Please explain why God tested Abraham.
Please explain why the scriptures say God tests us, our hearts and our faith?
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
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Please explain why the scriptures say God tests us, our hearts and our faith?
God will not reject anyone who loves Him.'For who maketh thee to differ from another?
and what hast thou that thou didst not receive?
now if thou didst receive it,
why dost thou glory,
as if thou hadst not received it?'
(1 Corinthians 4:7)
Hello @RogerDC,
Why are you being so hostile in your approach to @Eternally Grateful?
* I would like to consider a point you made to him, in which you said in reply#3941:- 'Scripture describes salvation as a "hope" in all least twenty verses in the NT, so your claim that you are already "saved" contradicts every one of those "hope" verses.'
* There are a number of Hebrew words translated 'Hope' in the Old Testament, but there is but one basic Greek word so translated in the New Testament. Hope in the New Testament is very often linked to a promise made: so that Hope looks to the fulfilment of a promise. ' Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen' (Hebrews 11:1).
* Our faith rests on the promises of God, therefore they are sure and certain. I have been promised life through His (Christ's) name. Therefore there is no element of doubt in my mind that I will receive it, for it rests on a promise that God has made: Whose promises are 'Yea' and 'Amen'; given by a God who is all powerful, and Who never lies. Yes! Salvation is also sure on that same principle, the believer having been 'sealed' with that Holy Spirit of promise.
'In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation:
in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Ephesians 1:13)
* The Believer is told assuredly that '... ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, Who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with Him in glory.' (Co.l 3:3-4) . I believe this, it is my hope, and there is nothing unsure or uncertain about it.
* Death for the believer, by God's reckoning, is as a 'sleep': for the believer has the sure hope of resurrection life, in Christ Jesus his Lord and Saviour.
* I am trusting in God to keep His promises, made in Christ Jesus His Beloved Son.
Praise God!
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Funny. Where is your "true" history? The truth is, you can't provide a single historical fact that supports your mendacious, anti-Catholic fairy tales. You live in a dreamworld of delusion, lies and wilful ignorance.
Which Church decided on the canon of the Bible? I believe it was the Catholic Church. That means you are placing your faith in a Catholic publication. Oh, the irony!
It's pathetic how Protestants turn dishonest fools like Luther and Tyndale into heroes. Even Henry VIII condemned Tyndale as a charlatan - hilarous.!
marksman
My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
The truth is even your own history shows that they BURNED every book which they considered heretical. And the people they claimed to be heretics where jailed. Outcast or killed.
The people who RULE write history.
so anyone who looks to history as proof of who is right or wrong is in prety bad shape. Because NON of us where there. And NON of us know what really happened.
And your attitude along with your brothers is shameful. I have a news flash for you.
If your church is Gods church, God does not need you to defend it. He is perfectly capable of protecting it himself. In fact, he said if no one listens walk away and wipe your feet.
As I shared earlier, God resists the proud. and gives grace to the humble. You should eat some humble pie.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
taken from the catholic encyclopedia
When Constantine had taken upon himself the office of lay bishop, episcopus externus, and put the secular arm at the service of the Church, the laws against heretics became more and more rigorous. Under the purely ecclesiastical discipline no temporal punishment could be inflicted on the obstinate heretic, except the damage which might arise to his personal dignity through being deprived of all intercourse with his former brethren. But under the Christian emperors rigorous measures were enforced against the goods and persons of heretics. From the time of Constantine to Theodosius and Valentinian III (313-424) various penal laws were enacted by the Christian emperors against heretics as being guilty of crime against the State. "In both the Theodosian and Justinian codes they were styled infamous persons; all intercourse was forbidden to be held with them; they were deprived of all offices of profit and dignity in the civil administration, while all burdensome offices, both of the camp and of the curia, were imposed upon them; they were disqualified from disposing of their own estates by will, or of accepting estates bequeathed to them by others; they were denied the right of giving or receiving donations, of contracting, buying, and selling; pecuniary fines were imposed upon them; they were often proscribed and banished, and in many cases scourged before being sent into exile. In some particularly aggravated cases sentence of death was pronounced upon heretics, though seldom executed in the time of the Christian emperors of Rome. Theodosius is said to be the first who pronounced heresy a capital crime; this law was passed in 382 against the Encratites, the Saccophori, the Hydroparastatae, and the Manichæans. Heretical teachers were forbidden to propagate their doctrines publicly or privately; to hold public disputations; to ordain bishops, presbyters, or any other clergy; to hold religious meetings; to build conventicles or to avail themselves of money bequeathed to them for that purpose. Slaves were allowed to inform against their heretical masters and to purchase their freedom by coming over to the Church. The children of heretical parents were denied their patrimony and inheritance unless they returned to the Catholic Church. The books of heretics were ordered to be burned." ( Vide "Codex Theodosianus", lib. XVI, tit. 5, "De Haereticis".)
