The One Baptism

[Marymog]

Even better- Scripture SHOWS that only adults were baptized....

Not true Wrangler. Entire families were baptized. Your THEORY is that there were no infants or children in those families, but your THEORY does not trump Scripture.

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Charlie24]

Hey Charlie..... there are Protestant denominations that adhere to Scripture and teach that it is a "cleansing process"......So what is your point?

Since the beginning of Christianity, us Christians have taught that baptism IS a "cleansing process". It is salvific (1 Peter 3:21), washes away sin (Acts 22:16) and all are to be baptized (Matthew 28:19). Shortly after the beginning of the Protestant Revolution the Revolutionaries started a new tradition with their heretical teaching that denies that it is a 'cleansing process" and they deny baptism to some.

Sooooo when you deny that "sins are actually washed away in water baptism" you deny Scripture what Scripture literally says...... it washes away sin (Acts 22:16).

Mary

No, I'm not denying Scripture. Sin is washed by the Blood, not water.

That is not a literal washing by blood, but a spiritual washing.

It is the baptism into Christ, baptized into His death, spiritually baptized into His shed blood at His death.

Water baptism is the symbol of this spiritual baptism.

Yes, there are denominations who see water baptism in like manner as Catholics.

But they too do not understand the spiritual baptism that Paul taught and I have shown in this thread.

 

[amigo de christo]

Ummmm.....I already stated that Scripture is silent on baptizing of infants. It doesn't say to do it OR not to it. You and your men have read INTO Scripture NOT to baptize infants! I havn't! Sooooo what's your point?

Scripture is silent on what age a person can accept Jesus and become his disciple. So what age is that Wrangler?

When they make the DECISION to do so .

 

[Marymog]

No, I'm not denying Scripture. Sin is washed by the Blood, not water.

That is not a literal washing by blood, but a spiritual washing.

It is the baptism into Christ, baptized into His death, spiritually baptized into His shed blood at His death.

Water baptism is the symbol of this spiritual baptism.

Yes, there are denominations who see water baptism in like manner as Catholics.

But they too do not understand the spiritual baptism that Paul taught and I have shown in this thread.

Yup, you accept the part of Scripture that says sin is washed by blood. You reject Scripture that says sin is washed by water: Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, I accept ALL of Scripture. Why don't you?

Who is "THEY"? Only YOU and anyone that agrees with you understands Paul?

 

[Marymog]

When they make the DECISION to do so .

Ok Amigo. Lets put your theory to the test. Can a 5-year-old make that decision?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

Never heed the CC . Follow CHRIST . Let all that has breath praise and thank the glorious Lord .

Hey, amigo, that's what your fellow Protestants have been doing for the last 500 years. You don't heed The Church. You think you are following Christ's commandments but you all still disagree with each other on what it takes to be saved. What gives? You are reading from the same bible sowhy all the disagreement? It seems your pie in the sky theory isn't working Amigo!!

 

[Charlie24]

Yup, you accept the part of Scripture that says sin is washed by blood. You reject Scripture that says sin is washed by water: Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, I accept ALL of Scripture. Why don't you?

Who is "THEY"? Only YOU and anyone that agrees with you understands Paul?

My faith is only in what Christ did on that Cross that made it possible for me to be reconciled to God.

And on the third day what He did to guarantee that reconciliation.

I have no faith in water, that water had nothing to do with my redemption.

I feel sorry for those who will face Christ with their faith in that water.

 

[Marymog]

My faith is only in what Christ did on that Cross that made it possible for me to be reconciled to God.

And on the third day what He did to guarantee that reconciliation.

I have no faith in water, that water had nothing to do with my redemption.

I feel sorry for those who will face Christ with their faith in that water.

Thanks Charlie.

As long as Moses hands were lifted, the Israelites were winning the battle. Was the faith in Moses hands?

Did the faith in Jesus clothes heal the woman in Matthew 9?

Was their faith in the spit that healed people?

Is it the faith in the oil that makes us well (James 5:14)?

I feel sorry for those that LACK faith! 2 Corinthians 5:7

 

[Wrangler]

Not true Wrangler. Entire families were baptized. Your THEORY is that there were no infants or children in those families, but your THEORY does not trump Scripture.

Keeping it real....Mary

And your theory is to COMPLETELY DISREGARD that our lord was an adult when he was baptized along with everyone else specifically identified in Scripture to speculate that ‘family’ could possibly include children and infants.

