The myth of grace-only & easy-believism shattered forever

[Truther]

Both of these verses refer to the baptism with the Holy Spirit
with the confirming evidence of speaking in tongues.
Nothing to do with salvation ... it's a second work of grace, as they say.
More info is available, if requested.
.

Water baptism is for remission of sins.

Receiving the Holy Ghost is to assist us the rest of the way.

Folks are running around with the Holy Ghost, unbaptized, these days.

They are still in sin, with the Holy Ghost attempting to get them baptized.

Tough spot for them and the Holy Ghost.

Thank goodness God does not get tired.

 

[justbyfaith]

And now, you’re just being dishonest.
Thank GOD that Paul and John weren’t.

They explained that although they were fully committed to Christ – they STUMBLED on occasion because their sanctification was not complete (Rom. 7:14-25, 1 Tim. 1:15, 1 John 1:8). They understood and explained that we are in the PROCESS of being sanctified. This process is a LIFELONG journey – not a one-time, slam dunk event.

Once again – the verses you preset are words of encouragement to keep us ono the right track. They are NOT a guarantee that we will ALWAYS stay on that track. We must do what is required by them 100% of the time – 24/7 for the rest of our life in order to be sinless. This would make you perfect – which you ain’t.

Cherry-picking the Word of God has gotten you to this place of total confusion - and spiritual arrogance . . .

The Lord is the One who keeps me.

I have explained Romans 7:14-25 already; as well as 1 John 1:8.

In 1 Timothy 1:15, Paul is verily speaking of his past. He was formerly a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious (1 Timothy 1:13).

But if he continued to be the chief of sinners in his practical life, then 2 Corinthians 5:17 would not have been true of him; he would not be in Christ.

And what I am saying is that it takes abiding for us to walk in freedom from sin, on a moment-by-moment basis...it may be true that we do not abide consistently, 24/7...however, the possibility is there that we might do so for the rest of our lives.

If I can abide for 5 minutes, then I can abide for an hour. And if for an hour, then for a day. And if for a day, then for a month. and if for a month, then for a year. And if for a year, then for a decade. And if for a decade, then for the rest of my life. And if for the rest of my life, then throughout eternity. I don't think that there will be anyone in heaven who will be sinning. And eternal life begins now (John 5:24).

 

[mjrhealth]

Okay, so the only alternative is being baptized into Christ.

Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

 

[Truther]

Act 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Act 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Act 15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
Act 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

It still does not tell us how we get INTO Christ.
Again, how does one SCRIPTURALLY get into Christ other than being baptized into Him?

 

[mjrhealth]

It still does not tell us how we get INTO Christ.
Again, how does one SCRIPTURALLY get into Christ other than being baptized into Him?

Why dont you believe Him? Do you not have any confidence in Him?

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

its enough for Him

 

[Truther]

Why dont you believe Him? Do you not have any confidence in Him?

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

its enough for Him

You skipped Acts completely.

That was written to saints.

You just stole the saints mail and gave it to sinners, skipping Acts all the while.

Wow.

 

[mjrhealth]

You skipped Acts completely.

That was written to saints.

You just stole the saints mail and gave it to sinners, skipping Acts all the while.

Wow.

You missed it all didnt you, all men are sinners before they become saints, and one is a saint because one is sanctified by Christ.

 

[theophilus]

Will those who continue in disobedience to the will of God be saved?

Those who are saved will not continue in disobedience. God disciplines his children and doesn't allow them to continue in sin.

It still does not tell us how we get INTO Christ.
Again, how does one SCRIPTURALLY get into Christ other than being baptized into Him?

1 Corinthians 12:13 say, "In one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit." It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not water baptism, that unites us with Christ.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Those who are saved will not continue in disobedience. God disciplines his children and doesn't allow them to continue in sin.

Therefore obedience is a necessary part of salvation hence man does have something to do to be saved....obey Hebrews 5:9.

 

[BreadOfLife]

The Lord is the One who keeps me.

I have explained Romans 7:14-25 already; as well as 1 John 1:8.

In 1 Timothy 1:15, Paul is verily speaking of his past. He was formerly a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious (1 Timothy 1:13).

But if he continued to be the chief of sinners in his practical life, then 2 Corinthians 5:17 would not have been true of him; he would not be in Christ.

And what I am saying is that it takes abiding for us to walk in freedom from sin, on a moment-by-moment basis...it may be true that we do not abide consistently, 24/7...however, the possibility is there that we might do so for the rest of our lives.

If I can abide for 5 minutes, then I can abide for an hour. And if for an hour, then for a day. And if for a day, then for a month. and if for a month, then for a year. And if for a year, then for a decade. And if for a decade, then for the rest of my life. And if for the rest of my life, then throughout eternity. I don't think that there will be anyone in heaven who will be sinning. And eternal life begins now (John 5:24).

First of all - you didn't address Rom. 7:14-25 and 1 John 1:8.
Paul's claim to be "Chief of sinners" was one of great humility and acknowledgement of his imperfection - which is something you lack.

All YOU did was offer some nonsense about the idea that you have "indwelling sin" but you don't have sin.
Utter and complete anti-Biblical rubbish. Either you have sin or you don't - and 1 John 1:8 states explicitly that if you say you don't - you have deceived yourself and the truth is NOT in you.

