The Nature of Jesus Christ

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marks

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No one changes their mind on this. Everyone quotes their own pet scriptures to support their personal view, nothing changes.
If it helps, I doubt there is any real difference in both camps as to the essence of Christ, but simply his title. In my view, the people who then say you cannot be saved unless you title Christ the one true God are on very dangerous ground indeed.

All who call upon the Name of YHWH will be saved. God has given One Name under heaven by which man must be saved. It seems to me that someone answering God's call according to His promise will be saved.

The one who cries out to Jesus, believing He is, an that He rewards those who actually want Him, seek Him, that one Christ will save, I believe.

After that, we want to know Him more.

Much love!
 

stephen64

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All who call upon the Name of YHWH will be saved. God has given One Name under heaven by which man must be saved. It seems to me that someone answering God's call according to His promise will be saved.

The one who cries out to Jesus, believing He is, an that He rewards those who actually want Him, seek Him, that one Christ will save, I believe.

After that, we want to know Him more.

Much love!
Yes, scripture is clear all over the place, you must believe in the name Son of God to be saved
 
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theefaith

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All who call upon the Name of YHWH will be saved. God has given One Name under heaven by which man must be saved. It seems to me that someone answering God's call according to His promise will be saved.

The one who cries out to Jesus, believing He is, an that He rewards those who actually want Him, seek Him, that one Christ will save, I believe.

After that, we want to know Him more.

Much love!

don’t forget what He actually said! Mk 16:16
 

Matthias

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Was their complaint that Jesus called Himself Messiah? I don't remember reading that.

I remember that the Pharisees expressed their concern that they would "lose their nation and their place". So that if Jesus because a populist leader, the Romans would do like they did, put Him down by force.

But I'm asking specifically about Jesus saying He is the Son of God.

John 10:33-39 KJV
33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37) If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38) But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39) Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

Why was it blasphemy for Jesus to say He is the Son of God?

John 19:6-8 KJV
6) When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7) The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
8) When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;

Why did they demand His death because "He made Himself the Son of God"?

Why did they say,

John 10:33 KJV
33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Why was it blasphemy to declare Himself the Son of God?

Much love!

Why did John write his Gospel? It wasn’t to persuade his readers that Jesus is YHWH.
 

Matthias

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If I were we, we would be me.

I feel like we're now talking on that level. Maybe our conversation has run its course.

Much love!

The level is simple.

Jesus himself has a God. God himself doesn’t have a God.

Jesus’ God is the one true God.

The one true God is the God and Father of the man Messiah Jesus.
 

marks

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The God of Abraham is the God of Jesus.

Why did the Jews demand Jesus' death because He said He is the Son of God? Why did they call that blasphemy? Why did they have a problem with that?

Much love!
 

Matthias

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You didn't answer my question. Why not?

Much love!

I’m sick, so I cut to the chase.

John wrote his Gospel to persuade his readers that Jesus is the Messiah. You’re using it for a different purpose.
 

Matthias

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Why did the Jews demand Jesus' death because He said He is the Son of God? Why did they call that blasphemy? Why did they have a problem with that?

Much love!

The Son of God has authority that exceeds theirs. They weren’t willing to bow to his authority. They wanted to be the top of the authority chain. This was a power play.

What is the definition of blasphemy?
 

marks

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The Son of God has authority that exceeds theirs. They weren’t willing to bow to his authority. They wanted to be the top of the authority chain. This was a power play.

What is the definition of blasphemy?
Blasphemy,

Mark 2:5-11 KJV
5) When Jesus saw their faith, he said unto the sick of the palsy, Son, thy sins be forgiven thee.
6) But there were certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,
7) Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only?
8) And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts?
9) Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk?
10) But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,)
11) I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house.

λασφημία
blasphēmia
blas-fay-me'-ah
From G989; vilification (especially against God): - blasphemy, evil speaking, railing.

Vilification of God.

In this case, they believed Jesus to be committing blasphemy as He was insinuating that the Almight God could be standing in from of them a "mere man".

