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David H.

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. As some of you here are aware, I see the letters to the seven churches of revelation as being both to current churches existing in John's time, as well as being prophetic of church ages. Within them is a wealth of information of church history throughout the two thousand year the church has existed. But there is also found therein a history of the mystery of iniquity at work in those churches. Much like the church has grown and changed over its history, so too has the adversary altered his ways to infiltrate and attack the church. This post will focus on that.

If this post convicts you, Go to the cross on your Knees in repentance and seek God. It has been a hard post for me to write because there are many in all the churches mentioned Below who are brothers and sisters in Christ and is not an attack on your church or denomination, or sect. Many of the movements were led by anointed men of God only to have their authority and movement usurped by Satan.

False Apostles: Scriptures: 2 Corinthians 11:12-13, Revelation 2:2

In Paul's defense of his apostleship found in 1 Cor. 11, Paul defends his apostleship by the "stripes" which he suffered, and counters this with the false apostles seeking apostleship as a glorious calling and to raise themselves up in the world. (If you have not read this chapter, do so, as it is a literary masterpiece)

The Mystery of iniquity must first infiltrate anything God builds, and the place the mystery of iniquity seeks to infiltrate more than anything is church leadership. Once there, the adversary can plant his seeds of heresy, and His false doctrines and lies. We see this fight beginning in the Epistles of the New Testament and continuing on in the first letter to the church of Ephesus. Just about every Epistle in the new testament deals with these false apostles, teachers, and prophets, and their doctrines and heresies. At 90 ad when John received Revelation Gnosticism was the prevailing heresy that was influencing the church.

Nicolaitans: Scriptures: Revelation 2:6, Revelation 2:14-15

Once those false Apostles and teachers have a foothold in the church they will begin to act to keep their power and status. If You notice the two verses above we see deeds evolve into doctrines. Now there is a lot of views on what the heresy of the Nicolaitans was in the first century, But Prophetically the name means to "rule over the laity". This to me is the Prophetic implication of Nicolaitanism. At first a false apostle will do deeds to exalt themselves, works that glorify themselves, afterward, these deeds become doctrines that must be obeyed, where agreement with this or that doctrine is vital to membership in the Body, and disagreement is worthy of excommunication, thus rule by fear is established in the body by a leader that rules over them. These are the "doctrines of Balaam" That cause the faithful to stumble, and thus be unable to confront these leaders in the churches, because they hold damning information on these people. A classic case of this is the confessionals of the RCC as well as some of the counseling aspects used in the evangelical churches of today which mix psychology and Christianity to create a Doctor/ patient relationship. the latter being more subtle.

Synagogue of Satan: Scriptures: Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9

The second avenue for these false apostles to take when their power is fully entrenched, is to begin outright persecution of those who disagree with them and desire the truth. We see this in the church of Smyrna. When this church gets so big and powerful with false apostle and nicolaitans at the helm, controlling earthly powers such as nations. This is when the church comes allied with "Satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13) and instead of ruling with mere church authority they have military might behind their decrees. Examples of this include the inquisition, The church of England's persecution of sects such as the Puritan's, And Calvin's Purges in Geneva and other parts of Europe.

Jezebel Doctrines: Scripture: Revelation 2:20-24, 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Once empowered, whether with Nicolaitan rule or that backed by Satan's seat, the mystery of Iniquity now seeks to take the place of God, to declare them self God. That comes by declaring themselves as having divine revelation from God, and being the voice of God over the people. In the case of Jezebel, she turned the grace of God into lasciviousness, saying it was Ok to fornicate, to eat foods sacrificed to idols, and by these idolatries to exert emotional and psychological control over the people. Manipulation of the very desires of the people. (Although this could be a post on it's own, I will limit this for now). Examples of this include the catholic payments for indulgences, and much of what we see in the Prosperity preachers on TV Today, and even in some of the evangelical emergent churches teachings.

