The Nature of Jesus Christ

[Wrangler]

I've answered this several times, I hope that's enough.

No, you didn't answer the simple question. That's how you conversate.

 

[Wrangler]

I can hardly believe the circles we're going in. Jesus was separated from His body, physical death.

You are making up your own tradition. Scripture does not qualify that only part of Jesus died. Death does not mean partially dead. It means completely and fully not alive.

By parsing death, you are attempting to parse this basic aspect of reality. Jesus died. God did not. This simple fact eludes you.

 

[Wrangler]

Death is separation.

Yea, separation from life! If you want to suppose an existence void of life, now you are really changing the baseline of what it means to be alive.

Jesus died. God did not die. Jesus was separated (to use your words). God cannot be separated from himself.

 

[Wrangler]

The Godhead is not a "math equation". Just because you post an equation, that does not signify anything about God.

God is indeed a math equation, 1. He is not 3-in-1. 1 = 1 <> 3 <> 3-in-1. You are turning inequality into equality, to suit your doctrine.

Jesus died.

And yet you won't get specific on what that means.

You don't get it! It does matter what it means. It shows inequality as Jesus died and God did not.

 

[APAK]

There you have it.

You've decided what is and is not possible, and you interpret the Bible accordingly, or so it seems.

Question: Do you truly believe that it would be fully and completely impossible for our Creator God to incarnate into a human body?

Much love!

Yes of course not, it is not possible.

Now the Father, as God the Creator, did project his word and spirit of truth, knowledge and understanding via his sacred and Holy spirit, of his character and mind INTO Christ even before he was born. And this process of the Father's deliberate imposition and imprint on his son in word and spirit of power, began to affect him, his human nature and his own mind, words and actions as he matured and grew on this earth. Of course this is not a process of any incarnation at all because Christ maintained his same born human nature although the Father imposed himself on his Son deliberately and incrementally with increased power and authority as he became a man and especially after his baptism.

 

[marks]

Yes of course not, it is not possible.

So then, no matter what the Bible said about the matter, you will not believe outside of what you consider possible?

There's no debate then. You don't consider it possible for God to incarnate into flesh.

"With God, all things are possible". Do you believe that?

Much love!

 

[APAK]

So then, no matter what the Bible said about the matter, you will not believe outside of what you consider possible?

There's no debate then. You don't consider it possible for God to incarnate into flesh.

"With God, all things are possible". Do you believe that?

Much love!

Well I've searched scripture high and low marks and no it's just not there, no incarnation possible I'm afraid,and I'm not going to make it up out of thin....that would be a no no wouldn't you agree?

And the scripture you cited there I hope is not your answer to say incarnation is possible with God.

Matt 19:25-26
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Christ was responding to his disciples concerning salvation marks not the possibility of incarnation or anything else here.

Context cannot be overlooked, Christ was saying HIS FATHER could/would save them.....

 

[Wrangler]

Question: Do you truly believe that it would be fully and completely impossible for our Creator God to incarnate into a human body?

You are so desperate to get a foothold you appeal to mere possibilities translates into undeniable axioms.

It is not possible because God is immortal and flesh is not. Hence, references to forms. My cookie jar is in the form of a bear but it’s nature remains a cookie jar, not changed to a bear. What about this do you not understand?

Moreover, there is no theological significance to God merely appearing in the form of a human and only appearing to die.

 

[marks]

Well I've searched scripture high and low marks and no it's just not there, no incarnation possible I'm afraid,and I'm not going to make it up out of thin....that would be a no no wouldn't you agree?

The Word was with God, and God was the Word . . . And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. Hint: John 1

And the scripture you cited there I hope is not your answer to say incarnation is possible with God.

Matt 19:25-26
25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

Christ was responding to his disciples concerning salvation marks not the possibility of incarnation or anything else here.

Context cannot be overlooked, Christ was saying HIS FATHER could/would save them.....

Jesus gave a blanket declaration that covered that situation also, but was not limited,

With God, all things are possible. Not just This is possible, but the genenal declaration that with God all things are possible. Do you not believe that? But then again, you've already answered, no, God cannot incarnate, that is, take on a human body.

Do you see something inherently sinful in such an act? Is that why you consider it impossible? That God would be wrong to do so? Or that He lacks the power? I wouldn't expect you to say that, but then I wasn't expecting you to declare incarnation impossible for God.

How do you consider when YHWH ate with Abraham and Sarah? Doesn't the fact that He ate with them indicate God presented Himself to them in a human body? Something like that?

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

The Word was with God, and God was the Word . . . And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. Hint: John 1

Are you even aware that the passage does NOT say that God became flesh?

WHAT became flesh, not WHO.

 

[APAK]

The Word was with God, and God was the Word . . . And the Word became flesh, and tabernacled among us. Hint: John 1


Jesus gave a blanket declaration that covered that situation also, but was not limited,

With God, all things are possible. Not just This is possible, but the genenal declaration that with God all things are possible. Do you not believe that? But then again, you've already answered, no, God cannot incarnate, that is, take on a human body.

Do you see something inherently sinful in such an act? Is that why you consider it impossible? That God would be wrong to do so? Or that He lacks the power? I wouldn't expect you to say that, but then I wasn't expecting you to declare incarnation impossible for God.

How do you consider when YHWH ate with Abraham and Sarah? Doesn't the fact that He ate with them indicate God presented Himself to them in a human body? Something like that?