Talk about going as far away from following Jesus AND get away with it?!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Before we explain the One Baptism, let's familiarize with the word "Baptism" as found throughout the Scripture.

First, one must realize that the word "Baptism" is not always referring to water! A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:11 from John the Baptist.

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

John makes a clear distinction of water baptism, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Second, there are two words used for "Baptism" in the Greek. they are, "baptizo" and "baptizma," the first is used as a verb, the second is used as a noun. A clear example of this is found in Matt. 3:5-7,

"5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,

6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?"

In vs. 6, in the bold is "baptizo" the verb, the act of being baptized.

In vs. 7, in the bold is "baptisma" is the noun, the baptism as a thing.

The word "Baptism" is used in Scripture as including the "spiritual baptism" and the "water baptism." There is no reference to separate these baptisms. The only distinction is the use of a verb or a noun. Do you understand this?

It is imperative that you understand the only way to discern between the spiritual and water baptisms found in Scripture is by the context of the Scripture!

Here lies the entire problem of the word "Baptism" as we read it in Scripture! Simply put, some are not making that distinction between the spiritual and water baptisms.

This is what I intend to explore, but I can't in one post, as you can see! So what I will do is give you time to let this sink in, (for the sake of the dreaded long posts) and then come back tomorrow and resume this long road with many intersections!

Good post!

Teh one baptism is the Baptism in the Spirit. for it is by this baptism that we become members of the body of Christ (saved)

Water baptism is merely a public declaration of the inward reality that has already taken place!

 

[marks]

Thanks Charlie.

As long as Moses hands were lifted, the Israelites were winning the battle. Was the faith in Moses hands?

Did the faith in Jesus clothes heal the woman in Matthew 9?

Was their faith in the spit that healed people?

Is it the faith in the oil that makes us well (James 5:14)?

I feel sorry for those that LACK faith! 2 Corinthians 5:7

These are not what bring us justification. Joining Jesus in His death and burial are all that does that.

Apples and oranges.

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

Thanks Charlie.

As long as Moses hands were lifted, the Israelites were winning the battle. Was the faith in Moses hands?

Did the faith in Jesus clothes heal the woman in Matthew 9?

Was their faith in the spit that healed people?

Is it the faith in the oil that makes us well (James 5:14)?

I feel sorry for those that LACK faith! 2 Corinthians 5:7

OK, Marymog!

The legal mind will be a legal mind. Only God can open the Grace to us that we might see it!

 

[Marymog]

OK, Marymog!

The legal mind will be a legal mind. Only God can open the Grace to us that we might see it!

You are missing the point Charlie. There are DOZENS of times in Scripture where God uses visible signs of an invisible Grace.

You stated, "that water had nothing to do with my redemption". You are correct, the water on its own had nothing to do with your redemption. I suspect you took many baths in water and it didn't redeem you.

The point is we are to do what He and the Apostles told us to do (Matthew 28:19, Acts 22:16 etc). If we don't do what He tells us to do, will we receive Grace OR redemption Charlie?

Maybe your friend @amigo de christo can help you out on answering that question.

 

[Marymog]

These are not what bring us justification. Joining Jesus in His death and burial are all that does that.

Apples and oranges.

Much love!

I never said those things bring justification sooooooo I guess there is nothing to debate here.

 

[Charlie24]

You are missing the point Charlie. There are DOZENS of times in Scripture where God uses visible signs of an invisible Grace.

You stated, "that water had nothing to do with my redemption". You are correct, the water on its own had nothing to do with your redemption. I suspect you took many baths in water and it didn't redeem you.

The point is we are to do what He and the Apostles told us to do (Matthew 28:19, Acts 22:16 etc). If we don't do what He tells us to do, will we receive Grace OR redemption Charlie?

Maybe your friend @amigo de christo can help you out on answering that question.

If we do what He says for the right reason! If we do it for the wrong reason, guess what?

Grace is made void! Salvation is by Grace alone, period. There is no Grace in water baptism.

Water baptism is obedience in confessing the Godhead, what They did through your faith.

 

[Marymog]

And your theory is to COMPLETELY DISREGARD that our lord was an adult when he was baptized along with everyone else specifically identified in Scripture to speculate that ‘family’ could possibly include children and infants.