John 10:33 KJV
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Much love!
 

marks

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Why did the Jews demand Jesus' death because He said He is the Son of God? Why did they call that blasphemy? Why did they have a problem with that?

Much love!
I'll answer.

Because they felt that Jesus was "just a man", and that He presented Himself to them as though He is God Himself.

In calling Himself the Son of God, they understood Jesus to be saying He is in fact God, which to them was blasphemy, because they didn't believe it possible.

Much love!
 

Matthias

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I'll answer.

Because they felt that Jesus was "just a man", and that He presented Himself to them as though He is God Himself.

In calling Himself the Son of God, they understood Jesus to be saying He is in fact God, which to them was blasphemy, because they didn't believe it possible.

Much love!

The Messiah is God, figuratively.

Fits with 1st century Jewish culture.

He said God sent him. They didn’t believe him. In their minds, he was lying about God - which is blasphemy.

Just a man. No one special. Not educated like they were. An upstart. A pretender. A wanna be. A nobody.

I’m going back to bed. I’ll try to catch up with you later this afternoon or tonight.
 
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marks

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The Messiah is God, figuratively.

Fits with 1st century Jewish culture.

He said God sent him. They didn’t believe him. In their minds, he was lying about God - which is blasphemy.

Just a man. No one special. Not educated like they were. An upstart. A pretender. A wanna be. A nobody.

I’m going back to bed. I’ll try to catch up with you later this afternoon or tonight.
I'm going to stick with the reason the Jews themselves gave.

Thank you for your answer!

The Messiah is God, figuratively.

"you, a man, make yourself to be God."

Much love!
 
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amigo de christo

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don’t forget what He actually said! Mk 16:16
Yeah , my advice is , IF JESUS said it , DO IT . Its quite simple really .
And i also seem to remember him saying NOT ONLY to be baptized in the name of the Father , Son and Holy ghost,
HE ALSO said to teach them to observe , AKA TO DO , ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL not most , ALLL things i have taught you .
As JESUS SAID , HE who comes to me and DOES NOT my sayings , That man has NO FOUNDATION .
Hearers and DOERS of the word or we are simply DECIEVING ourselves . THUS learn ALL THINGS in that bible
that both JESUS and later the apostles would teach . Omitting NONE OF IT for the sake of the traditions of men .
 
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Marvelloustime

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Yeah , my advice is , IF JESUS said it , DO IT . Its quite simple really .
And i also seem to remember him saying NOT ONLY to be baptized in the name of the Father , Son and Holy ghost,
HE ALSO said to teach them to observe , AKA TO DO , ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL not most , ALLL things i have taught you .
As JESUS SAID , HE who comes to me and DOES NOT my sayings , That man has NO FOUNDATION .
Hearers and DOERS of the word or we are simply DECIEVING ourselves . THUS learn ALL THINGS in that bible
that both JESUS and later the apostles would teach . Omitting NONE OF IT for the sake of the traditions of men .
Shout it out dear brother. Let’s all stay planted in our bibles.
 
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theefaith

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Yeah , my advice is , IF JESUS said it , DO IT . Its quite simple really .
And i also seem to remember him saying NOT ONLY to be baptized in the name of the Father , Son and Holy ghost,
HE ALSO said to teach them to observe , AKA TO DO , ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLL not most , ALLL things i have taught you .
As JESUS SAID , HE who comes to me and DOES NOT my sayings , That man has NO FOUNDATION .
Hearers and DOERS of the word or we are simply DECIEVING ourselves . THUS learn ALL THINGS in that bible
that both JESUS and later the apostles would teach . Omitting NONE OF IT for the sake of the traditions of men .

what things did He command the apostles? Matt 28:20
 

amigo de christo

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what things did He command the apostles? Matt 28:20
Which applies not to a false place . JESUS NEVER said we ought to sit under those who teach and pratice evil .
Ye must learn this quickly my friend . Your church aint the only church that tries to do this either .
I hear many a protestant who has holler much the same , cliaming their church as the path and their words as thus sayeth the LORD .
WHEN IN TRUTH thier teachings OMIT the very one they try and claim they FOLLOW . BUT GO YE and GO QUICKLY and learn this .
 
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