The necessity of the Trinity

[101G]

I have a question, any can answer, if "Jesus is one spirit of God and the most cherished of the Father". how in the world he, Jesus could G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') his ownself?
1. to make empty.
2. (figuratively) to abase, neutralize, falsify.
[from G2756]
KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation, void), be in vain

now this we need to hear. suggestive reading, Philippians 2:7

PICJAG.

 

[SovereignGrace]

To empty Himself means He did not exercise His attributes at all times. It does not mean He literally cast them aside while on earth, but chose not to exercise them all the time.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Before we continue onward in this discussion, can we solidify in agreement that-
- A person is not saved by passing a theology test.
- Neither is a person not saved by flunking a theology test.
- Salvation instead comes from accepting Jesus Christ, the Son of God, as your Savior and King. Even if a person doesn't correctly academically understand Him.

I never said we’re saved by knowledge, if that’s the case, we’d all die lost. But if ppl say they are saved for YEARS, DECADES, and have a deformed view of God, I have my concerns.

 

[101G]

To empty Himself means He did not exercise His attributes at all times. It does not mean He literally cast them aside while on earth, but chose not to exercise them all the time.

ok, who else have these attributes?

PICJAG.

 

[SovereignGrace]

@SovereignGrace
Well this spouting out again of an ages old hypothesis called the trinity created out of ignorance, some performed in innocence, written down from their thoughts and even altering scripture down the centuries, does not make it the words of God and in accordance with his will.

I would really spend lots of time in prayer and in the Father’s written word before I keep having the urge to present this marquee of division within the body and outside the body of Christ.

If you can understand why you are saved by the will of God, you can surely know that the Trinity idea is not the will of God.

//

Scripture never speaks to a God the Son, ever. I wonder why?

Scripture always speaks of God as the Father only. I wonder why?

God you know is the Father of Jesus, his Son, and who always walks in the will of his Father and never himself. I wonder why?

Review some explicit scripture right for the word or expression of God our Father, and never the Son, that says the Father is not only older and wiser than his Son, he is the source of the Son’s existence (both implicitly and explicitly).


John 5:18, 6:27, 6:45-46, 8:41-42, 8:54, 10:36, John 13:3, 14:1 (implicit, although obvious who Jesus is speaking about), 17:1, 20:17

Acts 2:33

Romans 1:7, 15:6

1 Corinthians 1:3, 8:6, 1 Cor 15:24

2 Corinthians 1:2-3, 11:31

Galatians 1:1, 1:3-4, 4:6

Ephesians 1:2-3, 1:17, 4:6, 5:20, 6:23

Philippians 1:2, 2:11, 4:20

Colossians 1:2-3, 3:17

1 Thes 1:1, 1:3, 3:11, 3:13

2 Thes 1:1-2, 2:16

1 Timothy 1:2

2 Timothy 1:2

Titus 1:4

Philemon 1:3

James 1:2

1 Peter 1:2-3

2 Peter 1:17

1 John 3:1 (slightly implicit although obvious what is meant)

2 John 1:3

2 John 1:9

Jude 1:1

Rev 1:6


There is only conclusion, that God is the Father and the Father is the only God, and provides his own spirit to his Son and those that believe him by God’s will and not our own and not by our own works of belief.


I wonder why the Father is the only true God, and there is no other beside him?

Bless you,

APAK

The Deity of Jesus Christ

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Back in Genesis 1 we read In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.

Everything made was made by God. The Word in John 1 is the Christ, God the Son. And it says the Word, made ”and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.”

The Christ is very God as well.

 

[101G]

The Deity of Jesus Christ

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him], and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.[/U]

Back in Genesis 1 we read In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.[/b]

Everything made was made by God. The Word in John 1 is the Christ, God the Son. And it says the Word, made ”and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.”

The Christ is very God as well.

but is he the SAME Person? yes or No.

PICJAG.

