The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[quietthinker]

I asked “To whom did Jesus Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice for sin?”

Your answer “He offered himself to humanity.…”

Please explain to us how and why Jesus offered to humanity, Himself as a sacrifice for sin.

What can you say of the following passage in relation to His sacrifice of Himself?

Hebrews 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The passage, contrary to your position, says that Jesus Christ offered Himself to God.

Tong
R4091

Jesus’ reality offered himself to God all the way to dying. He never failed....he endured the limitations he was willingly subjected to... he overcame.

Think in terms of his life that he gave as opposed to thinking of his death that he gave (gave in the sense of appeasement)

His death was a result of being hated by the forces that run this world. They hated him because he gave as opposed to took. He willingly serves because the nature of God’s Kingdom is service.....the other has precedence over the self.

 

[ChristisGod]

Christ did die for sinners, but not all sinners without exception. Im showing that in my posting.

The problem is you are not the Holy Spirit and have no idea who the elect are so your point is moot. Our job is to preach the gospel message and let God do the saving . Salvation is of the Lord not by your discrimination.

 

[brightfame52]

The problem is you are not the Holy Spirit and have no idea who the elect are so your point is moot. Our job is to preach the gospel message and let God do the saving . Salvation is of the Lord not by your discrimination.

How is this relevant ? This thread is about " The myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all without exception" Do you believe Jesus Christ when He died for sins, died for all without exception or only for His Sheep ?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
It seems to me from your answer there, that Jesus being the Lamb of God had nothing in relation with sacrificial lambs offered in OT as sacrifice for sin.

Being a Christian, what is the meaning and significance of Christ’s death on the cross for for you? What do you say did His death accomplished?

I asked in a previous post Tong, if your angle is that if an angry God needing to be appeased....you avoided the question. It appears however from your first statement here, this is the route you prefer to take... is this not correct?

I did not avoid your question. I answered it in post #1863.

To the second part and your question; Jesus’ allowing himself to be killed reveals the heart of God ie, he would rather be killed than kill.

This sort of love draws me like no other. It assures me that God will go to any length to have my company. It dispels fear and gives me certainty. It goes far far beyond a cognitive understanding and embraces what the scripture terms ‘knowing’ God.

Yes. Thank you for telling me your thoughts there.

But what do you learn from the scriptures as to what is the meaning and significance of Christ’s death on the cross? What did His death accomplish?

Tong
R4092

 

[ChristisGod]

How is this relevant ? This thread is about " The myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all without exception" Do you believe Jesus Christ when He died for sins, died for all without exception or only for His Sheep ?

How can we talk about His death without talking about the gospel? That is an oxymoron.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I asked “To whom did Jesus Christ offered Himself as a sacrifice for sin?”

Your answer “He offered himself to humanity.…”

Please explain to us how and why Jesus offered to humanity, Himself as a sacrifice for sin.

What can you say of the following passage in relation to His sacrifice of Himself?

Hebrews 9:14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

The passage, contrary to your position, says that Jesus Christ offered Himself to God.

Jesus’ reality offered himself to God all the way to dying. He never failed....he endured the limitations he was willingly subjected to... he overcame.

Think in terms of his life that he gave as opposed to thinking of his death that he gave (gave in the sense of appeasement)

His death was a result of being hated by the forces that run this world. They hated him because he gave as opposed to took. He willingly serves because the nature of God’s Kingdom is service.....the other has precedence over the self.

<<<Think in terms of his life that he gave as opposed to thinking of his death that he gave (gave in the sense of appeasement)>>>

Why would I think as you say?

I referred you to Hebrews 9:14, which speaks about the blood of Christ, that is, His death, according to the context. Which context you seem to had been avoiding all along as this post suggest.

Can you tell us what those scriptures say to you regarding the blood of Christ?

Did He offer it to humanity or to God, to accept or reject?

Tong
R4093

 

[Tong2020]

How can we talk about His death without talking about the gospel? That is an oxymoron.

Perhaps it would be necessary to go back to the question, what did Jesus accomplish by His death. For it seems that Christians have different knowledge concerning this. Or perhaps, even to the question, what is the gospel?

Tong
R4094

 

[ChristisGod]

Perhaps it would be necessary to go back to the question, what did Jesus accomplished by His death. For it seems that Christians have different knowledge concerning this. Or perhaps, even to the question, what is the gospel?

Tong
R0494

Exactly that was my question for BP as he has yet to define the gospel.

 

[quietthinker]

I did not avoid your question. I answered it in post #1863.


Yes. Thank you for telling me your thoughts there.

But what do you learn from the scriptures as to what is the meaning and significance of Christ’s death on the cross? What did His death accomplish?

Tong
R4092

Re answering my question...you have been intellectually dishonest in this case.

Jesus death accomplishes the revelation of God’s Character in an unprecedented way.

 

[quietthinker]

<<<Think in terms of his life that he gave as opposed to thinking of his death that he gave (gave in the sense of appeasement)>>>

Why would I think as you say?

I referred you to Hebrews 9:14, which speaks about the blood of Christ, that is, His death, according to the context. Which context you seem to had been avoiding all along as this post suggest.

