The New World Order is not welcome by many!

[Ronald David Bruno]

Mid-trib preaching is the same thing; anything that preaches Jesus coming to rapture His Church prior to the "great tribulation" is about a Pre-trib Rapture theory.

No it is not. The obvious clue would be in the descriptive title, Pre-Trib. This view states that the rapture precedes the beginning of the Great Tribulation. They believe there are no major catastrophic events (as described in the seals, trumpets and bowls) that come before the rapture.
You may be wrong, not sure anymore.

 

[Davy]

No it is not. The obvious clue woukd in the descriptive title, Pre-Trib.

No, the obvious clue is that Mid-trib ALSO preaches a false rapture PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation". That because the 'mid' point they preach represent the MIDDLE of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27. And that mid point is when the coming false Christ is to end Jerusalem's daily sacrifices (that will have been started in the first half of the "one week"), and he will then place the "abomination that maketh desolate" in the temple, and demand all to bow to it.

The "great tribulation" begins... at that MID point when that false Christ does that. This is what Jesus showed in His Olivet discourse. The "great tribulation" is NOT... the whole 7 years "one week" period. It is only the latter half of the "one week", a period of 1260 days.

Man's Pre-tribulational Rapture theory preaches that Jesus is going to come to rapture His Church PRIOR to the "great tribulation"; but Lord Jesus did not say that in His Olivet discourse. Instead, He said His coming to gather His Church will be AFTER... the tribulation of those days, meaning after the "great tribulation" He warned about.

So whether you believe on a Pre-trib Rapture, or a Mid-trib Rapture, it is still... a false belief on a rapture PRIOR to the "great tribulation".

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

No, the obvious clue is that Mid-trib ALSO preaches a false rapture PRIOR to the time of "great tribulation". That because the 'mid' point they preach represent the MIDDLE of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27. And that mid point is when the coming false Christ is to end Jerusalem's daily sacrifices (that will have been started in the first half of the "one week"), and he will then place the "abomination that maketh desolate" in the temple, and demand all to bow to it.

I do not have a view that the rapture occurs prior to the Great Tribulation. The Mid-Trib view is also called Pre-Wrath view. When does the wrath come? At the Seventh Trumpet (last), when the Seven Bowls of Wrath are released. So for me, the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls are all within a 3 1/2 year period called the Great Tribulation. MY VIEW IS NOT FROM ANY MID-TRIB BOOK. I studied it for twenty years and came to my conclusions that fell in the middle. I did agree with the book, E-Quake, by Jack Hayford, who put a lot of Revelation in perspective. But I believe the rapture happens at the sound of the SEVENTH TRUMPET. Hence we have to go through much tribulation. The period suffered by the bowls of wrath may only be 40 days, towards the end, nevertheless, it is in the middle of that time frame. So please stop posting what you think I believe!!!

 

[Davy]

I do not have a view that the rapture occurs prior to the Great Tribulation. The Mid-Trib view is also called Pre-Wrath view. When does the wrath come? At the Seventh Trumpet (last), when the Seven Bowls of Wrath are released.

Those men you heed simply came up with that "Pre-Wrath" label, especially since they falsely teach it means being raptured PRIOR to the "great tribulation". Here is where Jesus taught the "great tribulation" would start...

Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Even per Daniel 7:21 about the coming false one being given to make war with the saints, that is what that beast of Revelation 13:4-8 also is to do, and will have power for 42 months, the same time the Gentiles of Revelation 11:1-2 are given to tread the holy city (Jerusalem), which is the same timing of 1260 days God's two witnesses are given to prophesy against the beast in Jerusalem. That... is the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27, which is equal to 1260 days, or a time, times, and half a time. That is the time of "great tribulation" Lord Jesus forewarned about in His Olivet discourse above. It's start He marked by that coming false Christ placing that "abomination of desolation" in a new temple in Jerusalem. That is the MID-TRIB timing, or what those men you follow call the "Pre-Wrath" timing, and is NOT when Jesus comes to rapture His Church.

