHMENT. (See His Message to Thyatira).

Why Satan is Against Christ's 7 Messages to the 7 Churches, and Uses the False 'Church Ages' idea instead:
Jesus rebuked 5 of the seven Churches. Only TWO Churches He has no problem with (Smyrna and Philadelphia). And He mentioned a specific doctrine to those 2 that none of the other 5 Churches had. Those two Churches represent His very elect. So that means the Churches of Smyrna and Philadelphia are the TRUE CHRISTIAN MODEL CHURCHES from the time of His resurrection all the way to the time of His future return. The other 5 Churches Jesus had rebuke for represent the problem Churches that need to repent.

All 7 Church Messages thusly are to be used as a MEASURE for whichever Church we each may attend. To treat any of those 7 Messages like a past history is to THROW AWAY CHRIST'S WARNINGS TO HIS CHURCH. That is why man's 'Church Ages' theory is a doctrine of the devil.
Prophecy has multiple meanings, the simple mind places a singular meaning on them. I Believe the the 7 churches were 7 physical churches in the first century that existed.... I Believe they are a picture of the church as a whole.... and I believe they represent church ages of the last 2000 years. I Have no conflict with any of those views, and simultaneously hold all three views therein.

The Point of this post is to show how the mystery of iniquity has worked throughout those church ages, in order to show how it deceives within the church itself today.... We have Jezebels and Nicolaitans in the churches we are part of today, by showing how this happens over the church ages, perhaps some church leaders out there today can see how they creep in unawares and thwart their deception in their own local body here and now.

 

Davy

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Prophecy has multiple meanings, the simple mind places a singular meaning on them.
Of course that idea is baloney, and not Biblical. That kind of thinking is more like the Bible Codes junk.

Even with 'dual' type Bible prophecies, there can be multiple parameters prophesied that are only partially fulfilled at one time, and the other parameters only completed at a later time, thus fulfilling the whole prophecy. The seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel 9 is one such example, as each part was fulfilled independently with the later ones still to come.

This also can be seen in Daniel 11 about the "vile person" parameters serving a dual purpose, because Antiochus IV took Jerusalem in 170 B.C., ended the Jew's sacrifices, and instead sacrificed swine in the 2nd temple, erected a pagan altar to Zeus and setup a pagan idol demanding all to worship it. That is similar to what the "abomination of desolation" Jesus warned 200 years later for Jerusalem at the end of this world. Antiochus simply did not fulfill all the Daniel prophecy.

Revelation uses the Babylon symbol for Jerusalem's future fall into pagan idol worship, again, at the end of this world.

But NOWHERE does God's Word point to an exact duplicate of Bible prophecy. If it did, then there would be no way to make distinctions for when a prophecy is fulfilled.
 

Nancy

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: ...
"The Mystery of iniquity must first infiltrate anything God builds, and the place the mystery of iniquity seeks to infiltrate more than anything is church leadership. Once there, the adversary can plant his seeds of heresy, and His false doctrines and lies."

Discernment should be the order of the day anymore. Over the last 7 or so years, I have tried to be a part of a local congregation three times. Although I do believe the pastor and leadership there were sincere in their beliefs but, they were very cold, distant, critical, presumptuous and Reformed Baptist which I do NOT subscribe to.
Second church. All lovey dovey ... UNTIL the pastor there realized I was not agreeing with her, just through my silence...they teach very liberal, Jesus light, barely a mention of sin, false doctrine and skew the scriptures to say that certain things are okay even though the Word say's much differently. Had I have stayed there, I would be back to where I do not want to be and that is, the old life of sin and debauchery...yeah, they were fine with that.
The third and LAST church has not answered any of my calls to sit down with the pastor, I had gone there three Sundays and then started to listen online. Come to find, they are closely tied to the second church and my guess is that I have been blackballed as a divisor. And, I could care less as, they are pointing people straight to hell. The pulpits are lousy with false teachers as well as false followers of these men.

"The Mystery of iniquity must first infiltrate anything God builds, and the place the mystery of iniquity seeks to infiltrate more than anything is church leadership."

"For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock."
Acts 20:29 (I do know that anti-Pauline folks like to use this to say it is Paul, I don't believe that at all)

And that they did, in droves! It is becoming more and more easy to discern false from righteous Christians and their leaders" Always blamed myself for not "fitting in", but never again. As the song goes: "When I don't belong, oh You say I am Yours" and this, I stick to. Being a virtual recluse anymore has the mind all over the place but, He is in control...period!

Yes, MANY antichrists now..."wise as serpents and gentle as doves"!!
Good post
 
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David H.

