The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[MatthewG]

Do you believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny too?

How can you even call yourself a Christian and reject one of the most basic truths of scripture?

There is no private interpretation of scripture and your "belief" is of no consequence or worth- what matters is what scripture actually says and means and its incumbent on us to adjust our beliefs to what it says- not the other way around.

Hello sheepdog,

Not hear to argue semantics. You’ll have to question yourself on my beliefs by looking at scripture. Am sharing what scripture does say… and everyone is going to a heavenly realm friend… The good and bad. Some resurrected into a spiritual body made to dwell in the light because of faith, some resurrected unto a condemned spiritual body that is not well equipped to dwell in the light.

One goes into the Heavenly Realm to be with the Lord God Almighty and those who chose to live without faith get a resurrected spiritual body given by God only they are placed outside of the Heavenly Jerusalem.

It is not my fault if people do not rejoice in the great news. It still requires faith to have access to God which comes through the Lord Jesus Christ so it’s not universalism… though many would propose this is.

I still believe God calls out to his creation even after death. But that is my subjective belief, and would encourage a person to test all things by the scriptures to see if what is being said is true.

Jesus death was for all people. Before you and me where ever born Jesus paid for our sins. Lot of people discredit the death being that sufficient and powerful being for all people; and even some suggest it was only for some people.

If that is the case God wouldn’t be the Savior of allllll people, especially those who believe.

Thank you for your response; and hope you have a good night. I did become a little bit passionate when reading what Tong2020 had said to me. So that is why my response sounds the way it does; though it is still the truth; though many people would discredit it.

 

[quietthinker]

You still evading friend !

Your angle bf52 of necessity judges. This judging is intrinsic to the view that God shows favouritism to some and not to others. It reveals a misunderstanding which insults God’s unspeakable gift.... the insult consisting of using the scriptures to superimpose onto God mans M.O.

 

[Tong2020]

Hello Tong,

No matter what you are quoting; it doesn’t stop the fact the everyone benefits from Jesus Christ death. All of their sins have been taken care of, Satan has been defeated; Hell has been done away with, along with Satan and His demons.

Now there was chosen elected people that were part of The bride of Christ that already have been taken away.

In the Bible it does say all knee will bow, all tongues will confess that Jesus is the Lord.

So take your pick. I’m someone who believe God still call people who were resurrected and given their spiritual body and are in the darkness, not everyone agrees with that theology though.

<<<No matter what you are quoting>>>

I am quoting Jesus Christ. He is the truth.

<<<So take your pick. >>>

I picked the teaching of Jesus Christ.

Tong
R4099

 

[MatthewG]

That is fine my friend Tong2020. There is the whole of scripture to consider. You take care my friend. Good night.

My encouragement to anyone would be to read the Gospels; also read the letters, and acts, and revelation. Read as much as you possibly can. Test all things by the scriptures: this is to anyone reading this post.

 

[Tong2020]

Jesus death was for all people. Before you and me where ever born Jesus paid for our sins. Lot of people discredit the death being that sufficient and powerful being for all people; and even some suggest it was only for some people.

If that is the case God wouldn’t be the Savior of allllll people, especially those who believe.

Jesus’ death accomplished many things that benefited all. However, concerning salvation unto eternal life, Christ did not die for all men. This is easily understood in that scriptures is clear in telling us that there will undeniably be men who are not saved unto eternal life and will be cast to the lake of fire, the second death.

Tong
R4100

 

[Tong2020]

That is fine my friend Tong2020. There is the whole of scripture to consider. You take care my friend. Good night.

My encouragement to anyone would be to read the Gospels; also read the letters, and acts, and revelation. Read as much as you possibly can. Test all things by the scriptures: this is to anyone reading this post.

Yes I know. And I am only sharing to you and this board, what Jesus Christ, who is the truth, said concerning those whom He will raise up at the last day, unto eternal life, which He said is the will of the Father who is in heaven.

It is the Holy Spirit who convicts, convince, and converts.

Tong
R4101

 

[LTJMP14]

I never tell anyone Christ died for their sins, neither did the Apostles. I simply tell people who it is Christ died for, His Sheep, and what His death accomplished for them. You should only tell people Christ died for the sins of His People Matt 1:21

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Or His Sheep Jn 10:11,15

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.

Or His Church Eph 5:25-27

25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

That way you tell them the Truth !

