The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[BloodBought 1953]

We are to give the Gospel to everyone, then let God take it from there.

True. This concept is proven by the story of “Lydia,the Seller Of purple” in Acts......Look it up......” God OPENED HER HEART to the Gospel Of Paul”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Here again you deny 1 John 2:2, you deny John 3:16, you deny several other scriptures you have been shown.

There's no way out of this for you, you have been proven wrong in false doctrine and deny it has happened.

How true.....I was going to follow this thread for awhile, but what’s the point.....like my late father used to say....”Some people just don't have good sense”......it takes a “ Man” to admit He is Wrong .....

 

[Taken]

He died for the Sheep Jn 10

You are starting with the "end" result.
Review the "order" / "way".

He gave his Flesh Body, FOR the LIFE "OF" the World.

ORDER-
•All "OF" the world, begin naturally, Against God.
•His Gift, OF His Flesh...was FOR ALL, OF the World Againt God, AND, once Gods Christ was "revealed", also, Against Him. <- mankinds, "Natural and Chosen" Sin Against The Lord God.

WAY-
New Covenant/Promise
Option for mankind; Elect/Choose Offering
Belief, Submission - OR - Reject

Man choose to Reject the Lord God-
Man becomes Rejected by the Lord God-

Man chooses to Believe & Submit-
The Lord God Accepts and Keeps the man, calls them "the Lords Sheep", and He their Shepherd.

THEN- are the SHEEP Established and Individually identifiable and prepared for a day of the Lord Gods "claiming / Taking unto Himself." His Flock.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

I never tell anyone Christ died for their sins, neither did the Apostles. I simply tell people who it is Christ died for, His Sheep, and what His death accomplished for them. You should only tell people Christ died for the sins of His People Matt 1:21

Jesus died for the sins of Adolf Hitler ,Stalin, Pol Pot and even Donald Trump—- you either “ Cash In” to what has already been accomplished at the Cross or you don’t.......

I think that Christians who hate Donald Trump must simply be unaware of how he has championed Christian causes during his Presidency. I heard that he actually received Christ near the beginning of his first term.

1Jo 4:20, If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jo 4:21, And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Therefore how can any hater of Trump be a lover of God?

 

[fellow]

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Mat 13:25 But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.
Mat 13:27 So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?
Mat 13:28 He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?
Mat 13:29 But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.
Mat 13:30 Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

Tares are children of the devil. There really are children of the devil here today! I mean real people not those you thank are evil, but those you would think were just normal people.

Do you believe that?

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus died for those it was promised that He shall save from their sins Matt 1:21


21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.[which means by the way, those he does not save from their sins were not his people]


Thats the promise, all else is speculation and doctrines of men and devils.


Lk 19:10


10For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.[which means those He came to seek and to save are not lost but found]


He came to do His Fathers will, that all the Father hath given Him, He should loose nothing Jn 6:39


39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given [perfect tense] me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.


The word for will here is the greek word:


thelēma:


what one wishes or has determined shall be done


a) of the purpose of God to bless mankind through Christ

b) of what God wishes to be done by us

1) commands, precepts

2) will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure



All that He hath given me indicates all who has been chosen by the Father, and has been given [ once and for all in the past time with effects into the present] by the Father to the Son for salvation and to give eternal life Jn 10:26-30


26But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.



27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.


30I and my Father are one.


Now in light of the afore mentioned scriptures, how do we or should understand 1 Tim 2:4


4Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.


Who is it that desires this ? Is it not the Father of Jesus Christ who sent Him to do His will ?


Are the same people in view in 1 Tim 2:4 as is in Jn 6:39 ?


Where it is said of Jesus, that He should not loose nothing !!


What about those in 2 Pet 3 :9


9The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


Are the ones here, whom God is not willing that any should perish, the same as the ones in Jn 6:39 ?


If so, then the conclusion is , it is The Fathers will for the Son to save all and bring all to repentance as indicated, and if the Son does not, and looses some, that they perish, then He has not done His Fathers will. If any do perish that Christ is to save, according to His Fathers will [Jn 6:39] then Christ has failed in executing His Fathers will, because some has perished, whom His Father was not willing to perish [ 2 Pet 3:9], hence, Christ was a disappointment and not a complete Saviour.106


He may have sought that was lost Lk 19:10, but He did not save all that was lost.