Apathy: Scripture: Revelation 3:1-3

In these Latter three church ages, The mystery of Iniquity is so ingrained that it begins to transform the members of those churches, the first thing to happen is that apathy sets in. Discernment of wickedness is so far gone that even the loudest of voices trying to expose that wickedness are shrugged off. The church that was vibrant and alive, becomes dead. This happened to the protestant reformation, within years what was a liberating and vibrant movement adopted the many of the same Nicolaitan doctrines and Jezebel manipulations of the RCC that they protested against, and tried to reform, as voices were raised in opposition to them they were ignored as the Protestants began to build their earthly kingdoms, Thus the daughter of the harlot began to be just like her mother.

Synagogue of Satan part 2, Textualism : Scripture: Revelation 3:9-11, Romans 7:6

Just like the Nicolaitan's in leadership, once given power, they can begin to beat the one's who would stand up against them, so to in the members of the church this drive sets in place. This is when the deeds of apathy, become the doctrine of apathy. The manipulation becomes the doctrine, and any who go against the doctrine of the scribes are cast out or worse. This was the the death of the fundamentalist movement, around the turn of the 19th century, as it became so entrenched in hyper dispensationalism that when voices called out for holiness they disposed of them for their scribe inspired religion. Another example of this is what Judaism had become at the time of Christ, to the point that they had no ears to hear the truth of who Jesus was. So Much so that they crucified their messiah. It is the Total lack of hearing divine revelation from the Spirit, and a reliance on the Letter of the law (Bible).
Just like Israel, who with the second temple had cast out much of the idolatry therein, so to the fundamentalist movement did this as well, and many continued onto holiness and vibrant Spirit filled faith, Or how the protestant reformation brought liberty from the oppressive RCC only to adopt those manipulations again, so too fundamentalism which was vibrant Spirit filled movement placed those same oppressive rules and doctrines in the people only now they are ingrained in them. Put another way, this is the false religious tower of Satan.

Complacency: Scripture: Revelation 3:15-18

The final nail in the coffin is complacency. This is the self deception that the church member who has fallen victim to the manipulation of the false apostles finally settles into, and where much of those who call themselves Christian are living in today. The deception is that they are "good with God", and need of nothing. They have stagnated in their growth, to the point that they see no need for growth Spiritually. They have reached the point of total seduction by the mystery of Iniquity, Just like the leaders of the church of Thyatira were seduced by Jezebel. Examples of this are the modern evangelical churches of today that have become "seeker sensitive" Preaching a Gospel devoid of conviction and repentance.

The mystery of iniquity takes hold in the leadership of the church, and from there it infects into the people in the church it's lies. This rider on the white Horse was unleashed When the church was born on Pentecost and began its attempts to conquer with a bow with no arrows, and crown, and went forth to conquer. He continues to this day restrained by the Holy Ghost from accomplishing his mission of turning the virgin church into His harlot, yet many have fallen victim to his persecution and seduction along the way. In everyone of these churches there are those who overcome, and those who fail to do so. Paul writes: "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19) In the end the man of sin will rise up and deceive a good majority of the people who call themselves Christians, and stand in the Holy place and declare himself as the anointed one. There have been many that have declared themselves as anointed who are not from Popes to Protestant church leaders, Just as John said there are many antichrists even in his time. But this last one will be believed by the majority of "Christians" (Quotation marks intended) and fall away to following the man of sin. This is why the battle Satan is fighting is for your mind. He does not just want to declare himself God, He wants you to worship his man who does so And Satan himself who empowers the man held as God.

God Bless.
 
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Truth7t7

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. As some of you here are aware, I see the letters to the seven churches of revelation as being both to current churches existing in John's time, as well as being prophetic of church ages. Within them is a wealth of information of church history throughout the two thousand year the church has existed. But there is also found therein a history of the mystery of iniquity at work in those churches. Much like the church has grown and changed over its history, so too has the adversary altered his ways to infiltrate and attack the church. This post will focus on that.

If this post convicts you, Go to the cross on your Knees in repentance and seek God. It has been a hard post for me to write because there are many in all the churches mentioned Below who are brothers and sisters in Christ and is not an attack on your church or denomination, or sect. Many of the movements were led by anointed men of God only to have their authority and movement usurped by Satan.