Talk about going as far away from following Jesus AND get away with it?!

Lol....well, first off, I never "completely disregarded" that He was an adult when he was water baptized. The FACT is in post #326 I stated this: "Jesus was baptized as an adult". I look forward to a retraction of your statement


Second off.....He was a child when he was "baptized" via circumcision (covenant with God) into the Jewish faith. That is why Paul equated circumcision to baptism. Baptism, in water, for Christians is the new covenant with God. I thought we had been over this bible lesson before.

Third off.....NT Scripture mentions THOUSANDS being added to the Christian faith via baptism in just a couple of events. We know there were thousands more that Scripture doesn't mention. If you honestly believe what your men have taught you, that there were no children in those thousands, then believe your men. Christian historians AND logic would say your men are wrong.

Keeping it real....Mary

 

[Marymog]

If we do what He says for the right reason! If we do it for the wrong reason, guess what?

Grace is made void! Salvation is by Grace alone, period. There is no Grace in water baptism.

Water baptism is obedience in confessing the Godhead, what they did through your faith.

You seem to be saying two different things here Charlie. You state that salvation is by grace alone. You then go on to say that water baptism is something that we do through our faith, and it is obedience in confessing the Godhead. If we are not obedient to Him and confess Him.....will we be saved?

What about Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9, 2:6, James 2:24?

 

[Charlie24]

You seem to be saying two different things here Charlie. You state that salvation is by grace alone. You then go on to say that water baptism is something that we do through our faith, and it is obedience in confessing the Godhead. If we are not obedient to Him and confess Him.....will we be saved?

What about Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9, 2:6, James 2:24?

Let me show you something, Marymog.

Those under the Law of Moses rejected Christ when He came. They chose not to believe He was the Christ. They chose to keep the Law, in which Christ told them "did not Moses give you the Law, yet none of you have kept it."

They were trying to be obedient, while Christ was trying to show them they were not able to gain salvation by their works of the Law.

Man cannot keep any Law, whether the Law of Moses or any other Law man may make for himself. Water baptism is a manmade Law that must be obeyed by them in order to be saved. But the Scripture tells us plainly we are saved by Grace, not of works or Law keeping. So what happens when man mixes his works of his own making with the Grace of God for salvation?

Romans 4:14
“For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:”

Making water baptism necessary for salvation is adding to Grace. You have voided the Grace of God by mixing in the works of water baptism, thereby making it a Law to be saved. What does Paul further say about this?

Rom. 11:5-6
"Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work."

Here again Paul tells us that works cancel out Grace. Do you see that being obedient in something for salvation other than God's Grace alone is canceling out the Grace? Do you realize what that means? It means Grace is taken away, there is no possibility of being saved!

This is what you are doing Marymog! You are trying the be obedient in the wrong way! The way that cancels the possibility of being born-again! You are using water baptism in the wrong format to your own destruction!

 

[marks]

I never said those things bring justification sooooooo I guess there is nothing to debate here.

Weren't you talking about washing away sins?

Not to worry.

Much love!

 

[amigo de christo]

You are missing the point Charlie. There are DOZENS of times in Scripture where God uses visible signs of an invisible Grace.

You stated, "that water had nothing to do with my redemption". You are correct, the water on its own had nothing to do with your redemption. I suspect you took many baths in water and it didn't redeem you.

The point is we are to do what He and the Apostles told us to do (Matthew 28:19, Acts 22:16 etc). If we don't do what He tells us to do, will we receive Grace OR redemption Charlie?

Maybe your friend @amigo de christo can help you out on answering that question.

If JESUS said DO we do . Peter made sure to have cornelioius water baptized , EVEN after They had been baptized by the HOLY GHOST
and had spoke with tongues . IF THEY DID WE DO .
And if peter never sat on a throne having folks kiss his ring , THEN WHY DO the so called popes .
AS i said IF THEY DID we DO , IF JESUS said TO DO WE DO . And if HE said not to DO WE DO NOT DO .
SO why do many call these self exalted men , MOST HOLY FATHER , OR MOST HOLY REVERAND .
SEE , I KNOW we should be water baptized , i also KNOW we ought NOT TO DO what those in THE CC DO ALSO .
Cant pick and choose . WE EITHER FOLLOW JESUS or we dont . SO while i do agree we ought to be water baptized
i must warn you again , FLEE THE CC and never look back .