Much love!

marks you remind me of being my sparring partner. I'm enjoying growing in strength and refining my techniques and with increasing endurance at your expense and energy who is only there to present an opposing argument that you know little about or have not shown any improvement in understanding; in this case most scripture you present as articles of truth to your cause. Evidently it is something you must enjoy?

Take your John 1:1 and 14 for example you have presented for the nth time, it is like sticking out your face and getting it knocked again.

Please for the first time can you stop being a sparring partner and become a fighter in what you believe in and explain these verses to me to show your strength, technique and endurance. Show that you really know this scripture that means so much to you. Write more about it than just listing them!

Hint: John spoke and wrote the Greek transliterated term 'logos' of neuter gender not male or female.

 

[marks]

marks you remind me of being my sparring partner

Yeah. You and a couple of others have spent so much time and energy diverting conversations towards your negative opinions and loaded language, to the severe detriment of anything useful or meaningful, so, maybe another time.

[QUOTE="APAK, post: 1310439, member: 7755" marks you remind me of being my sparring partner. I'm enjoying growing in strength and refining my techniques and with increasing endurance at your expense and energy who is only there to present an opposing argument that you know little about or have not shown any improvement in understanding; in this case most scripture you present as articles of truth to your cause. Evidently it is something you must enjoy?

Take your John 1:1 and 14 for example you have presented for the nth time, it is like sticking out your face and getting it knocked again.

Please for the first time can you stop being a sparring partner and become a fighter in what you believe in and explain these verses to me to show your strength, technique and endurance. Show that you really know this scripture that means so much to you. Write more about it than just listing them!

Hint: John spoke and wrote the Greek transliterated term 'logos' of neuter gender not male or female.[/QUOTE

I've bolded the parts of your post I find meaningful. Just so you can see how I look at this. You've acknowledged a passage of Scripture I look at, and you've pointed to the syntax of a word in that passage.

The rest of it is the tapestry of your condescension.

Much love!

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Jesus was certainly a human person, else He would not have a body to offer.

Amen!

It’s not possible that Jesus was a human person in trinitarian theology.

"With God, all things are possible". Do you believe that?

Double AMEN!!

160 Reasons JESUS CHRIST (The Human Son of man) Is Almighty God!!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Matthias]

Death is not cessation of existence, death is separation, from the body, from God.

Using your definition of death,

1. Did Jesus experience death [i.e. was Jesus separated from God]?

2. Did God himself experience death [i.e. was God himself separated from God]?

 

[Johann]

Extra-biblical resources carry no Biblical authority.

Much love!

This is my bone of contention marks, is there ever a time you would say 'No, I don't have the answer'

Not interested in how the Jews and ancient rabbi's believed re the Messiah?

I have two sources that helps me a lot, Robertson's Word studies and Vincent's Word studies plus my own studies on the morphology of the Greek and Hebrew study.
That's all I have since dictionaries and study material is scarce here and here people are HUNGRY for the scriptures and every study help they can find.

Not being contentious with you, just saying what is on my heart.

Sinless Perfectionism Is Heresy: (7 Biblical Reasons Why)

This is what I noticed re your posts, correct me if I'm wrong
J.

 

[Johann]

Using your definition of death,

1. Did Jesus experience death [i.e. was Jesus separated from God]?

2. Did God himself experience death [i.e. was God himself separated from God]?

Absolutely


Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom_5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom_6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom_6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom_6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom_7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom_7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

1Co_15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Co_15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

2Co_1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

2Co_2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

2Co_3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co_4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
J.

 

[Johann]

they do if they are reflected in scriptures such as acts 1:8 and 2:42!

So what extra biblical resources would you recommend based in the scripture quotations?
J.

 

[Johann]

And there in lies the problem. When you go outside the bible then you are adding to scripture: That is called the traditions of man. Which I believe is SIN.
And in fact you go outside the Bibe and you can then use what ever you want to choose to make your point.
Let's take it from the top:
John 1.1 in the beginning. Rev 1.1. Jesus' own words state that rev was given by him to John. Rev 3.14 Jesus again stated that he was the first creation of God. Again in Isaiah 45.11 Thus saith the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker.
And BTW there are more.

John 1.1 And the word was with God. See ref above

And the word was God. See mark 28.18

Question. Why do we as the creation tell God what he can do and what he is .etc

Why can't God have a son and that son be heir to his throne

Why did Jesus lie to us in john 20.17.
Please look at the history of man. Jesus was killed by the religious power in charge. Fast forward 300yrs

Arius was branded the first heretic because of rev 3.14. Then for the next 1300yrs Christians that wanted to read the Bible in there own language were killed and burned at the stake etc.

Then look at the history of the Canon of the book of revelations. There has never been any issue with rev 1.1 or rev 3.14.

So history teaches that Jesus spoke truth and Christ is deity and John 1.1 is still true

Absolutely
Num_23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
J.

 

[Johann]

Absolutely


Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom_5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom_6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom_6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom_6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom_7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom_7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

1Co_15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Co_15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

2Co_1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

2Co_2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

2Co_3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co_4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
J.

Number 1 not 2.

 

[Matthias]

Absolutely


Rom_5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Rom_5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

Rom_5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Rom_6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Rom_6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom_6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom_6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

Rom_6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom_7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Rom_7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Rom_8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

1Co_15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

1Co_15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

2Co_1:9 But we had the sentence of death in ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God which raiseth the dead:

2Co_2:16 To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things?

2Co_3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

2Co_4:11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
J.

Thanks.

I haven’t met many people who have said they believe God separated from himself. Those who did were trinitarians who believe their deity is three selfs, not one self. Some of them said God died; some of them said that God didn’t die.