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Although I do believe the pastor and leadership there were sincere in their beliefs but, they were very cold, distant, critical, presumptuous and Reformed Baptist which I do NOT subscribe to.
That is my experience with anything reformed as well... cold and distant are the perfect words for this. I Live in the Hotbed of Calvinism, so i have experienced this first hand, and it is I believe a doctrinal error caused by the teaching that all the faithful are the elect of God, instead of understanding that election does not pertain to salvation but to service to God. I Believe the NT writings are heavy with Election doctrine because most of the epistles were written to the leadership primarily at the outset by the Apostles to the shepherds they had placed in many cases in those leadership roles.

Being a shepherd is an inglorious position.... in the time of Christ it was a Mike Rowe "Dirty Job", a servant position.... a slave of righteousness as Paul puts it. What the Mystery of Iniquity does is elevate that position as a podium, give glory to it, and lifts it up, puffing the ego of that leader, and making them think they are above everyone else in the church, then the seduction of secret knowledge (Sophia) is given them and heresy spreads, Jezebel doctrines, and the church becomes a lukewarm country club with no evangelism or helping the poor, and its light begins to be covered by a pot, as those who are on fire in them are quickly extinguished, which seems to be your experience.

Well written comment there, and do not let them extinguish the flame in you.
 
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David H.

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Of course that idea is baloney, and not Biblical. That kind of thinking is more like the Bible Co of rzdes junk.
The Abomination of desolation is a perfect example, there was a fulfilment under antiochus, a fulfilment in 70 ad, and there will be a fulfilment by the man of sin/ antichrist. One prophecy, three fulfilments. To ignore any one is to miss the boat so to speak.

Simple minds think they have it all figured out, just like the Pharisees, which caused them to reject Jesus. The wise know, with Paul, that we all know in part, and are able to receive and fellowship with other believers who also know in part, knowing that in fellowship the whole truth can come to be glimpsed by mortal minds. 1 Corinthians 3:18
 

marks

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Prophecy has multiple meanings, the simple mind places a singular meaning on them. I Believe the the 7 churches were 7 physical churches in the first century that existed.... I Believe they are a picture of the church as a whole.... and I believe they represent church ages of the last 2000 years. I Have no conflict with any of those views, and simultaneously hold all three views therein.
I think these are true myself. I also think that they show a progression of change within a given church, or the churches within a region. I also think they will have particular relevance to 7 churches during the 70th week. And they show attitudes and thoughts and things inside each of us.

Jesus invites us, commands us, that we personally hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Much love!
 
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Behold

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. The deception is that they are "good with God", and need of nothing.


David....If the person is born again, then they are indeed "good with God" as God lives in them, Christ has paid for all their sin, and they have Eternal Life.

Welcome to : "THE GIFT OF SALVATION">..
Its a GIFT, David.
Its FREE to all who believe.... and the proof they have it, is that they are ETERNALLY born again...


People like you, David, who teach a false gospel of self effort (works) to go to heaven, or to stay saved...., are this... Galatians 1:8.
Ive been telling you this for years, as you keep posting this same Thread everywhere you can find to show it again.

You have no real understanding of the Blood Atonement, or the Grace of God.
But you will ENDLESSLY talk about "Complacency", and point that self righteous finger at everyone here..
They don't realize you just yet...but I have seen you before and i know all your little Legalism tricks.


So, how are you doing : Mr i can only post about """" Complacency """"" ???
 

amigo de christo

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How does lawlessness hide itself amongst the elect? By transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. (2 Corinthians 11:15).

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. ( I John 3:26-27)
Just as did judas so too does that spirit . JESUS was not betrayed by an outsider was he .
And the apostels knew not who it was . Judas was amongst them as though he was one of them , but he was not of them was he .
And no marvel either that satans own minisitirs can come in and take over churches and be as though they are of us , when in truth
THEY are NOT . I have seen this all over the places . and most folks just see them as nice kind caring and loving leaders . WHEN IN TRUTH
they do the work of the dragon himself . THAT OL MYSTERY of inquity is hitting the full now .
 

amigo de christo

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David....If the person is born again, then they are indeed "good with God" as God lives in them, Christ has paid for all their sin, and they have Eternal Life.

People like you, David, who teach a false gospel of self effort to go to heaven, or to stay saved...., are this... Galatians 1:8.
Ive been telling you this for years, as you keep posting this same Thread everywhere you can find to show it again.

You have no real understanding of the Blood Atonement, or the Grace of God.
But you will ENDLESSLY talk about "Complacency", and point that self righteous finger at everyone here..
They just don't realize you just yet...but I have seen you before and i know all your little Legalism tricks.