False Apostles: Scriptures: 2 Corinthians 13: 12-13, Revelation 2:2

In Paul's defense of his apostleship found in 1 Cor. 13, Paul defends his apostleship by the "stripes" which he suffered, and counters this with the false apostles seeking apostleship as a glorious calling and to raise themselves up in the world. (If you have not read this chapter, do so, as it is a literary masterpiece)

The Mystery of iniquity must first infiltrate anything God builds, and the place the mystery of iniquity seeks to infiltrate more than anything is church leadership. Once there, the adversary can plant his seeds of heresy, and His false doctrines and lies. We see this fight beginning in the Epistles of the New Testament and continuing on in the first letter to the church of Ephesus. Just about every Epistle in the new testament deals with these false apostles, teachers, and prophets, and their doctrines and heresies. At 90 ad when John received Revelation Gnosticism was the prevailing heresy that was influencing the church.

Nicolaitans: Scriptures: Revelation 2:6, Revelation 2:14-15

Once those false Apostles and teachers have a foothold in the church they will begin to act to keep their power and status. If You notice the two verses above we see deeds evolve into doctrines. Now there is a lot of views on what the heresy of the Nicolaitans was in the first century, But Prophetically the name means to "rule over the laity". This to me is the Prophetic implication of Nicolaitanism. At first a false apostle will do deeds to exalt themselves, works that glorify themselves, afterward, these deeds become doctrines that must be obeyed, where agreement with this or that doctrine is vital to membership in the Body, and disagreement is worthy of excommunication, thus rule by fear is established in the body by a leader that rules over them. These are the "doctrines of Balaam" That cause the faithful to stumble, and thus be unable to confront these leaders in the churches, because they hold damning information on these people. A classic case of this is the confessionals of the RCC as well as some of the counseling aspects used in the evangelical churches of today which mix psychology and Christianity to create a Doctor/ patient relationship. the latter being more subtle.

Synagogue of Satan: Scriptures: Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9

The second avenue for these false apostles to take when their power is fully entrenched, is to begin outright persecution of those who disagree with them and desire the truth. We see this in the church of Smyrna. When this church gets so big and powerful with false apostle and nicolaitans at the helm, controlling earthly powers such as nations. This is when the church comes allied with "Satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13) and instead of ruling with mere church authority they have military might behind their decrees. Examples of this include the inquisition, The church of England's persecution of sects such as the Puritan's, And Calvin's Purges in Geneva and other parts of Europe.

Jezebel Doctrines: Scripture: Revelation 2:20-24, 2 Thessalonians 2:4

Once empowered, whether with Nicolaitan rule or that backed by Satan's seat, the mystery of Iniquity now seeks to take the place of God, to declare them self God. That comes by declaring themselves as having divine revelation from God, and being the voice of God over the people. In the case of Jezebel, she turned the grace of God into lasciviousness, saying it was Ok to fornicate, to eat foods sacrificed to idols, and by these idolatries to exert emotional and psychological control over the people. Manipulation of the very desires of the people. (Although this could be a post on it's own, I will limit this for now). Examples of this include the catholic payments for indulgences, and much of what we see in the Prosperity preachers on TV Today, and even in some of the evangelical emergent churches teachings.

Apathy: Scripture: Revelation 3:1-3

In these Latter three church ages, The mystery of Iniquity is so ingrained that it begins to transform the members of those churches, the first thing to happen is that apathy sets in. Discernment of wickedness is so far gone that even the loudest of voices trying to expose that wickedness are shrugged off. The church that was vibrant and alive, becomes dead. This happened to the protestant reformation, within years what was a liberating and vibrant movement adopted the many of the same Nicolaitan doctrines and Jezebel manipulations of the RCC that they protested against, and tried to reform, as voices were raised in opposition to them they were ignored as the Protestants began to build their earthly kingdoms, Thus the daughter of the harlot began to be just like her mother.