Christ died for anyone who repents, believes, and is born again. Not all do, and I understand that those of us that do are the called, but God's grace offer is made to all.

 

[Tong2020]

Your angle bf52 of necessity judges. This judging is intrinsic to the view that God shows favouritism to some and not to others. It reveals a misunderstanding which insults God’s unspeakable gift.... the insult consisting of using the scriptures to superimpose onto God mans M.O.

I disagree.

Jesus Himself, who is the truth, plainly taught:

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.”

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

“He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

Also, one can learn from scriptures, even from Jesus Himself, that there are those who will be cast into the lake of fire, and suffer the second death. That not all are saved. That Christ, with regards the matter of salvation from that, did not die for every human being. That in that regard, He did not pay for the sins of those who will go Hell.

Tong
R4102

 

[Tong2020]

Christ died for anyone who repents, believes, and is born again. Not all do, and I understand that those of us that do are the called, but God's grace offer is made to all.

God’s grace of salvation unto eternal life isn’t an offer, but is given by God to them to whom He willed to give it, according to the counsel of His will.

Jesus said concerning that:

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.”

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

“He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

Tong
R4103

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus’ death accomplished many things that benefited all. However, concerning salvation unto eternal life, Christ did not die for all men. This is easily understood in that scriptures is clear in telling us that there will undeniably be men who are not saved unto eternal life and will be cast to the lake of fire, the second death.

Tong
R4100

Hello Tong2020,

Okay. Though you may disagree with me. Jesus death was for all people. There is more scripture to consider, than what you have quoted.

My suggestion would be that if anything people would have their ‘part’ in the fire. That Fire would be the Eternal Fire of God. They that experience the ‘second death’. To me would be experiencing some type of loss. Not they they are destroyed but they receive some type of loss.

That is why I believe that people who do not have faith are resurrected with a spiritual body that is given by God but it’s lesser than those who had faith. They experience some type of loss.

There one more chapter after all the lake of fire to consider as well; Revelation 22.

Anyway it was nice to chat about this and am done now thank you for your time sir.

 

[brightfame52]

To be the propitiation for Our sins !

1 Jn 4:10

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Now who is John speaking of when He states here, That God first Loved us and SENT His Son to be the propitiation for OUR Sins. Notice the word SENT here. Now lets briefly look at a comment Christ made once before about who He was sent unto. Matt 15:24

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Notice the word sent in both places, 1 Jn 4:10 and Matt 15:24 the greek word is apostellō and means:

I.to order (one) to go to a place appointed

Christ is stating that He was only Sent to Save One Specific People here in Matt 15:24, so therefore it must be that same group of People here 1 Jn 4:10

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

In other words, If those in Matt 15:24 are not the same as those in 1 Jn 4:10, a contradiction arises with what Christ stated and what John wrote.

Now, back to John, is He writing also of the Whole World here 1 Jn 2:2

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Jn 2:2 here is the same us as in 1 Jn 4:10 which is the same as those in Matt 15:24 or again we have a serious contradiction.

Now does the Whole World of 1 Jn 2:2 MEAN everyone without exception ? No, it cannot possible mean that, or Matt 15:24 is contradicted, as well as, at the time of John's writing and Ministry, he has written before of some who were presently under God's Wrath in Unbelief Jn 3:36

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

In which case, Christ could not have been for them, sent by God to be a propitiation for their sins, because if He did, wrath for them would have been already removed and God placated on their behalf , but since its obviously not, then they simply cannot be of that whole World of 1 Jn 2:2. Then what does whole World mean in this regard ?

 

[brightfame52]

Your angle bf52 of necessity judges. This judging is intrinsic to the view that God shows favouritism to some and not to others. It reveals a misunderstanding which insults God’s unspeakable gift.... the insult consisting of using the scriptures to superimpose onto God mans M.O.

You still doing the same thing.

 

[brightfame52]

Christ died for anyone who repents, believes, and is born again. Not all do, and I understand that those of us that do are the called, but God's grace offer is made to all.

Christ died for His People, His Sheep exclusively, which ensures they will be born again, repent and believe the Gospel.

 

[MatthewG]

So what is the point in sharing if Jesus didn’t die for us too, because the whole world in John 3:16 means all of the universe; every human on the face of the earth, past, present, future.

This video was posted last night 08/29/2021.

It’s 8 minutes long.