Can you tell us what those scriptures say to you regarding the blood of Christ?

Did He offer it to humanity or to God, to accept or reject?

Tong
R4093

Tong, I am not avoiding what you say I am avoiding.

Is it not correct that you are maneuvering to make a case for the appeasement of an angry God through blood sacrifice?

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
I did not avoid your question. I answered it in post #1863.


Yes. Thank you for telling me your thoughts there.

But what do you learn from the scriptures as to what is the meaning and significance of Christ’s death on the cross? What did His death accomplish?

Re answering my question...you have been intellectually dishonest in this case.

Jesus death accomplishes the revelation of God’s Character in an unprecedented way.

I wasn’t at all intellectually dishonest as you charge there.

I was the one who asked you a question regarding Christ’s death, being a sacrifice. And I have clarified that to you in answer to your question, that my question is related to the OT sacrifices and that spoken about in the book of Hebrews. But you seem to take my question outside of that context. Unless you believe that Christ’s death isn’t at all a sacrifice in difference to what Hebrews 9:14 is saying.

Did you not learn from the scriptures as to what is the meaning and significance of Christ’s death on the cross? And what His death accomplished? Would you like me to think that you did not learn any about that in scriptures?

Tong
R4095

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Think in terms of his life that he gave as opposed to thinking of his death that he gave (gave in the sense of appeasement)>>>

Why would I think as you say?

I referred you to Hebrews 9:14, which speaks about the blood of Christ, that is, His death, according to the context. Which context you seem to had been avoiding all along as this post suggest.

Can you tell us what those scriptures say to you regarding the blood of Christ?

Did He offer it to humanity or to God, to accept or reject?

Tong, I am not avoiding what you say I am avoiding.

Is it not correct that you are maneuvering to make a case for the appeasement of an angry God through blood sacrifice?

No that is not correct to say. I was making reference to Hebrews 9:14, regarding the blood of Christ. I am asking you what those scriptures say to you regarding the blood of Christ.

Well, if you don’t feel like telling me, no problem. They are just there in scriptures that every Bible reading Christian will come across at some point in his reading.

Tong
R4096

 

[brightfame52]

How can we talk about His death without talking about the gospel? That is an oxymoron.

When He died for sinners did He die for all sinners without exception or only some sinners? Is the scripture specific about that ?

 

[ChristisGod]

When He died for sinners did He die for all sinners without exception or only some sinners? Is the scripture specific about that ?

Quote the verse that says the gospel is for some or for all ?

Are all men sinners ? yes or no

 

[brightfame52]

Not for ours only !

1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Not for ours only meaning, not for our sins only, meaning them John was presently writing the epistle to, but for the sins of the whole world, meaning to include those who Christ died for who were believers in the past as the OT Saints Rom 3:25

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

And for all people Christ died for who may not at that present time of his writing have not yet believed, that is for All future Believers, Like when Christ prayed for future believers here Jn 17:20

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Yes, even for unbelievers that He died for, and it was for all nationalities of men: Black, White, Hispanic, Orientals and Indians; But the one thing that makes it [their propitiation] manifest, given with propitiation as an counterpart, is Faith in His Blood. If any have not Faith in His Blood, there is no evidence of He being their propitiation, hence and He did not die for them, For Christ's death makes us Just, and the promise to the Just is this Rom 1:17704

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[brightfame52]

Quote the verse that says the gospel is for some or for all ?

Are all men sinners ? yes or no

You evaded my question, does the scripture teach that Christ died for all sinners without exception, or some sinners ?

Quote the verse that says Christ died for all sinners without exception.

 

[ChristisGod]

You evaded my question, does the scripture teach that Christ died for all sinners without exception, or some sinners ?

Quote the verse that says Christ died for all sinners without exception.

That is your argument to prove with the gospel in the passage. I don't have to prove your assumption or your negative statement. Your questions are smokescreens to support your own personal ideas. Try asking a biblical question sometime instead of your HYPER CALVINST ones.

 

[brightfame52]

That is your argument to prove with the gospel in the passage. I don't have to prove your assumption or your negative statement. Your questions are smokescreens to support your own personal ideas. Try asking a biblical question sometime instead of your HYPER CALVINST ones.

Thats your evasion. Is the scripture clear about for whom Christ died ? Does it anywhere say that He died for all without exception ? This thread is showing that, to say He did is a Myth, lest you show otherwise.

 

[jessiblue]

@brightfame52

You evaded my question, does the scripture teach that Christ died for all sinners without exception, or some sinners ?

Quote the verse that says Christ died for all sinners without exception.

…
If I may, @brightfame, Christ died for the ungodly, not for the righteous.

Romans 5:6: For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost.
-jb

 

[brightfame52]

@brightfame52


…
If I may, @brightfame, Christ died for the ungodly, not for the righteous.

Romans 5:6: For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Jesus came to seek and to save that which was lost.
-jb

Rom 5:6 doesnt say that Christ died for all without exception, but He died for the ungodly. Thats what the elect are by nature, ungodly. Rom 8:33-34 tells us Christ died for the elect

33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.