 

[Enoch111]

KJV: make (of none effect, of no reputation...

This is the proper understanding of that word kenosis. Christ set aside His divine and royal prerogatives and humbled Himself to walk this earth as Jesus of Nazareth. He was born a King but did not exercise any kingly privileges on earth. He even went so far a to ask John the Baptist to baptize Himself (when that was totally unnecessary from our perspective).

But Jesus was the God-Man from His birth, and "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory". Christ displayed His glory in every word and deed, but particularly at the transfiguration, the crucifixion, and the resurrection.

One cannot deny the Trinity without denying the Deity of Christ. And that is why Judaism, Islam, and all the heretical cults deny both.

 

[SovereignGrace]

but is he the SAME Person? yes or No.

PICJAG.

No, He isn’t the same Person. They are the same Being, but three distinct Persons.

 

[101G]

No, He isn’t the same Person. They are the same Being, but three distinct Persons.

ok, let's see if this is true or not, scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

 

[101G]

Isaiah 44:24 eliminates any second, or third person.

PICJAG.

 

[SovereignGrace]

ok, let's see if this is true or not, scripture, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

Everything was made by Him, the Christ. Remember, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”[Genesis 1:27]

 

[101G]

Everything was made by Him, the Christ. Remember, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”[Genesis 1:27]

let's see if that's true. question, CAN JESUS LIE? NO. listen, Matthew 19:4 "And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female". how many is he?

again, can Jesus lie? ... no.

PICJAG.

 

[APAK]

I have a question, the Spirit of God? is not the Spirt God? yes or no

PICJAG.

You will have to rephrase your query 101G. I cannot/ not sure or understand what you are asking...thanks.. are you asking if the Spirit of God is the Spirit called God??..

 

[Dave L]

Isaiah 44:24 eliminates any second, or third person.

PICJAG.

Jesus Christ (YAHWEH) is the name of the Holy Trinity. That is why the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ when told to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

“and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they were all drinking from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:4)

“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9)

 

[101G]

You will have to rephrase your query 101G. I cannot/ not sure or understand what you are asking...thanks.. are you asking if the Spirit of God is the Spirit called God??..

ok, you said that the Spirit of God is God... right, ... right. now according to Philippians 2:7 who is it that G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') himself there?.

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

Jesus Christ (YAHWEH) is the name of the Holy Trinity. That is why the apostles baptized in the name of Jesus Christ when told to baptize in the name (singular) of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

“and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they were all drinking from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:4)

“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9)

ERROR, Jesus the Chirst is only one Person.

was it not (YHWH) Jesus the Christ who made all things? yes, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

alone means no other PERSON. "by myself", means one PERSON. so your doctrine lie when it says the son and the Father are separate persons. the bible disagree with your doctrine.

PICJAG.

 

[SovereignGrace]

ERROR, Jesus the Chirst is only one Person.

was it not (YHWH) Jesus the Christ who made all things? yes, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself".

alone means no other PERSON. "by myself", means one PERSON. so your doctrine lie when it says the son and the Father are separate persons. the bible disagree with your doctrine.

PICJAG.

Modalism here.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I never said we’re saved by knowledge, if that’s the case, we’d all die lost. But if ppl say they are saved for YEARS, DECADES, and have a deformed view of God, I have my concerns.

As long as it can be stated and agreed upon that having a correct academic understanding of God is not a prereq for salvation.

 

[101G]

Modalism here.

error, "Diversirty", John 1:3 is plain, the Son, he made all things. but the LORD all caps in Isaiah 44:24 said he made all things "BY HIMSELF", "ALONE".

now don't argue with me just reconcicle John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. it's the SAME PERSON.

PICJAG.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@101G , I'm sure you've explained it earlier in this thread, but would you mind just giving me a quick recap on what your view is and how it compares/contrasts with the Athanasian view of the Trinity?
(No hate sauce here, I promise)

*bump* for @101G