Synagogue of Satan part 2, Textualism : Scripture: Revelation 3:9-11, Romans 7:6

Just like the Nicolaitan's in leadership, once given power, they can begin to beat the one's who would stand up against them, so to in the members of the church this drive sets in place. This is when the deeds of apathy, become the doctrine of apathy. The manipulation becomes the doctrine, and any who go against the doctrine of the scribes are cast out or worse. This was the the death of the fundamentalist movement, around the turn of the 19th century, as it became so entrenched in hyper dispensationalism that when voices called out for holiness they disposed of them for their scribe inspired religion. Another example of this is what Judaism had become at the time of Christ, to the point that they had no ears to hear the truth of who Jesus was. So Much so that they crucified their messiah. It is the Total lack of hearing divine revelation from the Spirit, and a reliance on the Letter of the law (Bible).
Just like Israel, who with the second temple had cast out much of the idolatry therein, so to the fundamentalist movement did this as well, and many continued onto holiness and vibrant Spirit filled faith, Or how the protestant reformation brought liberty from the oppressive RCC only to adopt those manipulations again, so too fundamentalism which was vibrant Spirit filled movement placed those same oppressive rules and doctrines in the people only now they are ingrained in them. Put another way, this is the false religious tower of Satan.

Complacency: Scripture: Revelation 3:15-18

The final nail in the coffin is complacency. This is the self deception that the church member who has fallen victim to the manipulation of the false apostles finally settles into, and where much of those who call themselves Christian are living in today. The deception is that they are "good with God", and need of nothing. They have stagnated in their growth, to the point that they see no need for growth Spiritually. They have reached the point of total seduction by the mystery of Iniquity, Just like the leaders of the church of Thyatira were seduced by Jezebel. Examples of this are the modern evangelical churches of today that have become "seeker sensitive" Preaching a Gospel devoid of conviction and repentance.

The mystery of iniquity takes hold in the leadership of the church, and from there it infects into the people in the church it's lies. This rider on the white Horse was unleashed When the church was born on Pentecost and began its attempts to conquer with a bow with no arrows, and crown, and went forth to conquer. He continues to this day restrained by the Holy Ghost from accomplishing his mission of turning the virgin church into His harlot, yet many have fallen victim to his persecution and seduction along the way. In everyone of these churches there are those who overcome, and those who fail to do so. Paul writes: "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19) In the end the man of sin will rise up and deceive a good majority of the people who call themselves Christians, and stand in the Holy place and declare himself as the anointed one. There have been many that have declared themselves as anointed who are not from Popes to Protestant church leaders, Just as John said there are many antichrists even in his time. But this last one will be believed by the majority of "Christians" (Quotation marks intended) and fall away to following the man of sin. This is why the battle Satan is fighting is for your mind.

God Bless.
Itssssssssssssssssssss wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to oooooooooooooooooo Longgggggggggggggggggggggg
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii gaveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee upppppppppppppppppppppppppp Daveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

In Love
 
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David H.

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Itssssssssssssssssssss wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to oooooooooooooooooo Longgggggggggggggggggggggg
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii gaveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee upppppppppppppppppppppppppp Daveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

In Love

Only my mom can call me Davey.....

If you can grasp what is written here, and i Know I am not the best writer You will be better off. Hence the forward warning of a long Post. I did try to keep it as brief as possible.... I could literally write pages on each section of the details and nuances of each section above, But this one is about the max most people's attention span will allow them to read.

"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19)

God bless
 

Stumpmaster

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Only my mom can call me Davey.....

If you can grasp what is written here, and i Know I am not the best writer You will be better off. Hence the forward warning of a long Post. I did try to keep it as brief as possible.... I could literally write pages on each section of the details and nuances of each section above, But this one is about the max most people's attention span will allow them to read.

"For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you." (1 Corinthians 11:19)

God bless
The Greek word for iniquity is anomia.

The Greek word for that Wicked( lawless one ) is anomos.

Both anomia and the anomos strive to remain camouflaged as much as possible so as to hide their falsehoods.

 

David H.

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The Greek word for iniquity is anomia.

The Greek word for that Wicked( lawless one ) is anomos.

Both anomia and the anomos strive to remain camouflaged as much as possible so as to hide their falsehoods.

How does lawlessness hide itself amongst the elect? By transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. (2 Corinthians 11:15).

These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. ( I John 3:26-27)
 

Zao is life

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. God Bless.

Well I bore with you, but you weren't being a bore.