This is the dilemma we have if we say that Christ died for all men without exception to save them, but yet all men without exception are not saved, and some of them perish in their sins.

 

[brightfame52]

So, is it true teaching to say that Jesus will reject those who are not of the elect if they attempt to come to Him in faith?

My Bible tells me that He will in no wise cast them out (John 6:37).

You persist in your false views, Christ died specifically for His Sheep Jn 10 and all are not His Sheep !

 

[brightfame52]

You are starting with the "end" result.
Review the "order" / "way".

He gave his Flesh Body, FOR the LIFE "OF" the World.

ORDER-
•All "OF" the world, begin naturally, Against God.
•His Gift, OF His Flesh...was FOR ALL, OF the World Againt God, AND, once Gods Christ was "revealed", also, Against Him. <- mankinds, "Natural and Chosen" Sin Against The Lord God.

WAY-
New Covenant/Promise
Option for mankind; Elect/Choose Offering
Belief, Submission - OR - Reject

Man choose to Reject the Lord God-
Man becomes Rejected by the Lord God-

Man chooses to Believe & Submit-
The Lord God Accepts and Keeps the man, calls them "the Lords Sheep", and He their Shepherd.

THEN- are the SHEEP Established and Individually identifiable and prepared for a day of the Lord Gods "claiming / Taking unto Himself." His Flock.

Glory to God,
Taken

He died for His Sheep, and not all without exception, thats a myth !

 

[Enoch111]

How true.....I was going to follow this thread for awhile, but what’s the point

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

 

[Taken]

He died for His Sheep, and not all without exception, thats a myth !

Try Reading and Listening.
There is a difference between Jesus Dying for All and how many (NOT all), accepting His Gift.

Trust the Scriptures.
He gave his Flesh Body for the Life "OF" the World.

He said Himself.
John 6:
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

Those "OF" the World are SINNERS.

Already showed you...
OF the world, is a natural man's first Birth.

Any man WHO, accepts Jesus' Gift Offering OF His Flesh Body...
BECOME, "Born Again"
BECOME, "MADE", His Sheep.
BECOME, no longer, "OF" the world.

Jesus Bodily DIED FOR the Whole World.
Only the men who Accept His Offering, BECOME His Sheep, Saved and Quickened UNTO Him.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I think that Christians who hate Donald Trump must simply be unaware of how he has championed Christian causes during his Presidency. I heard that he actually received Christ near the beginning of his first term.

1Jo 4:20, If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1Jo 4:21, And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Therefore how can any hater of Trump be a lover of God?

He is on record as saying that he has never had any need to ask for Forgiveness......he has not even entered the “ Starting Gate” Of Christianity. If one does not possess the Contrite Heart That convicts a man or woman that they are Lost Sinners Who MUST have a Savior in order to be Saved, he is as Lost as Lost can be....Far from having that “ Contrite Heart”, He has a Black Heart , proven by making fun of a man with physical deformities , by posting an ugly picture of Ted Cruz wife next to His model wife for the world to see and topping it all off with holding to the Big Lie that he never lost the election— that Lie lit the fuse to the Treasonous takeover at the capital that resulted in five deaths.....to this day he lacks the guts to “ put on his big- boy pants” and admit that he lost Fair and square ....And now he has Blood on his hands.....he could have stopped the unpatriotic and undemocratic events anytime he chose to by calling out the National Guard. Instead he chose to sit in the White House and watch the events with glee....so proud of what his Sap Brigade was doing because of their “ love” for him......
The #1 responsibility of any President is to fulfill his Oath to protect the Constitution.....the Insurrection That He Loved and supported proved what a miserable excuse he was for a President. Shame on him.Shame on anybody that still continues to support this pathetic , hateful man with the Black Heart......
Never forget this—- Fidel Castro was Also a “ Christian” . Yeah, right.....he and Trump must have attended the same “ church”. Sad .Covfefe.