Those men are lying to you.

 

[Abigail]

As many of the Jews believe. But so do many Jews also believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a seditionist rebel come to destroy their government, so they crucified Him as a criminal.

I think that obfuscates my observation.

 

[Ziggy]

Russia and China line up against U.S. in "no limits" partnership

Russia and China line up against U.S. in "no limits" partnership

The agreement marked the most detailed and assertive statement of Russian and Chinese resolve to work together – and against the United States – to build a new international order based on their own interpretations of human rights and democracy.


This could get interesting...
just sayin
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

 

[Davy]

Russia and China line up against U.S. in "no limits" partnership

Russia and China line up against U.S. in "no limits" partnership

The agreement marked the most detailed and assertive statement of Russian and Chinese resolve to work together – and against the United States – to build a new international order based on their own interpretations of human rights and democracy.


This could get interesting...
just sayin
Hugs

Golitsyn, an ex-KGB Soviet colonel who defected to the U.S. back in the 1960's, wrote in his book New Lies For Old (1984), that Communist Russia and Communist China have always worked together against the West. He said when one would play the 'give me economic aid' card, the other one would be playing the Communist expansion card; this he called the 'Scissors Strategy', each one symbolically representing one arm of a pair of scissors. He said in the final 3rd phase of their long-range strategy, that Russia and China would close the symbolic 'scissors' upon the West.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Those men you heed simply came up with that "Pre-Wrath" label, especially since they falsely teach it means being raptured PRIOR to the "great tribulation". Here is where Jesus taught the "great tribulation" would start...

Matt 24:15-21
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
KJV

Even per Daniel 7:21 about the coming false one being given to make war with the saints, that is what that beast of Revelation 13:4-8 also is to do, and will have power for 42 months, the same time the Gentiles of Revelation 11:1-2 are given to tread the holy city (Jerusalem), which is the same timing of 1260 days God's two witnesses are given to prophesy against the beast in Jerusalem. That... is the latter half of Daniel's symbolic "one week" of Daniel 9:27, which is equal to 1260 days, or a time, times, and half a time. That is the time of "great tribulation" Lord Jesus forewarned about in His Olivet discourse above. It's start He marked by that coming false Christ placing that "abomination of desolation" in a new temple in Jerusalem. That is the MID-TRIB timing, or what those men you follow call the "Pre-Wrath" timing, and is NOT when Jesus comes to rapture His Church.

Those men are lying to you.

The rapture IMHO happens at the 7th Trumpet. If this is the last trumpet, then the Pre-Tribs and Post-Tribs are wrong. As I have stated, many things happen at this time: the nations of the world become Christ's, the Temple in heaven is opened, dead in Christ are resurrected (that automatically points to and coincides with our resurrection), rewards are received. Although the key event is not mentionwd along qith these things which puts a doubt there.
I am not an adherent to the 70th week gap theory.
But we are way off topic. There are many unresolved threads filled with arguments in this topic. Go ahead a spout your views there. Do you have an opinion if the NWO, the hoax perpetrated against mankind filled with lies, forced mandates and deadly vaccines? Did you take the jab?

 

[Ziggy]

Golitsyn, an ex-KGB Soviet colonel who defected to the U.S. back in the 1960's, wrote in his book New Lies For Old (1984), that Communist Russia and Communist China have always worked together against the West. He said when one would play the 'give me economic aid' card, the other one would be playing the Communist expansion card; this he called the 'Scissors Strategy', each one symbolically representing one arm of a pair of scissors. He said in the final 3rd phase of their long-range strategy, that Russia and China would close the symbolic 'scissors' upon the West.

But will it work?

 

[Davy]

The rapture IMHO happens at the 7th Trumpet. If this is the last trumpet, then the Pre-Tribs and Post-Tribs arw wrong.