So, how are you doing : Mr i can only post about """" Complacency """""
problem is , most are not born again . IF they were why would they follow another jesus , another gospel and lies and men who teach lies .
Over seventy percent of christains so called now believe its not necessary at all to BELIEVE IN JESUS ALONE for salvation .
THEY believe a lie that GOD is fine with all and with all religions , with homosexuality and scores of other things too .
ITS ALL a lie . GOD wont be mocked and HE WONT have CHRIST TROD UNDER FOOT for a lie , for a false love from hell either .
PREACH THE LIFE SAVING GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST while there be time to do so . MANY are under a delusion and its a strong one too .
The devil knew how to create a god in his own image to get all religoins and the world to meet as one . HE used the word love
and unity , tolerance and etc , but preached a whopper of a lie , what a false love , what a false unity and all of it is under the dragon .
TALK about a delusion . WHEN ye can convince the christain mainstream that it no longer has to believe in CHRIST to be saved
and that all religions serve GOD and so long as we do good things we know GOD , THAT JUST OMITTED THE TOTAL NECESSITY
OF CHRIST JESUS FOR SALVATION . OH but many now buy it . I REFUSE THE PIECE OF TRASH LIE .
AS for me and my house , as for me and the lambs , WE GONNA STAND ON THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL OF CHRIST as the ONLY means
whereby one may be saved . PEROID .
 
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David H.

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David....If the person is born again, then they are indeed "good with God" as God lives in them, Christ has paid for all their sin, and they have Eternal Life.

Welcome to : "THE GIFT OF SALVATION">..
Its a GIFT, David.
Its FREE to all who believe.... and the proof they have it, is that they are ETERNALLY born again...


People like you, David, who teach a false gospel of self effort (works) to go to heaven, or to stay saved...., are this... Galatians 1:8.
Ive been telling you this for years, as you keep posting this same Thread everywhere you can find to show it again.

You have no real understanding of the Blood Atonement, or the Grace of God.
But you will ENDLESSLY talk about "Complacency", and point that self righteous finger at everyone here..
They don't realize you just yet...but I have seen you before and i know all your little Legalism tricks.


So, how are you doing : Mr i can only post about """" Complacency """"" ???
I am saved by the grace of God, Kept saved by the grace of God, sanctified and cleansed and am being made Holy by the grace of God, For we are HIS workmanship (Ephesians 2:10) I Understand your concern about a works Gospel but I am not preaching that here nor elsewhere.... what you are preaching is a lawless Gospel, One that denies the riches of God's grace and Work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of the believer after we are saved, which leads to holiness.

Are you being made Holy by the grace of God? Are you living the sanctified life? Or are you making excuses for your repetitive sins.... I see one showing up in all your posts here, and at worthy before that has yet to change in you. That tells me you are being complacent about sin in your life, and that you need nothing. Good luck with that at the Judgment seat of Christ. (Romans 14:10, 2 Corinthians 5:10)
 

Nancy

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That is my experience with anything reformed as well... cold and distant are the perfect words for this. I Live in the Hotbed of Calvinism, so i have experienced this first hand, and it is I believe a doctrinal error caused by the teaching that all the faithful are the elect of God, instead of understanding that election does not pertain to salvation but to service to God. I Believe the NT writings are heavy with Election doctrine because most of the epistles were written to the leadership primarily at the outset by the Apostles to the shepherds they had placed in many cases in those leadership roles.

Being a shepherd is an inglorious position.... in the time of Christ it was a Mike Rowe "Dirty Job", a servant position.... a slave of righteousness as Paul puts it. What the Mystery of Iniquity does is elevate that position as a podium, give glory to it, and lifts it up, puffing the ego of that leader, and making them think they are above everyone else in the church, then the seduction of secret knowledge (Sophia) is given them and heresy spreads, Jezebel doctrines, and the church becomes a lukewarm country club with no evangelism or helping the poor, and its light begins to be covered by a pot, as those who are on fire in them are quickly extinguished, which seems to be your experience.

Well written comment there, and do not let them extinguish the flame in you.
Oh my friend, they will never ever extinguish the flame in me, would rather not even attend a local congregation anymore as they are either, Catholic, Episcopalian, Calvinist or way liberal. None of them want me there and I am fine with that anymore, at first it just hurt and caused anger to rise up inside me. God does not want that so, I have decided to remove myself from them all. Looking into a home church and or a home bibles study...not easy! So, this forum is my church unless God does in no uncertain terms, place me in some other local body not near me.
Thank you for the reply.
 
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