No. (Thanks for bringing him to my attention.)
I know rabbi Jesus. His God is the Father, not the Trinity.
The teaching of the Messiah is greater in my view than the teaching of a 17th century rabbi.
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The Nature of Jesus Christ
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No. (Thanks for bringing him to my attention.)
I know rabbi Jesus. His God is the Father, not the Trinity.
The teaching of the Messiah is greater in my view than the teaching of a 17th century rabbi.
I realize we're not likely to change each other's minds on this, but I'm curious about some things, if that's OK.
When the Pharisees had a problem with Jesus saying He is "the Son of God", why did that bother them so much? Why did that mean He had to be put to death? What as the problem with Jesus calling Himself "the Son of God"?
Much love!
That's kind of a tautology.
I see what you were getting at with that question now. If the Holy Spirit were God, why would we not worship Him? Like that?
Much love!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
And my advice remains the same , YOU JUST KEEP ON READING THAT BIBLE my friend . THE MORE we read the more we learn and grow
by the power of the HOLY GHOST . Stay planted in it and let no man sway you from that book .
The Pharisees didn’t believe a fellow Jew - Jesus of Nazareth - is the Messiah. The Messiah is > than the Pharisees. His teaching is superior to theirs.
Johann
Well-Known Member
You’re coming from trinitarianism and believe the Holy Spirit is a third person who is God.
The Holy Spirit is God’s Spirit; personal, but not another person.
As I said, my God is the Father alone. I’m keeping the focus on Jesus. If his God were the Trinity then I would still be a trinitarian.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
A newbie in another thread brought out this golden nugget. It begs the question of how many times does Jesus have to talk about his God for trinitarians to recognize he is not God? By contrast, the Father NEVER talks about his God.
Revelation 3:12
Contemporary English Version
12 Everyone who wins the victory will be made into a pillar in the temple of my God, and they will stay there forever. I will write on each of them the name of my God and the name of his city. It is the new Jerusalem my God will send down from heaven. I will also write on them my own new name.
Revelation 3:12
Contemporary English Version
12 Everyone who wins the victory will be made into a pillar in the temple of my God, and they will stay there forever. I will write on each of them the name of my God and the name of his city. It is the new Jerusalem my God will send down from heaven. I will also write on them my own new name.
No one changes their mind on this. Everyone quotes their own pet scriptures to support their personal view, nothing changes.
If it helps, I doubt there is any real difference in both camps as to the essence of Christ, but simply his title. In my view, the people who then say you cannot be saved unless you title Christ the one true God are on very dangerous ground indeed.
It was a long time ago, but I changed my mind on this. In my experience, it usually takes years for someone to change their mind, if it happens at all. I don’t think people should change their minds quickly about something as important as this.
I mentioned earlier that most of my reading revolves around trinitarian scholarship. I’m always willing to go back and see if I’ve overlooked something.
When I was still teaching I posted a sign in my classroom. The sign said:
Read widely. Read deeply. Read thoughtfully. Read critically.
I’m no longer a trinitarian but I’ve learned a lot over the years from reading trinitarian (and non-trinitarian) authors.
I was really meaning, no one changes their mind on this subject due to debating it on the internet. I think the important thing, in reading what you wrote is, you are a true christian, and I'm not saying that because you changed your mind on this subject. God bless
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Shall i then take the members of CHRIST and put them with a HARLOT .
Learn ye what that means and do so real fast . FOR one cannot sit at the table of belial and of Christ
One cannot partake of the cup of the whore and of Christ .
One cannot partake of Christ and anti Christ . Folks get IN THOSE BIBLES and learn WHAT JESUS TUAGHT
and the apostels taught .
robert derrick
Well-Known Member
Of course. It was a sign to prove God doesn't need man to accomplish His will on earth:
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
The Lord would provide Himself a sacrifice for sins, by first providing for Himself a body of flesh from a virgin womb: He did both by the eternal Spirit.
Jesus was not born of a virgin to avoid any 'sinful' physical seed of man:
1. Scripture doesn't say so.
2. Scripture does say according to the body, Jesus was made flesh of the seed of David:
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh.
That's the physical seed of David, that is the same as any man's since Adam. It is not the promised seed to Abraham, which is Christ Himself.
All men are of one seed physically and one blood, including Jesus as a man with mortal body in the days of His flesh.
And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation.
Are you suggesting Jesus' body was not made of the seed of David, which was in the flesh of Mary's womb?
Are you suggesting that David's physical seed is not the same as that of any other man?
There's no sin nor righteousness in any physical thing on earth, whether it be a living creature, a tree, a plant, or grass:
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field.
All flesh is grass: mortal. But man in mortal flesh is only as the flower of the field, which fades away in time.
Scripture says that all flesh of living creatures on earth is grass. Not as grass.
Yes there are 7 sacraments
Jn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
2 cor 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
1 Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Was their complaint that Jesus called Himself Messiah? I don't remember reading that.
I remember that the Pharisees expressed their concern that they would "lose their nation and their place". So that if Jesus because a populist leader, the Romans would do like they did, put Him down by force.
But I'm asking specifically about Jesus saying He is the Son of God.
John 10:33-39 KJV
33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
37) If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
38) But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
39) Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,
Why was it blasphemy for Jesus to say He is the Son of God?
John 19:6-8 KJV
6) When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
7) The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
8) When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
Why did they demand His death because "He made Himself the Son of God"?
Why did they say,
John 10:33 KJV
33) The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
Why was it blasphemy to declare Himself the Son of God?
Much love!
If I were we, we would be me.
I feel like we're now talking on that level. Maybe our conversation has run its course.
Much love!
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