The Nature of Jesus Christ

[marks]

There is a natural death of the body , ... of which only the body dies , but the SOUL GOES TO THE GLORIOUS LORD WHO has saved it .

Amen! Death is not a complete end of existence. It's separation from the body.

Much love!

 

[marks]

How about you explain how 100% + 100% = 100%?

You've posted this a couple of times, but it doesn't mean anything to me. 1x1x1=1. How do You explain that? See what I mean?

Much love!

 

[TLHKAJ]

JESUS.... Savior.
Emmanuel... God with us. We can plainly understand by this that Jesus was/is God.
Conceived by the Holy Spirit (who is the Spirit of God). And no, this was not a sexual encounter. God is Creator. He can create a body in the womb of a virgin! And He did exactly that.

And the fact that God is Creator, and the manner in which He created all things can be seen in Genesis.

Genesis 1:1-3
[1]In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
[2]And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
[3]And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

God the Father spoke.... His Word was sent, or proceeded out from Him ...and the Spirit of God moved.

John 1:1-5
[1]In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2]The same was in the beginning with God.
[3]All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
[4]In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
[5]And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Goodness, how much more plain can the scriptures be?

And furthermore.....

Colossians 1:12-17
[12]Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[15]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[16]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[17]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

And lest we should mistake who is being referred to as Creator.....

Colossians 1:18-20
[18]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
[19]For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
[20]And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

This is plainly and clearly referring to Jesus Christ, the head of the body and the church... the one who took upon Himself the sins of the world and reconciled us to God.

 

[amigo de christo]

What is the Biblical meaning of death? How can you discuss life and death if you cannot define these words according to how the Bible uses them?

I realize that this may seem a scary proposition, given the FACT that "death is cessation of existence" will not fit. But truth is what sets us free.

Look at every place "death", "dead", those words. Learn the Greek words used. Look at every place they are used, and find the meaning that is true in every place, and then you can know what God means when He speaks of death.

It's not just the humanist perception of death . . . Oh look, not moving, that person is "gone". That doesn't work, and I suspect we all realize that, which is why no one wants to engage this question, and so many posts seem intent on just impugning me. Forget about me. Deal with the question.

Much love!

AND JESUS SPOKE OF THIS . FEAR not them that can ONLY KILL the body but after that have nothing they can do .
YE FEAR HE WHO has power that after that death can cast a soul into the fires of hell .
ITS REAL . MARK that place is real . IT IS THE SECOND death . And it awaits all who denied JESUS CHRIST .
THERE is but one way to never die , THAT IS IN JESUS CHRIST ALONE . For men can only kill the body
but GOD can destroy both body and soul in HELL FIRE . The lambs fear not the natural death
for to be absent from this body only means to be present with the glorious LORD who has saved us .
And we shall be immortal , having new bodies . BUT HELL FIRE IS REAL and let no man tell you otherwise .
JESUS speaks of it more than once , AND BEING in HELL he was in AGONY . ITS REAL my friend .
Notice that both the rich man and lazarous physically died , ONE was HOME but the other was groaning being heavily tormented in that flame .
ITS REAL . ETERNAL LIFE is real , SO TOO is eternal damanation . Heaven is real and so too is the lake of fire .
CHOOSE YE JESUS CHRIST O WORLD FOR WHY WILL YE DIE . CHOOSE YE LIFE and LIFE ETERNAL which is FOUND ONLY and i mean ONLY
IN JESUS CHRIST . STAND ON that gospel . For it is the only gospel that can save . I TAKE THAT TO MY GRAVE .
JESUS ALONE is the ONLY NAME WHEREBY ONE MAY BE SAVED . THOUGH its not popular in this all inclusive age
, YET ITS THE ONLY TRUTH THERE IS and its EVERY BIT as revelant to this generation as was in the first generation .
STAND ON IT . AND PROCLIAM JESUS AS CHRIST , MESSIAH , ONLY SAVOIR . And let the LORD be praised no matter what the cost will be .

 

[marks]

How about you explain how death <> end of life?

Death is separation.

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

Some trinitarians tell us that God himself died, but trinitarianism doesn’t.

“If God dies, everything dies with Him. Obviously, then, God could not have perished on the cross.

Some say, ‘It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.’ That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being. Death is something that would involve a change in one’s being.

We should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross.The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ. Somehow people tend to think that this lessens the dignity or the value of the substitutionary act, as if we were somehow implicitly denying the deity of Christ. God forbid. It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.”

(R.C. Sproul, “Did God Die on the Cross?”)

Did God Die on the Cross?

Everyone, not just trinitarians, “should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross,” but not everyone will in the present age.

 

[marks]

The Bible is not a lexicon. Neither am I. Consult your favorite lexicon to brush up on word meanings.

We all know what death means. Only a trinitarian dualist supposes antonyms are some form of synonym.

Again, your double standards emerge.