So when someone tells you that there is no proof or evidence of any teaching other than the catholic church teachings, Their own encyclopedia tells you why.
when you DESTROY all evidence. and punish all people who even hold to these beliefs, there will never be any evidence.
According to the actual catholic article I read a few years ago, I am sure I can find it if asked.
Heresies included but were not limited to
Eucharist
Virginity of Mary
There were many things which were considered heresy which imposed these penalties, most of which are being argued in these very forums today
So how about instead of fighting and arguing, we sit down to what CAN be trusted. The word of God (who God gave us, not any church)
When Constantine had taken upon himself the office of lay bishop, episcopus externus, and put the secular arm at the service of the Church, the laws against heretics became more and more rigorous. Under the purely ecclesiastical discipline no temporal punishment could be inflicted on the obstinate heretic, except the damage which might arise to his personal dignity through being deprived of all intercourse with his former brethren. But under the Christian emperors rigorous measures were enforced against the goods and persons of heretics. From the time of Constantine to Theodosius and Valentinian III (313-424) various penal laws were enacted by the Christian emperors against heretics as being guilty of crime against the State. "In both the Theodosian and Justinian codes they were styled infamous persons; all intercourse was forbidden to be held with them; they were deprived of all offices of profit and dignity in the civil administration, while all burdensome offices, both of the camp and of the curia, were imposed upon them; they were disqualified from disposing of their own estates by will, or of accepting estates bequeathed to them by others; they were denied the right of giving or receiving donations, of contracting, buying, and selling; pecuniary fines were imposed upon them; they were often proscribed and banished, and in many cases scourged before being sent into exile. In some particularly aggravated cases sentence of death was pronounced upon heretics, though seldom executed in the time of the Christian emperors of Rome. Theodosius is said to be the first who pronounced heresy a capital crime; this law was passed in 382 against the Encratites, the Saccophori, the Hydroparastatae, and the Manichæans. Heretical teachers were forbidden to propagate their doctrines publicly or privately; to hold public disputations; to ordain bishops, presbyters, or any other clergy; to hold religious meetings; to build conventicles or to avail themselves of money bequeathed to them for that purpose. Slaves were allowed to inform against their heretical masters and to purchase their freedom by coming over to the Church. The children of heretical parents were denied their patrimony and inheritance unless they returned to the Catholic Church. The books of heretics were ordered to be burned." ( Vide "Codex Theodosianus", lib. XVI, tit. 5, "De Haereticis".)
So when someone tells you that there is no proof or evidence of any teaching other than the catholic church teachings, Their own encyclopedia tells you why.
when you DESTROY all evidence. and punish all people who even hold to these beliefs, there will never be any evidence.
According to the actual catholic article I read a few years ago, I am sure I can find it if asked.
Heresies included but were not limited to
Eucharist
Virginity of Mary
There were many things which were considered heresy which imposed these penalties, most of which are being argued in these very forums today
So how about instead of fighting and arguing, we sit down to what CAN be trusted. The word of God (who God gave us, not any church)
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is of God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God. 8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love...19 We love Him because He first loved us.
Romans 5:5 - Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
lol Careful about jumping into the middle of a conversation. It is kind of like the word assume.
Notice how the warning is not in bold type... 'And grieve not the holy Spirit of God..."
An earnest (down-payment)... Until the redemption of the purchased possession.