Choice does play into the part of Salvation. Do you accept it; do you want it? That choice is up the individual.

 

[quietthinker]

You still doing the same thing.

What I’m doing is not encouraging you to waffle on about your limited view of God’s generosity....a generosity you have clearly not yet seen.

I am very familiar with your argument. What you must do to substantiate it is ignore or twist all the scriptures that indicate God went to unimagined lengths to find the lost sheep of the Universe; the inhabitants of our planet.
You want to make out that God is tight fisted and stingy just like the evil one charges him with.

 

[An Apologetic Sheepdog]

Not hear to argue semantics. You’ll have to question yourself on my beliefs by looking at scripture. Am sharing what scripture does say

that is false, no legitimate read of scripture supports your claim of a second chance or universal salvation. (man is appointed to die once then face judgement)

One goes into the Heavenly Realm to be with the Lord God Almighty and those who chose to live without faith get a resurrected spiritual body given by God only they are placed outside of the Heavenly Jerusalem.

You claim ( above) this is what scripture says- where exactly is the scripture(s) that say this?

I still believe God calls out to his creation even after death. But that is my subjective belief, and would encourage a person to test all things by the scriptures to see if what is being said is true.

It has been tested and its false. You contradict yourself by saying on one hand you support scripture yet now you say this is a subject belief then waffle on producing scripture that supports it ( a double mind)

 

[LTJMP14]

So what is the point in sharing if Jesus didn’t die for us too, because the whole world in John 3:16 means all of the universe; every human on the face of the earth, past, present, future.

This video was posted last night 08/29/2021.

It’s 8 minutes long.

Choice does play into the part of Salvation. Do you accept it; do you want it? That choice is up the individual.

Wrong. There's heaven for the saved, and there's hell for the unsaved. Universalism is of Satan and anyone believing in it is saying: "Sin all you want, Jesus will still give you a place in paradise." Deceived.

 

[LTJMP14]

God’s grace of salvation unto eternal life isn’t an offer, but is given by God to them to whom He willed to give it, according to the counsel of His will.

Jesus said concerning that:

“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.”

“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.”

“He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.”

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life.”

Tong
R4103

KEY WORDS OF JESUS: "he who believes in Me"

 

[MatthewG]

Hello you,

Not here to fight.

You may have your own opinions and will love you regardless.

Test the scripture that is all that can be said; if you do not desire to find out if what is being said is true or not that is your own choice.

Ask God to help you to understand, and consider the whole of scripture.

It is known to me that no one can change their mind except the individual themselves and that is a choice so to argue or backbite or anything like or accuse you for accusing me is futile.

Test the scripture; and it is encouraged by me to read your bible and seek for God, ask him to help you.

If you desire to believe what you do and live in that it does not effect me personally friends, you have to make your own choice to see what is being said is true or not and the answers are found in the bible.

Take care and God bless you and your families. May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with you, the love of God, and the fellowship of the holy spirit. May Gods hand be in your life; and your families life. Friends, brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.

Challenge and question everything.

 

[MatthewG]

Also Sheepdog,

Yes, it is believed by me that each individual will be judged at the end of life.

There will be people who believed in Jesus and will go on to be resurrected spiritual body and go into the Heavenly Jerusalem.

There will be people who just do not desire to be with God because of their own choice and they are too given a resurrected spiritual body and will be on the outside of the Heavenly Jerusalem.

That is in accordance with Revelation 22. Though the Gates of the Kingdom never close; to suggest that God stops calling out to those who are out in the darkness may not hold up if God is love, and if all will eventually come to confess Jesus Christ is Lord, in heaven, and earth.

That is my hope as a Christian believer to go and be with God after this life being resurrected given a new spiritual body; and maybe go out there into the darkness to help others. They may not want it though, they stay in that darkness for as long as they desire. Though the 'gates' of the Kingdom never close.

If you disagree that is fine. Will not fight you or poke sticks at you because you do not believe this way. You have to make your own choice in what you are going to believe and my encouragement will always be is check the scripture, and ask God to help you, and do not believe me but check scripture itself.

Thank you all for your time and take care.

(I do not believe in universalism that suggest -> ALL PEOPLE AT END OF LIFE GO DIRECTLY INTO THE KINGDOM OF GOD and there is no outside of the Kingdom.)

I do believe that bloodshed of Christ was for all people and all people benefit from his death universally but not everyone desires to have God in their life and live by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.