Thus the daughter of the harlot began to be just like her mother.
Yes, I fully agree. Far too many teachers and far, far too many pulpits. Very true. All the "traditional" congregations of the Lord's flock are pyramids. The pulpit sits at the top of each pyramid and no one ever dares challenge whatever it speaks, whether truth, or error. Thinking is discouraged. You're the hardware, the pulpit is the software. No such thing in a pyramid as a group of saints gathering in fellowship as equals, saying how they understand what is written, and why they understand it that way (you have to go to Christian forums for that).

It is the Total lack of hearing divine revelation from the Spirit, and a reliance on the Letter of the law (Bible).
Not sure what you mean here by placing (Bible) in brackets. I believe the Bible is the text book. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher. I believe the text book is absolutely indispensable (how else would we know that the pulpit at the top of the pyramid is speaking lies when it's lying?)

Otherwise I fully agree with everything you say except your belief that the mystery of iniquity going forth conquering and to conquer is symbolized by the white horse in the first seal (but you already know that I don't agree with you on that). I could be wrong. In this case I don't "think" I'm wrong, but no one who "thinks" he's right is right merely because he "thinks" he's right. They say those who go bald in front think a lot. Those who go bald at the back know a lot, but those who go bald all the way think they know a lot. Well I'm bald all the way.

But no matter whether or not the mystery of iniquity and the spirit of lawlessness is symbolized by the first seal, the reality is as you say in your post - and it's leading to where you say it's leading to.

Good post
 

David H.

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Not sure what you mean here by placing (Bible) in brackets. I believe the Bible is the text book. The Holy Spirit is the Teacher. I believe the text book is absolutely indispensable (how else would we know that the pulpit at the top of the pyramid is speaking lies when it's lying?)

By This i am referring to scripture becoming the letter of the law and when that happens we stop worshipping in the Spirit and start doing so in the letter. Like the Pharisees in Jesus' day, their conforming to the Law was outward so that they could look down on others condemningly. Many of your fundamentalist churches have fallen victim to this. Study textualism if you want to understand this more.

No Revival without Reformation - A.W. Tozer - Sermon Index

As for the seals, I believe the first five were opened soon after Pentecost. I Believe that Revelation 5:2-5 Describes the time Christ was in the tomb. Each of these seals are restrained, until the time of the end and the rule of the Antichrist during the Great tribulation.
 

Zao is life

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By This i am referring to scripture becoming the letter of the law and when that happens we stop worshipping in the Spirit and start doing so in the letter. Like the Pharisees in Jesus' day, their conforming to the Law was outward so that they could look down on others condemningly. Many of your fundamentalist churches have fallen victim to this. Study textualism if you want to understand this more.
With you on that.

As for the seals, I believe the first five were opened soon after Pentecost. I Believe that Revelation 5:2-5 Describes the time Christ was in the tomb. Each of these seals are restrained, until the time of the end and the rule of the Antichrist during the Great tribulation.
@David in NJ
I just realized I misunderstood you. Yes, I agree, Revelation 5:2-5 describes the time Christ was in the tomb, and each of these seals is restrained until the time of the end and the rule of the Antichrist during the Great tribulation.

So this is what I said first, but @David in NJ I will edit it according to my correction above:

That was very interesting. Made me pause a minute, read Revelation 5 again, and think about it.

Yes, I agree with you: Think about what the seals are. True, Christ was the only one found worthy to loose the scroll's seals because He was slain. The pouring out of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost was the sign that Christ had returned to His Father, and was now pouring out the Holy Spirit as He had promised His disciples He would do.

It is John who received the Revelation circa AD 76, and chapters 7-22 of the Revelation is the contents of the scroll being read to us - the scroll that is only seen once the last of the 7 seals is opened, and the scroll being read to us is only understood in the light of the visions John saw when each seal was opened.

In other words, the contents of the scroll which is read to us must be understood in light of the visions of the seals, because the seals open our understanding to what is written in the scroll. The seals are about (a) opening the scroll; and (b) opening the understanding of the one who hears the words of the prophecy which is written on the scroll.