Apostle Paul's "last trump" is... the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11. That makes the Pre-tribs wrong, but NOT the Post-tribs. Jesus comes to gather His 'faithful' Church on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. That's what the actual written Scripture events in Revelation shows.

As I have stated, many things happen at this time: the natuins if the world become Christ's, the Temple in heaven is opened, dead in Christ are resurrected (that automatically points to and coincides with our resurrection), rewards are received. I am not an adherent to the 70th week gap theory.

Yet the Revelation 11:1-2 verses are showing that gap of Daniel's final "one week" with the 1260 days that God's two witnesses prophesy in Jerusalem at the end against the beast. And they do that within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing. Then you know what happens on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd final Woe, Jesus' coming and gathering of His elect, all the kingdoms of this world become His and The Father's, which means that is when Jesus starts His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

So, you gonna' say you don't believe the gap between the 69th and 70th week because? I think it's because now that you've learned that man's Pre-Wrath position is actually in the middle of Daniel's "one week", and thus immediately PRIOR to the "great tribulation", and when the false messiah will place the abomination that makes desolate, you'd rather keep men's tradition and disregard God's Word on it. That's not a very smart thing to do.

We all have friends that might be going to a different Church down the road, but we don't have to sacrifice our soul just to keep their friendship. If we stay in God's Word as written and try to get them to do the same, and if they refuse to heed it, then all we can do is pray that God will give them understanding, and then move on.

 

[Davy]

But will it work?

Could be what they're wanting to do now. However, the false messiah has got to appear in Jerusalem first before the battle of Armageddon happens on the last day. Most likely then, we are still in a time when they want to create a lot of chaos just prior to the fake peace and safety that false messiah will bring for the whole world of the deceived.

 

[Truth7t7]

Apostle Paul's "last trump" is... the 7th Trumpet of Revelation 11. That makes the Pre-tribs wrong, but NOT the Post-tribs. Jesus comes to gather His 'faithful' Church on the 6th Seal, 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. That's what the actual written Scripture events in Revelation shows.




Yet the Revelation 11:1-2 verses are showing that gap of Daniel's final "one week" with the 1260 days that God's two witnesses prophesy in Jerusalem at the end against the beast. And they do that within the 6th Trumpet - 2nd Woe timing. Then you know what happens on the 7th Trumpet - 3rd final Woe, Jesus' coming and gathering of His elect, all the kingdoms of this world become His and The Father's, which means that is when Jesus starts His "thousand years" reign of Revelation 20.

So, you gonna' say you don't believe the gap between the 69th and 70th week because? I think it's because now that you've learned that man's Pre-Wrath position is actually in the middle of Daniel's "one week", and thus immediately PRIOR to the "great tribulation", and when the false messiah will place the abomination that makes desolate, you'd rather keep men's tradition and disregard God's Word on it. That's not a very smart thing to do.

We all have friends that might be going to a different Church down the road, but we don't have to sacrifice our soul just to keep their friendship. If we stay in God's Word as written and try to get them to do the same, and if they refuse to heed it, then all we can do is pray that God will give them understanding, and then move on.

Daniel speaks of 70 literal future weeks, that are 490 consecutive days without a gap, this 70 week clock starts with a future command to build Jerusalem

 

[Truth7t7]

Could be what they're wanting to do now. However, the false messiah has got to appear in Jerusalem first before the battle of Armageddon happens on the last day. Most likely then, we are still in a time when they want to create a lot of chaos just prior to the fake peace and safety that false messiah will bring for the whole world of the deceived.

The point of deception will be in the False Prophet performing miracles before the beast and world, this will be used to deceive the world into worship of the image, and receiving the mark

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So, you gonna' say you don't believe the gap between the 69th and 70th week because? I think it's because now that you've learned that man's Pre-Wrath position is actually in the middle of Daniel's "one week", and thus immediately PRIOR to the "great tribulation", and when the false messiah will place the abomination that makes desolate, you'd rather keep men's tradition and disregard God's Word on it. That's not a very smart thing to do.