<death = some form of life> is insufficient for you ... for reasons that you do not reveal, you do not 'clarify.' That's kind of odd.

You have not posted a definition of death. Only claimed, "we all know". But I find that untrue, myself. "We" don't all seem to know.

So what if you were to succinctly state what you believe Death to be - cessation of existence, or whatever you think it is. Something succinct, clear. That we can put to the test. I've done it. You can too!

Give us a definition that we can put into the Bible, and see if it holds true where the word is used.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Please tell me what you think it means when you respond to the questions I asked you about Jesus and God.

Define your question.

Or continue to dance.

Up to you.

You know what I'm getting at here, don't you? Death is not cessation of existence, death is separation, from the body, from God.

Was Jesus separated from His body? Absolutely! Did Jesus cease to exist? No way!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Your question has an implied premise that I reject;

Implied premise? The only implied premise is that your definition has to work.

You are avoiding this like the plague!

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

Define your question.

Or continue to dance.

Up to you.

You know what I'm getting at here, don't you? Death is not cessation of existence, death is separation, from the body, from God.

Was Jesus separated from His body? Absolutely! Did Jesus cease to exist? No way!

Much love!

Define my question? All I asked you to do was address the questions I asked you about Jesus and God using whatever your definition of death is.

 

[Wrangler]

You've posted this a couple of times, but it doesn't mean anything to me. 1x1x1=1. How do You explain that? See what I mean?

Friend, I asked about addition and you are replying with multiplication. The proverbial apples and oranges. That is how you conversate.

To give you the benefit of any possible doubt, let me transcribe the symbolic logic into terms of your theology. 'Jesus is fully man and fully god' cannot hold up to scrutiny as it contradicts what 'fully' means. Worse, it contradicts Scripture.

A is A. The Law of Identity. Things are what they are.

Man is man.

God is God.

P1. Man is mortal.
P2. God is immortal.
C. Man is NOT God.

P1. Jesus is a Man.
P2. Man is not God.
C. Jesus is NOT God.

 

[marks]

Friend, the Bible is not a lexicon.

And again . . . The Bible tells us how it uses the words it uses, if you are willing to see it.

You can interpret the Bible entirely from itself. Word studies are wonderful, amazing, and can show you many beautiful things. Don't eschew the learning.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Define my question? All I asked you to do was address the questions I asked you about Jesus and God using whatever your definition of death is. Until you do that I won’t be able to understand what you believe.

I've been posting what I believe over and over, so maybe you've maybe you've missed that . . .

[QUOTE="marks, post: 1310165, member: 7985" Define your question.

Or continue to dance.

Up to you.

You know what I'm getting at here, don't you? Death is not cessation of existence, death is separation, from the body, from God.

Was Jesus separated from His body? Absolutely! Did Jesus cease to exist? No way!

Much love![/QUOTE

 

[Wrangler]

You are avoiding this like the plague!

I'm avoiding your word game like the plague! Jesus died. That is how we know he is NOT God.

If you have any questions about what death means, consult your favorite lexicon. Otherwise, you are putting all your eggs in the basket of word game. You said the definition of death meaning the end of life is 'shallow.' Changes N-O-T-H-I-N-G.

Introducing this idea of "Biblical meaning" of words is just another varient of word games.

 

[marks]

Friend, I asked about addition and you are replying with multiplication. The proverbial apples and oranges. That is how you conversate.

The point I'm trying to make . . . The Godhead is not a "math equation". Just because you post an equation, that does not signify anything about God.

And then you again turn this against me . . . you cannot seem to help yourself apparently.

It's getting old. Are you hoping I'll just go away?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Jesus died.

And yet you won't get specific on what that means.

Only to say, "we all know", as if that were an answer.

This entire discussion seems to me to turn on what you mean when you say "died". You say, we all know what that means. Except there are two very different points of view on that, with some holding to the one, and some holding to the other.

I've stated my position over and over, while others on this thread absolutely refuse to be so clear.

Gee, I wonder why that is!

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

I've been posting what I believe over and over, so maybe you've maybe you've missed that . . .

What I’ve apparently missed is your answer to the questions:

1. Do you believe that Jesus died? Yes? No?

2. Do you believe that God himself died? Yes? No?

 

[Wrangler]

Death is not cessation of existence, death is separation, from the body, from God.

So, by your own definition, God cannot die, separated from himself. Scripture tells us Jesus died. You realize you are not resolving this contradiction, right?

Was Jesus separated from His body? Absolutely! Did Jesus cease to exist? No way!

Again, side stepping the basic fact that Scripture tells us Jesus died.

 

[marks]

OK, enough for now.

Much love!

 

[Matthias]

I've answered this several times, I hope that's enough.

Much love!

I’m sorry. It’s still not clear to me from what you’ve said if you believe Jesus died and God himself died. I think a simple yes or no answer to each question would make it clearer to me.