1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Zachary, Jan 6, 2020.

  1. Truther

    Truther Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,122
    Likes Received:
    684
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Compromise never wins anyone.
    Just ask Trump.
    Exposing the truth of God's word is one's only chance to change towards Him.
    It hurts...alot, to find out one is incorrect.
    But, if we somehow swallow that bitter word of God, it is sweet to the inner man.
     
  2. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Absolutely.
    Now your learnin' . . .
     
  3. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    But are you when you take the interpretation only from the CC and not from Him by the scripture?
     
  4. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States

    WOW - and I thought all of your other posts were hopelessly ignorant.
    Time for another Bible lesson . . .

    - Jesus is ALSO God (John 1:1)
    - GOD
    forgives sins (Mark 2:7, 1 John 1:19)
    - Jesus (God)
    gave His Apostles the power to forgive sins (John 20:21-23)

    He transferred so of His power - NOT that difficult to understand
    Let's continue . . .

    - Jesus is the Good Shepherd (John 10:14)
    - The Good Shepherd (Jesus) appointed another shepherd to tend His flock in His absence (John 21:15-19)

    Again - NOT that difficult to understand for a faithful, intelligent person, that is . . .
     
  5. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It's BOTH.

    BOTH are Authoritative.
    Jesus gave His CHURCH supreme Authority on earth - that WHATEVER it ordains on earth would ALSO be ordained in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 16:12-15, Luke 10:16, John 20:21-23).

    Do you think He was kidding??
     
  6. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    That power was not limited to His disciples, brother.

    Ephesians 4:31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: 32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

    That is why the Catholic Church cannot rule over anybody in that way or any other way in having believers walking with Him. Walking with the Catholic Church is not the same was walking with Him, and when the Catholic Church insists on that is when the Catholic Church is NOT walking with Him.
     
  7. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    As I stated before - you don't even know your Church history.

    Do you think that Christians for the first 1500 years of the Church "toted their Bibles" around??
    If you do - you're even more ignorant than I gave you credit for.
    The Early Church for the first 350 years didn't even HAVE a Bible until it was compiled and declared canonical by the Catholic Church in the 4th century, Einstein.

    Do your homework . . .
     
  8. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I believe the Catholic Church was kidding, hoping to rule over the believers that way, and they are getting away with it. Those promises are not restricted to the leaders in the Catholic Church when Christ is the Head of every believer.
     
  9. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Jesus gave the power to forgive sins or hold them bound - NOT to the crowds, but to His inner circle in the Upper room.

    Here's a little hermeutical hint for you:
    When Jesus addressed the crowds - He was addressing ALL of us.
    When He instructed His Apostles and inner circle - He was instructing the leaders of His Church.
     
  10. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    WRONG.
    Read post #289 . . .
     
  11. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Such as??
     
  12. Jane_Doe22

    Jane_Doe22 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,131
    Likes Received:
    2,584
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Throwing mud around never makes anyone clean.

    And that's all I'm going to say.
     
  13. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And so such authority does with them? To prove succession, the disciples have to testify that they gave that succession to another, right? The CC bothers to vote and pick a Pope and yet we have no such teaching on how succession is chosen by scripture. I do believe there is reproof in scripture that denies such a thing.

    2 Corinthians 3:1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?

    Do consider that as a reproof by the scripture on why there is no succession in leadership and that the promises in Jesus Christ applies to all believers.

    2 Corinthians 1:18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    We are all suppose to mature and be grounded in the word to serve the Lord in leadership/servant capacity as He enables us as promised to all.
     
  14. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    2 Corinthians 1:18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    In case you missed it the first time.
     
  15. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Let no one call you Rabbi, or Master just as you are to call no one Father.

    I know you have scripture that does a run around BUT you nor the Catholic Church still has not explained what Jesus was talking about then.

    Who are you NOT suppose to call Father to avoid being like the Pharisees and the scribes that love the best seats in public places that serve as rulers?
     
  16. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    WRONG.
    Not only does the NT teach Apostolic Succession - it ALSO teaches that there IS a distinction between the clergy and the laity . . .

    When the Apostles and the inner circle gathered to choose a successor for Judas in Acts 1, this is what they said:
    Acts 1:20
    For it is written in the Book of Psalms: ‘Let his encampment become desolate, and may no one dwell in it.’ And: ‘May another take his OFFICE.’