You keep making false assumptions on what I believe. Please stop. I believe the 70 weeks of Daniel were given as a prophecy that dates and describes Jesus' First Coming only and had nothing to do with the Great Tribulation. I could give you many reasons why, but it will be a waste of time and is off topic.

 

[Ziggy]

Could be what they're wanting to do now. However, the false messiah has got to appear in Jerusalem first before the battle of Armageddon happens on the last day. Most likely then, we are still in a time when they want to create a lot of chaos just prior to the fake peace and safety that false messiah will bring for the whole world of the deceived.

False messiah...
Have you seen Israel lately with all these boosters. Brought to you by Mr. Science himself, Dr. Fauci.
Only those who don't believe will be deceived, the rest of us will get our heads cut off.. censored, persocuted, shamed...
You see what their doing now? Oh, all the mandates are over, we can breathe again...
Fake peace and safety..
Lot of info coming out about this jab...
looks like the future could get pretty bleak..
Have you seen this?

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=437399278111704

Hugs

 

[Enoch111]

I believe the 70 weeks of Daniel were given as a prophecy that dates and describes Jesus' First Coming only and had nothing to do with the Great Tribulation.

If Daniel's 70 weeks have been fulfilled then we should all be living on the New Earth with total and everlasting righteousness and peace (Dan 9:24). Since the opposite is the case, that idea has no validity.

 

[Ziggy]

If Daniel's 70 weeks have been fulfilled then we should all be living on the New Earth with total and everlasting righteousness and peace (Dan 9:24). Since the opposite is the case, that idea has no validity.

Literally or figuritively?

You know, the world has gone completely mad, and here I sit, peacefully.
My whole perspective on life changed the day I was born again. Not into this world's perspective, but the Lord's.
And I am forever clothed in His Righteousness because I believe.

Maybe it's just a matter of perspective, and where your treasure is..

The world is going to do what the world is going to do.
But we are not of the world any more.
Come out of her and be ye seperate..

There is always two perspectives, an earthy one and a spiritual one.
I have a tendency to lean towards spiritual, even though I watch the world around me go insane.
I don't have to go insane with it.

Much Love
HUGS

 

[Davy]

You keep making false assumptions on what I believe. Please stop. I believe the 70 weeks of Daniel were given as a prophecy that dates and describes Jesus' First Coming only and had nothing to do with the Great Tribulation. I could give you many reasons why, but it will be a waste of time and is off topic.

You plainly said you did NOT believe in the idea of the 70th week gap. That's what I was going on. And in case you did not know, to not believe that final "one week" (70th week) is still future and for the very end of this world, is to default to men's theory that Jesus fulfilled it, which of course is false, because it involves the placing of the abomination of desolation that He warned about in His Olivet discourse! So why not read your Bible for yourself and check your teachers out, because you certainly are showing you really don't know what God's Word reads as written?

(for those not familiar, that means the gap of time between the time when Jesus was "cut off" on His cross almost 2,000 years ago, and the fulfillment of the final "one week" of Dan.9:27 which has not happened yet today.)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

If Daniel's 70 weeks have been fulfilled then we should all be living on the New Earth with total and everlasting righteousness and peace (Dan 9:24). Since the opposite is the case, that idea has no validity.

The simple logic would be if God told angel to give Daniel a specific prophecy concerning Jesus' First Coming, then that is precisely what it was. It wasn't, "Oh, look what Israel has done, I'll have to change this last week here, put it on pause for 2000 years and start it up again. Things went exactly as planned - ni surprises, no changes.
God doesn't change His mind. It was 483 years, Jesus started His ministry, then in the middle of that last seven years it was over. We have plenty of prophecies concerning the end times, we don't need to add to ones that were fulfilled. Daniel 12 was future, maybe the last few verses of 11.