This was given to John by Jesus to give to Jesus' churches, and He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, circa AD 76. The contents of the scroll (chapters 7-19) are the prophecy concerning the final 3.5 years of the Age and the return of Christ, and it must and can only be understood in the light of the visions seen in each seal.
 
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David H.

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So this is what I said first, but @David in NJ I will edit it according to my correction above:

I am not @David in NJ.

Once you understand this about the seals, you will begin to see how the whole church age is the tribulation/labor pangs Jesus spoke of. Even John understood this when he said:
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 1:9
 
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Zao is life

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I am not @David in NJ.

Once you understand this about the seals, you will begin to see how the whole church age is the tribulation/labor pangs Jesus spoke of. Even John understood this when he said:
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 1:9
Only thing I disagree with you about that is that you said that the seals were opened at Pentecost, unless John saw the seals opened 46 years after they were opened.

@David H. I agree with you that the entire church Age is the tribulation. The entire church Age is the last days, also. But the last of the last days and the final and greatest tribulation of the church is the last 3.5 years of the Age.
 
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David H.

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Only thing I disagree with you about that is that you said that the seals were opened at Pentecost, unless John saw the seals opened 46 years after they were opened.

@David H. I agree with you that the entire church Age is the tribulation. The entire church Age is the last days, also. But the last of the last days and the final and greatest tribulation of the church is the last 3.5 years of the Age.

Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; (Revelation 1:19) Which means past present and future. Many scholars see "jump backs" in John's visions, For example the beginning of Revelation 12. The way he has shown me to organize Revelation is as a series of 7 visions all with a different start point.

Overall I agree with your view that the whole of the church age is the tribulation and culminates in the 3.5 year Great tribulation. Which is followed by the Day of the LORD, and His Wrath.
 
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michaelvpardo

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

God Bless.
Interesting analysis, but you lost me at your take on the RCC. There's a really boring book that I picked up a few decades ago at a BJ's discount book display titled "The Bad Popes", which gives excerpts from Vatican historical records and attempts to cover apostate behavior in the Vatican from around 400 AD up to the 14th century. It doesn't label the papacy as inherently evil, but only examines corrupt individuals who sought temporal power through the papacy after the office of the bishop of Rome was combined with the office of Rome's governor. I no longer own the book., but gave it away to another professing Christian, so I can't offer quotes, names, or dates. However, my point is that joining religious authority to temporal power made the office powerful enough for people to murder competitors and wage wars for the office. There was even a brief period of time when there were 2 popes, one in France and one in Italy, each with their own supporters in the church.

Then you have the protestant reformation, initiated by supporters of Martin Luther. Luther was excommunicated by the Roman Catholic Church and only kept his freedom and probably his life, by recieving support from Frederick III of Saxony and like minded supporters from the nobility of Europe, anxious to cast off the temporal authority of Rome.
Contemporary Christians following reformed doctrine tend to see the reformation as a restoration of the gospel and a delegitimization of papal authority, but the reformation was more of a political rebellion against the pope than a massive doctrinal shift. Again, temporal powers embraced the reformation primarily to limit the temporal power of the pope.
There was very little change in orthopraxy immediately resulting from the reformation and very little doctrinal differences except the very significant rejection of papal authority, the spurious doctrine that there is no salvation without the "Roman" Catholic Church and that the church in Rome somehow predates the church in Jerusalem as "the first church."
As far as an authority structure within the church, Jesus Himself taught "servant leadership" and obedience to established authority, both temporal and that established through the law of Moses. While scripture proclaims us equal in Christ, an authority structure of mature elders, pastors, and bishops is a necessity demanded by the carnal nature resident in believers and the practices of church discipline to maintain order and correct the behavior of sinning Christians, as per the instructions of the Apostle Paul.
Since the authority structure laid out by Paul is part of scripture, the assumption is that this structure is also inspired. If you believe that our God is concerned with order as opposed to chaos, then the former assumption seems legitimate.
As far as the 7 churches in the book of the Revelation, while they might represent "church ages" they actually are timeless in the sense that they apply to anyone who has an ear to hear. As long as we have ears to hear the word given to any of those churches, as long as we see anything of a rebuke to ourselves in those letters, they apply to us.