Your Pharisaical claim that you "never" stumble is one of great arrogance and spiritual pride.
Good luck with that kind of self-righteous denial on Judgement Day . . .

 

[Truther]

Those who are saved will not continue in disobedience. God disciplines his children and doesn't allow them to continue in sin.


1 Corinthians 12:13 say, "In one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit." It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not water baptism, that unites us with Christ.

Of course, so this is what Romans 6 means?.....


3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death:...

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, ...

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, ...

7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

8 Now if we be dead with Christ,..



The Spirit did this, or water baptism?

 

[Truther]

You missed it all didnt you, all men are sinners before they become saints, and one is a saint because one is sanctified by Christ.

And one receives sanctification by obeying Acts 2:38, entirely.

 

[Truther]

Col 2:12
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.


This is what Acts 2:38 is all about.(water and/also Spirit baptism)

 

[BreadOfLife]

That's probably the reason why it's in the NT.
Also ... Paul said he came to preach the gospel, not to baptize.
If water baptism was essential, he would not have said this..

WOW - another Scriptural perversion.
Time for a Bible lesson . . .

In 1 Cor. 1:17, Paul states:"For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with the wisdom of human eloquence, so that the cross of Christ might not be emptied of its meaning."


Did you bother to read the SEVEN verses prior to this??
Paul is admonishing the Corinthians NOT to break into factions - you know, the way Protestants do.
He said:

1 Cor. 1:10-16
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, AND THAT THERE BE NO DIVISIONS AMONG YOU, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose.
For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you.
I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
I give thanks [to God] that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, SO THAT NO ONE CAN SAY YOU WERE BAPTIZED IN MY NAME. I baptized the household of Stephanas also; beyond that I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.


Paul is using HYPERBOLE to make his point that it doesn’t matter WHO baptized them – what matters is that they belong to CHRIST.
This is the same type of hyperbole that Christ Himself used many times. For example – in John 12:44, He says:
“He who believes in me, believes not in me but in him who sent me.”


Is Jesus telling them NOT to believe in Him – but ONLY the Father?
NO. He is using hyperbole to show the Father’s Authority by which He was sent.

For YOU to falsely accuse Paul of not taking Baptism seriously is to accuse him of disobeying Jesus in the Great Commission:
Matt. 28:19-20
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, BAPTIZING THEM in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

Be careful about falsely accusing Christ's Apostles of rejecting His doctrines as YOU have . . .

 

[Truther]

Bread of Life....

Father, son and Holy Ghost are titles.

The name is Jesus to baptize folks in.

Peter defined it for us at Pentecost.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Bread of Life....
Father, son and Holy Ghost are titles.
The name is Jesus to baptize folks in.
Peter defined it for us at Pentecost.

Actually, no.

Jesus commanded His disciples to “. . . make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt. 28:19).

God is a Trinity. We are Baptized into GOD – not just one Person of the Trinity.
That would be pitting God against Himself.

In Acts 2:38, when Peter tells the crowd to be Baptized in the “name of Jesus Christ” – he is telling them to be Baptized with the Baptism OF Christ.
When in doubt – follow the words of Christ.

 

[Zachary]

1 Corinthians 12:13 say, "By one Spirit we were all baptized into one body
—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit."
It is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, not water baptism, that unites us with Christ.

This is only talking about salvation ... baptism into the church body.
Here, the Holy Spirit is doing the baptizing!

RE: the baptism with the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in tongues),
Jesus does the baptizing (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33)
.

 

[Zachary]

In 1 Cor. 1:17, Paul states:"For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel"

Yes, you're probably correct ... I've been taking what Paul said here out of context.
However, almost all Christians believe water baptism is NOT necessary for salvation.
And I hope no one brings up the thief on the cross.

.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Yes, you're probably correct ... I've been taking what Paul said here out of context.
However, almost all Christians believe water baptism is NOT necessary for salvation.
And I hope no one brings up the thief on the cross..

I hope they DO bring him up.
The Thief was an exception to the rule - NOT the norm.

God can and DOES make exceptions. He is not bound by anything.
The Thief would have been baptized if he had the opportunity because he had a repentant heart. Besides - he was a little "busy" at the time.
Millions of Aborted Babies are another exception because they are unable to be baptized.

The thief is a perfect example of what the Church calls "Baptism of Desire".
Jesus gave His Church the Keys to the Kingdom of Heaven - WHATEVER His Church bound or loosed on earth would be bound or loosed in Heaven (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, John 20:21-23). He also promised that the Holy Spirit would guide that Church to ALL Truth (John 16:12-15).

Like I said - the Thief was an exception.
Never base your doctrines on the exception . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

This is only talking about salvation ... baptism into the church body.
Here, the Holy Spirit is doing the baptizing!

RE: the baptism with the Holy Spirit (with the evidence of speaking in tongues),
Jesus does the baptizing (Matthew 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33)
.

It is ANTI-Biblical to say that one must speak in tongues as evidence of Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
1 Cor. 12:28-31
Some people God has designated in the church to be, first, apostles; second, prophets; third, teachers; then, mighty deeds; then, gifts of healing, assistance, administration, and varieties of tongues.
Are ALL apostles? Are ALL prophets? Are ALL teachers? Do ALL work mighty deeds?
Do ALL have gifts of healing? DO ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES? Do all interpret?
Strive eagerly for the greatest spiritual gifts.

Tongues are ONE gift - not THE gift.