Nothing is stated as to some unconditional guarantee that the believer cannot break this Seal. The Seal is the Holy Spirit which we are warned not to grieve.
Appealing to the Seal does not prove anything in the way of Grace. Assuming that Grace is a thing; a repository of endless favor, is not Biblical.
Even worse is the person who thinks a statue listens to their prayers!
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
when someone says I give you this as a pledge of my promise UNTIL a set time, And does not give any means of which this seal can be broken.
We should take him at his word. and if for some reason, that pledge is not fulfilled. The maker of the pledge is deemed unworthy and untrustworthy.
If people would realize How bad they make God look.. Maybe some of this would go away
We should take him at his word. and if for some reason, that pledge is not fulfilled. The maker of the pledge is deemed unworthy and untrustworthy.
If people would realize How bad they make God look.. Maybe some of this would go away
'That we should be to the praise of His glory,
who first trusted in Christ.
In Whom (Christ) ye also trusted,
after that ye heard the word of truth,
the gospel of your salvation:
in Whom (Christ) also after that ye believed,
ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Which is the earnest of our inheritance
until the redemption of the purchased possession,
unto the praise of His glory.'
(Ephesians 1:12-14)
Hello @Candidus,
We trust in Christ, and are sealed in Christ, and He does not fail. Listen with the hearing of faith, see with the eyes of faith, and then you will believe, and be assured that He is faithful that promised.
Praise His Holy Name!
In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Grieving the Holy Spirit is not God's failure, but is our failure. No one ever said that God failed; and God has never claimed that we had an unconditional guaranteed salvation.
BreadOfLife
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THANK YOU for proving our point that it was the STATE and KINGDOMS that executed heretics - and NOT the Church.
Although - my favorite portion of your nonsense above is the portion in RED. It always makes me laugh when an ignorant anti-Catholic like yourself claims to have "read an article" that proclaims such unbelievable nonsense - but you "can't" seem to find it.
You can't find it because you never read it - it's just another LIE.
Belief in the Eucharist was never considered heresy - NOR was belief iin Mary's Perpetual Virginity.
We read about belief in the Eucharist in 1 Corinthians 11:27-30, which corresponds with the Last Supper narratives in Matt. 26:26–28, Mark 14:22–24 and Luke 22:19–20 - as well as the Bread of Life Discourse in John 6:22-71.
We ALSO read from 1st century Bishop, Ignatius of Antioch in his Letter to the Smyrnaeans about the fervent belief of the Early Church in the Real Presence. Mary' Perpetual Virginity was being preached and defended in in 2nd century documents such as the Protoevangelium of James and the writings of Origen in the Third century - LONG before Constantine was ever in power.
So, nice try - but you have FAILED again . . .
James 1:2-3 KJV
[2] My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; [3] Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
1 Peter 1:7-9 KJV
[7] That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: [8] Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: [9] Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
now I have answered your question, please answer mine...’Where does official Catholic teachings teach that “God doesn’t know all things “?
'And grieve not the holy Spirit of God,
whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.'
(Ephesians 4:30)
Hello @Candidus,
Yes, it is possible for us to grieve the holy Spirit of God, whereby we are sealed unto the day of redemption: but that does not result in a loss of salvation. For we are 'sealed unto the day', and nothing can take that away (Romans 8:35 & 39)
Praise God!
You say (quote), 'God has never claimed that we had an unconditional guaranteed salvation', but, with respect, that is a statement that it is incumbent upon you to prove; not for me to disprove.
Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris
There is a problem with the verse Eph 4:30 "unto" or "for" This sealing is for the day of redemption, but there is no promise that the seal remains or it is guaranteed, while it lasts it shows the presence of the Lord in a life.
What would be interesting is how those who are sealed in Christ feel after they have fallen away.
The kings seal is a statement of authority for the message inside. If not broken the message is valid.
It does not guarantee it cannot be broken, by its nature seals are for the recipient to know the authority by which the message is given.
Looking at those who claim this seal so desperately and yet fail to acknowledge the ways of Christ, whatever seal they claim to have, their hearts are not dwelling in God or honouring the Holy Spirit who they claim is their guarantee. So for them I would suggest this language is just that, language.
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