When I write personal letters, the content is personal and only applies to me and the recipient. When I write posts, and typically even when responding to someone else's post, I try to write to every eye that might see my writing, to every mind able to receive what I say. I don't engage in casual one on one conversation in forums unless I think it might be an encouragement to others, and when argument degenerates into angry rhetoric and accusations, I delete as much as possible. Such forms of malice aren't exactly edifying if they amount to no more than urination contests.
I want to be accurately understood without regard to what others think about me. I value pure communication without deception and I suppose that this was what drew me to Christ as a child. It's also why I appreciate your posts.

Now, to return to topic, the phrase "mystery of iniquity " throws me, because the concept of "iniquity" has always thrown me. I prefer the more literal translation "the mystery of lawlessness." The word "iniquity" is a characterization of sinful behavior, while the word "lawlessness", though commonly used to describe sinful behavior, actually just means to act without law. True innocence is lawlessness, and doesn't describe behavior at all, but lack of knowledge of the law, the lack of consciousness of sin.
This doesn't actually help me understand the verses, but puts a different spin on them. However, after just briefly looking over the passage, the second paragraph of the chapter refers to the first, in which case that which is restraining is the revelation of the son of perdition, the man of sin. That doesn't clarify who " he" is in verse 7, but since the word "mystery" is also translated as "secret", and since God is the revealer of secrets, that would make the "he" into "He" as in the NKJV.
It helps if you understand that although the beast and false prophet oppose God, they were still sent by God to test humanity, to divide those who love the truth from those that love lies and take their pleasure in unrighteousness. God keeps them hidden until their purpose is fulfilled and then He reveals them in judgment.
The passage doesn't tell us if this happens as a series of events over some period of time or all at once, but does point to the first resurrection and gathering together of the saints at Christ's return in vengeance.
 
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Zao is life

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Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter; (Revelation 1:19) Which means past present and future. Many scholars see "jump backs" in John's visions, For example the beginning of Revelation 12. The way he has shown me to organize Revelation is as a series of 7 visions all with a different start point.

Overall I agree with your view that the whole of the church age is the tribulation and culminates in the 3.5 year Great tribulation. Which is followed by the Day of the LORD, and His Wrath.
I believe the "things that will be hereafter" start in Revelation 4:1, and do not jump backwards after that.
 

David H.

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As far as an authority structure within the church, Jesus Himself taught "servant leadership" and obedience to established authority, both temporal and that established through the law of Moses. While scripture proclaims us equal in Christ, an authority structure of mature elders, pastors, and bishops is a necessity demanded by the carnal nature resident in believers and the practices of church discipline to maintain order and correct the behavior of sinning Christians, as per the instructions of the Apostle Paul.

Yes there is a Godly "authority" structure in the church of those God has anointed and called to leadership, My Post is dealing with those who are unanointed (antichrist definitionally). Elders of the faith should rise to leadership naturally in the church. What Nicolaitan doctrine teaches is that there is a priestly class that rules over the laity, which keeps the masses subservient and in a state of infancy spiritually. The way it should be is that as we mature in Christ all believers grow into elders, and become part of that leadership depending on the gifts bestowed upon them for the edification of the Body. Nicolaitanism keeps the Laity from maturation by elevating themselves above the Laity and discouraging the laity from thinking and growing themselves.

This is not how the Apostolic church was, John In 1 John 2 spoke of the unction we all have in the Holy Ghost, If you read that you will see how he elevates and upholds all believers as having the unction to see what he is speaking of. (1 John 2:20-21, 1 John 2:27)

Jesus Himself taught the apostles not to Lord over one another as the Pharisees do and the Gentiles do. (Matthew 23:1-12, Luke 22:24-27)

Like I said at the outset, there are Brothers and sisters in Christ in all these churches, and this post deals with the infiltration in the church of wickedness. I do not doubt Luther was anointed by God, Or Wesley, or any of the other "angels" of the churches, But each of the movements became corrupted by the Nicolaitans that infiltrated these movements. A Prime example of this is the pentecostal movement of the modern century, Born in revival, with no real "leaders", Only to be usurped by self aggrandizing men who introduced their doctrines of Balaam and and now we have word faith, NAR, and all the heresies of those leaders as the face of the Pentecostal movement.
 