 

[justbyfaith]

21And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.[which means by the way, those he does not save from their sins were not his people]

"His people" were the Jews in this scripture; and yes, He does save people who are not the Jews.

Are the ones here, whom God is not willing that any should perish, the same as the ones in Jn 6:39 ?

Obviously, He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance, and the ones in John 6:39 are people whom He does not wish to perish. However,

Jhn 6:39, And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

These are people who heeded the call to receive Christ; and not everyone whom God is not willing to perish are these. For there are some whom God is not willing to perish who do not receive Him and therefore they are not the same people who are spoken of in John 6:39 (above).

If so, then the conclusion is , it is The Fathers will for the Son to save all and bring all to repentance as indicated, and if the Son does not, and looses some, that they perish, then He has not done His Fathers will. If any do perish that Christ is to save, according to His Fathers will [Jn 6:39] then Christ has failed in executing His Fathers will, because some has perished, whom His Father was not willing to perish [ 2 Pet 3:9], hence, Christ was a disappointment and not a complete Saviour.106

I have looked at this concept extensively.

It is obvious that the Lord wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4), is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), died as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6) and for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

So, Limited Atonement is not the reality.

Universalism is not the reality because there is a real hell that people go to (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46).

Therefore, Irresistible Grace is not the reality (not to mention, Acts of the Apostles 7:52 denies Irresistible Grace).

So, what does God's love never fail to do in all of God's Omnipotence (1 Corinthians 13:8-a, Revelation 19:6)?

It never fails to give man a perfect choice as to whether he will receive or reject Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour.

It does not fail to give man a degree of his own sovereignty so that he can choose to obey or disobey the Lord; and so that, having disobeyed the Lord, can choose whether or not to receive His forgiveness, turning away from his sins.

You persist in your false views, Christ died specifically for His Sheep Jn 10 and all are not His Sheep !

Jesus offers salvation to all and died so that all might be able to receive His salvation.

He does not close the door on those whom He deems to be the "non-elect", saying that He didn't die for them and therefore, even if they want to come to Christ and be saved, they cannot do so.

The fact that He died specifically for His sheep is speaking of the fact that His sacrifice does not avail for those who will never believe in Him.

It is not saying that He didn't die for everyone's sins (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6).

he could have stopped the unpatriotic and undemocratic events anytime he chose to by calling out the National Guard.

You obviously do not watch a faithful news source. He actually did offer the national guard to the Police at the capital, but they refused the help because they thought they could handle it.

and topping it all off with holding to the Big Lie that he never lost the election—

That was no lie. There was definitely fraud this last election. Biden even boasted how they had "such an integrated network for election fraud" on national television.

 

[brightfame52]

"His people" were the Jews in this scripture; and yes, He does save people who are not the Jews.



Obviously, He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance, and the ones in John 6:39 are people whom He does not wish to perish. However,

Jhn 6:39, And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

These are people who heeded the call to receive Christ; and not everyone whom God is not willing to perish are these. For there are some whom God is not willing to perish who do not receive Him and therefore they are not the same people who are spoken of in John 6:39 (above).



I have looked at this concept extensively.

It is obvious that the Lord wills all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4), is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), died as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6) and for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2).

So, Limited Atonement is not the reality.

Universalism is not the reality because there is a real hell that people go to (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46).

Therefore, Irresistible Grace is not the reality (not to mention, Acts of the Apostles 7:52 denies Irresistible Grace).

So, what does God's love never fail to do in all of God's Omnipotence (1 Corinthians 13:8-a, Revelation 19:6)?

It never fails to give man a perfect choice as to whether he will receive or reject Jesus Christ as his Lord and Saviour.

It does not fail to give man a degree of his own sovereignty so that he can choose to obey or disobey the Lord; and so that, having disobeyed the Lord, can choose whether or not to receive His forgiveness, turning away from his sins.



Jesus offers salvation to all and died so that all might be able to receive His salvation.

He does not close the door on those whom He deems to be the "non-elect", saying that He didn't die for them and therefore, even if they want to come to Christ and be saved, they cannot do so.

The fact that He died specifically for His sheep is speaking of the fact that His sacrifice does not avail for those who will never believe in Him.