    The Greek word used here for "Office" is Eposkopay", which means "BISHOPRIC".
    Judas's absence left a vacancy in his OFFICE - his Bishoipric - and the Apostles chose Matthias to replace him

    The following is what Paul writes to further illustrate the clergy/laity distinction:
    1 Cor. 12:28
    Some people God has designated in the church to be, FIRST, apostles; SECOND, prophets; THIRD, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.

    1 Thess. 5:12
    We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

    1 Tim. 5:17
    Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

    2 Thess 2:15
    "Stand firm and hold fast to the Traditions you were taught, whether by an ORAL STATEMENT or by a letter from US."

    2 Tim. 2:2

    "What you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also".


     
  17. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    And this is a big fat LIE and the reason I don't take you seriously as a student of Scripture - OR as a sincere poster on this forum.
    I have addressed this point - AD NAUSEAM to you and a host of others - yet you STILL claim that I "haven't explained" it.
    ONE more time . . .

    In Matt. 23:8-9, Jesus is using hyperbole (exaggeration) to make a point and does so many times in Scripture. In verse 8, Jesus tells us not to call people “Teachers”. Is Jesus telling us that we can’t call certain people "fathers" or “teachers” when they may actually be fathers or teachers? NO.
    He is telling us that no man is to be considered father ABOVE our Father in heaven and no person is to be considered teacher ABOVE our Teacher in heaven.

    Jesus was speaking about the Scribes and Pharisees who exalted themselves before all: “They love places of honor at banquets, seats of honor in synagogues, greetings in marketplaces, and the salutation 'Rabbi” (Matt 23:6-7).

    Consider the following passages:

    - Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
    - St. Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
    - St. Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).
    - For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel" (1 Cor. 4:14–15).

    - "For this I was appointed a preacher and apostle . . . a TEACHER of the Gentiles in faith and truth" (1 Tim. 2:7).
    - "For this gospel I was appointed a preacher and apostle and TEACHER" (2 Tim. 1:11).
    - "God has appointed in the church first Apostles, second prophets, third TEACHERS" (1 Cor. 12:28).


    Deal with that - and TRY to stay honest . . .
     
  18. BreadOfLife

    BreadOfLife Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    15,642
    Likes Received:
    2,423
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    This verse says NOTHING about ALL followers of Christ being given the power to forgive sins.
    It doesn't even imply this.

    This passages is about not swearing by ANYBODY - but that your word is enough.
     
  19. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    When you start seeing that I am disagreeing with how you are applying His words to mean, then you will see I was not being dishonest.

    So how does a priest or a Pope avoid not exalting themselves in the manner of the scribes and Pharisees by the titles they are called by?

    Proof? No one called Peter, Father Peter. No one called Paul, Father Paul. Paul never referred to Peter as the Pope in any of his writings. Peter did not address Paul in his writings as Father Paul in spite of Paul testifying how he related to believers under his care which was by example as a father to his children rather than as a ruler to be called as such. So it is in this as exalting themselves in public places in churches as spiritual leaders by titles that leaves much to be desired. The CC rule more than they serve. They are served more than to serve. Kissing his ring, really? How is that not like the Pharisees and the chief rulers in public places?

    You keep referring to Abraham, Isaac, as the forefathers of the nations of Israel as if that justifies calling spirit leaders by that title, when it does not. If you say that it does, then Jesus can't bad mouth the scribes and the Pharisees, but He did. So you are stuck, brother.

    So no. It is not a hyperbole when the scribes and the Pharisees were being called Rabbi, Master, and Father. You keep using references of a position in the body of Christ which does not mean they were called that. Rabbi is an honorary title for someone being a teacher and so not the same thing.

    BTW scripture reproves the Catholic Church for saying Rabbi means Teacher.

    John 1:38Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?

    So when will the Catholic Church correct that oversight after all these years of reading the Bible and claiming to have the correct interpretation?
     
  20. Enow

    Enow Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,230
    Likes Received:
    219
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    2 Corinthians 1:18 But as God is true, our word toward you was not yea and nay. 19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea. 20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.

    You are confusing that passage above with Matthew 5:33-37 below. Those are 2 different subjects altogether. The above reference is about God's promises in Christ Jesus whereas the ones below is warning believers nit to make a vow, not even to swear by it to mean it, because we cannot make one hair white or black as only God can do God's work in us.

    Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
     
Loading...