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David H.

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I believe the "things that will be hereafter" start in Revelation 4:1, and do not jump backwards after that.

In a sense this is true, from when John is writing. Even the seals which were opened at Pentecost, were and are restrained and will not reach their full potential until the Great tribulation. The way I view revelation is as a picture being painted by the Great artist, which depicts the Day of the LORD. This picture is like a Bas relief found on the old Greek temples depicting wars. First the background is painted, then the foreground, then the details, then the characters, the conflicts, and the end results. It is a three dimensional way timeline, which when rightly organized adds details to each event that occurs.
 
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DPMartin

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For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

This will likely be a longer Post, so bear with me. As some of you here are aware, I see the letters to the seven churches of revelation as being both to current churches existing in John's time, as well as being prophetic of church ages. Within them is a wealth of information of church history throughout the two thousand year the church has existed. But there is also found therein a history of the mystery of iniquity at work in those churches. Much like the church has grown and changed over its history, so too has the adversary altered his ways to infiltrate and attack the church. This post will focus on that.

If this post convicts you, Go to the cross on your Knees in repentance and seek God. It has been a hard post for me to write because there are many in all the churches mentioned Below who are brothers and sisters in Christ and is not an attack on your church or denomination, or sect. Many of the movements were led by anointed men of God only to have their authority and movement usurped by Satan.

False Apostles: Scriptures: 2 Corinthians 11:12-13, Revelation 2:2

In Paul's defense of his apostleship found in 1 Cor. 11, Paul defends his apostleship by the "stripes" which he suffered, and counters this with the false apostles seeking apostleship as a glorious calling and to raise themselves up in the world. (If you have not read this chapter, do so, as it is a literary masterpiece)

The Mystery of iniquity must first infiltrate anything God builds, and the place the mystery of iniquity seeks to infiltrate more than anything is church leadership. Once there, the adversary can plant his seeds of heresy, and His false doctrines and lies. We see this fight beginning in the Epistles of the New Testament and continuing on in the first letter to the church of Ephesus. Just about every Epistle in the new testament deals with these false apostles, teachers, and prophets, and their doctrines and heresies. At 90 ad when John received Revelation Gnosticism was the prevailing heresy that was influencing the church.

Nicolaitans: Scriptures: Revelation 2:6, Revelation 2:14-15

Once those false Apostles and teachers have a foothold in the church they will begin to act to keep their power and status. If You notice the two verses above we see deeds evolve into doctrines. Now there is a lot of views on what the heresy of the Nicolaitans was in the first century, But Prophetically the name means to "rule over the laity". This to me is the Prophetic implication of Nicolaitanism. At first a false apostle will do deeds to exalt themselves, works that glorify themselves, afterward, these deeds become doctrines that must be obeyed, where agreement with this or that doctrine is vital to membership in the Body, and disagreement is worthy of excommunication, thus rule by fear is established in the body by a leader that rules over them. These are the "doctrines of Balaam" That cause the faithful to stumble, and thus be unable to confront these leaders in the churches, because they hold damning information on these people. A classic case of this is the confessionals of the RCC as well as some of the counseling aspects used in the evangelical churches of today which mix psychology and Christianity to create a Doctor/ patient relationship. the latter being more subtle.

Synagogue of Satan: Scriptures: Revelation 2:9, Revelation 3:9

The second avenue for these false apostles to take when their power is fully entrenched, is to begin outright persecution of those who disagree with them and desire the truth. We see this in the church of Smyrna. When this church gets so big and powerful with false apostle and nicolaitans at the helm, controlling earthly powers such as nations. This is when the church comes allied with "Satan's seat" (Revelation 2:13) and instead of ruling with mere church authority they have military might behind their decrees. Examples of this include the inquisition, The church of England's persecution of sects such as the Puritan's, And Calvin's Purges in Geneva and other parts of Europe.


God Bless.

this is a nice effort but, you don't have to knock yourself out to simply see what's going on. you don't need scripture to prove global decadence. and the enforcement that all should accept it, and not speak against it.

keep your eyes on Israel and your watch will be informative.