It is not saying that He didn't die for everyone's sins (1 John 2:2, 1 Timothy 2:6).



You obviously do not watch a faithful news source. He actually did offer the national guard to the Police at the capital, but they refused the help because they thought they could handle it.



That was no lie. There was definitely fraud this last election. Biden even boasted how they had "such an integrated network for election fraud" on national television.

Post 126, did you read and understand it ? Lets discuss it

 

[justbyfaith]

Post 126, did you read and understand it ? Lets discuss it

The post that you are responding to in with the above quote was my response to post #126.

So, if you want to discuss, you can begin by responding to my response.

 

[brightfame52]

The post that you are responding to in with the above quote was my response to post #126.

So, if you want to discuss, you can begin by responding to my response.

post 126 do you want to discuss the details of the post ?

 

[justbyfaith]

post 126 do you want to discuss the details of the post ?

If you do.

You can start by responding to my response to that post.

 

[atpollard]

So, is it true teaching to say that Jesus will reject those who are not of the elect if they attempt to come to Him in faith?

[John 3:16-20 NASB95]
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.​

Those who are not “of the elect” (aka His sheep, the chosen) WILL NOT come to Him. Your ‘what if’ is a logical impossibility ... like a married bachelor.

 

[justbyfaith]

[John 3:16-20 NASB95]
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 "This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. 20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.​

Those who are not “of the elect” (aka His sheep, the chosen) WILL NOT come to Him. Your ‘what if’ is a logical impossibility ... like a married bachelor.

So, you're saying that if I come to Him, that makes me one of His elect.

Therefore, is not the logical conclusion that predestination is according to foreknowledge of whether a person will receive or reject Christ?

Because if God arbitrarily chooses some out for heaven and others for hell, and we have no choice in the matter, then if I am not of the elect, I cannot come to Him even if I tried.

If I do not believe, am I currently of the non-elect?

If that is the case, then only those who believe in Him from the moment of conception will even be saved (and, therefore, there is no real point in preaching the gospel to the unbelieving).

Because if I am currently of the non-elect if I don't believe, and Jesus only died for the elect, then Jesus didn't die for me if I don't believe (and am therefore of the non-elect). And if Jesus didn't die for me, I would not be saved even if I did what the Bible prescribes for me to do in order to obtain salvation (such as what is prescribed in Acts of the Apostles 2:38-39 or in Romans 10:8-13).

Nevertheless, Jesus said that whosoever comes to Him, He will in no wise cast out (John 6:37).

 

[FHII]

Another popular Myth in the religious world today, is the Jesus Christ died or gave His Life for everyone in the world without exception, but the problem with that, is there is not one shred of scripture evidence that states that.

Well, that's harsh! But unfortunately, its true. Much, but not all of this comes down to whether you believe in free will or predestination. I believe that God not only knows the outcome, but sid in fact predetermine it, and who would be saved and who would not.

What is totally lost when ever I try to explain my beliefs on this is this: IT DOESN'T MATTER BECAUSE GOD DOESN'T GIVE DIPLOMNAS, CROWNS OR CERTIFICATIONS BEFORE YOU EARN THEM!

I am dully persuaded that God knows who is saved. He predestined who is saved. It could be a sweet little girl who grew up in a religious environment and praised the Lord for her whole long life, or it could be a drug addict on his death bed. But either way, I am fully persuaded that God not only knew it, but he willed it to happen.

Unfortunately, it works both ways. If he knows who are His (and their aren't many who will argue otherwise) then he must also know who isn't.

If he has foreordained and willed some ro be His, then the contrary must be true. The problem is that some don't believe God fore ordains people. I disagree with that as I have too much scripture that says he does and has demonstrated the he does.

But the bottom line I want people to think about is this: whether you believe God predominates people or not... It doesn't matter! You must endure to the end and no man knows if they will until they reach the end. Not me. Not my Pastor. Not you. Paul didn't even know.

 

[justbyfaith]

Now, if we hear the words of Jesus and believe on Him who sent Him, we have already passed from death unto everlasting life (John 5:24 (kjv)).

So, everlasting life begins at the moment of first faith, for the one whose faith apprehends the sealing of the Holy Spirit.