The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
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BreadOfLife
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No, obedience is the result of salvation and the proof that we are saved. Salvation is entirely the work of God and nothing we do contributes to it. Hebrews 5:9 speaks of our obedience to the command to trust in him and not in our own work.
BreadOfLife
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WRONG.
If you don't cooperate with God's grace - you cannot possibly be saved. God is not a rapist who forces His love on us and drags us kicking and screaming into Heaven against our will. He gives us the choice to follow Him.
Case in point:
Matt. 23:37
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, AND YOU WERE NOT WILLING.
Salvation is a free gift - IF we accept it.
So, do you know anyone that ever existed that had a proper name of Father or Son?
I thought they were titles?
Name of the Father is Father?
Name of the Son is Son?
Lots of shadows.
Rev_1:5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
Heb_10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
BreadOfLife
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That's exactly the point.
Do you have a proper name for the Father or the Holy Spirit?
No - but Jesus commanded that the Church Baptize in their "names".
He wasn't telling us the they all had proper names. He was giving us the formula by which to Baptize.
This is one of those time where we have to stop thinking with fleshly minds and try to think spiritually.
I have indeed addressed 1 John 1:8, and Romans 7:14-25, within this very thread. I will post the links to the posts shortly.
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever
I do indeed have sin...indwelling sin. I can walk in freedom from and victory over indwelling sin even though sin dwells in me...I don't have to submit to the dictates of what indwelling sin wants me to do. I can walk above the desires of the flesh so that I do not obey them.
1 John 1:8 does not say that if we say that we don't sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth isn't in us. If that were the case, then 1 John 3:5-9 wouldn't be the reality; but it is the reality. 1 John 1:8 declares that we all have sin dwelling in us as an element that is either alive or dead...if it be alive, then we do not have the blessing of 1 John 3:5-9; but if it be dead, then we do not have to obey the dictates of indwelling sin....it is in fact rendered dead so that it no longer dictates to us the behaviour of sin...it is rendered dead and therefore silent.
And I have not claimed that I never stumble.
I have claimed that I do not stumble during any moments of my life that I am found abiding in Christ.
1 John 3:6 is clear on this: that if we abide in Christ, we sin not, for as long as we abide in Christ.
This should teach us the method and key to walking in freedom and victory over indwelling sin.
Jhn 15:1, I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2, Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3, Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4, Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5, I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6, If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7, If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Jhn 15:8, Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Psa 104:16, The trees of the LORD are full of sap; the cedars of Lebanon, which he hath planted;
We draw up nourishment from the vine and this enables us to walk in freedom and victory; and to bear much fruit.
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No, in the name(singular).
Read the verse carefully.
It is saying to baptize in a singular name.
Are the 3 titles a singular name or...
Is is proposing a particular name for the 3 titles?
Like Matt 28:19 equals Acts 2:38?
I think so
We are together vindicating Acts 2:38.
Both water and Spirit are needed to complete the new birth.
Repentance kills, water buries and Spirit infilling renews.
One that is not yet dead and buried cannot be scripturally renewed.
If one is made alive prior to baptism, then when they are finally baptized, they are technically buried alive.
Most certainly....if you don't want to go to heaven, God is not going to force you to enter in kicking and screaming....
However, there is a sense in which I think that such a thing would be more loving of God than what we find in the reality.
no they are not, how many times aound the circle do you need to go before you get off it and get on with your life, and let others get on with theres.
Yes I agree...
Jesus is the name of the Father (John 5:43),
John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.
Jesus is the name of the Son (Matthew 1:21)
Matthew 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Jesus is the name of the Holy Ghost (John 14:26)
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
In the book of John, after the last supper, Jesus has a private conversation with the apostles...
John 14:7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
[8] Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
John tells us something similar...
8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
[27] They understood not that he spake to them of the Father.
THE GREAT COMMISSION GIVEN:
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Let's find out what His followers "SAID" in order to obey (fulfill) Jesus' Great Commission of Matthew 28:19...
THE GREAT COMMISSION IN ACTION:
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Acts 8:16 "(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus)."
Acts 19:5 "When they heard this, they were baptized in the NAME of the Lord Jesus."
Nowhere in the Bible was anyone ever baptized in the titles of Father, Son, Holy Ghost ... Jesus was telling them what to DO, not what to repeat verbatim, which is the problem with the denominational church today.
Keep up the good work, Brother!
Thank you,
God bless!
Don't stop there, let's keep reading...
Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Here is an example...
Acts 16:27 And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.
Acts 16:28 But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.
Acts 16:29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
Acts 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Acts 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
Acts 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Acts 16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.
We see that "preaching of Jesus" water baptism was preached.
And again...
Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
Acts 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Acts 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Acts 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Acts 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Acts 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
We read that in the "Preaching of Jesus", water baptism is preached.
Now let's go forward to Acts 10...
Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
They were commanded, so I guess this is something important. Why? ...
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
And, this is exactly what Peter preached in Acts...
Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
God bless!
I guess you missed this bit,
Act 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Act 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
see all recieved before they where even baptized, everything changed after Jesus, even the disciples had troubles coming to grips
Act_11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
fir even John Himself knew,
Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
water was before the Holy Spirit came after.
There are examples in the Bible of water baptism being before or after Holy Ghost.
In fact, the Gospel of Jesus is his Death, Burial, Resurrection and Ascension. And this is exactly what Perter said to do in Acts...
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
1. Repent (symbolic death)
2. Baptism (symbolic burial)
3. Holy Ghost (symbolic resurrection)
Paul has this to say...
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
I believe that "Truther" pointed out in this thread, there are those who received the Holy Ghost but have NOT been water baptized in the name of Jesus, which is not a good position for them to be in. And, is why Peter (in Acts 10:48) commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Hope this helps,
God bless!
Why?? do you not have any faith in the cleansing powers of His blood and sacrifice.
Jesus never needed to be baptized in water, he who is perfect was perfect, it was a demonstration. Baptizm in Water saves no one it just adds to.
Apparently it is quite significant considering Jesus, who knew no sin, walked from Nazareth to Bethabara (probably about 50-60 miles) to be baptized by John the Baptist. When John the Baptist told Jesus that it needed to be the other way around (him being baptized by Jesus), Jesus told him that it was necessary to fulfill all righteousness.
And let's not forget...
Mark 16:16 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."
John 3:5 "Jesus answered, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."
Acts 2:38 "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death:..."
Colossians 2:12 "Buried with Him in baptism,..."
(THE GREAT COMMISSION GIVEN):
"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
Romans 6
3] Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13] Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14] For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15] What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
19] I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
20] For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
21] What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
22] But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
God Bless!
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