The only question that matters

[tomwebster]

(ffbruce;63802)
Let me clarify for you, since you seem to simply believe what you want to believe, and claim people say what you want to believe they are saying.I am not asking half-questions. I have repeatedly asked simple, point-blank questions. The problem is that they're questions you don't want to answer.
I thought I just got through asking if there were more questions. So what are the questions we/I haven't answered?
You anti-church folks are making church-bashing blanket statements. And you are using immature, and inflammatory rhetoric such as "teaching lies of Satan."I have repeatedly challenged all of you to specify what these "lies of Satan" actually are. Yet - surprise surprise - you cannot name what these "lies of Satan" actually are.
The primary lie that has been mentioned so far on this topic is the Rapture lie taught by many Evangelical churches. And, the "any-moment Doctrine" taught by many Evangelical churches. (Refer to MY earlier post for Scripture references, etc refuting these false doctrines. Another false doctrine is the "once-saved, always-saved" doctrine held by many Evangelical churches. The Catholic Church has there own false doctrines. I don't think I need to list those but will if you insist.(my experience has been primarily with Evangelical type churches, I would need to spend more time than I want to spend pointing out other religious groups)
So stop with the immature, inflammatory rhetoric. It is childish, divisive and anti-Scriptural.
So stop with the immature, inflammatory rhetoric. It is childish, divisive and anti-Scriptural.

 

[ffbruce]

Ahhhh... the "Rapture lie".I think you should be humble enough to correctly label it as the "Rapture lie according to me."You are choosing division over a non-essential. Nobody is going to hell because they do not agree with your view, or my view, of the rapture. So why make it a point of division? Why call it a "lie of Satan"? Now... for the record, I am not a Dispensational Premillenialist. But come on, there have been brilliant Biblical scholars who have, for the past 2,000 years, been in disagreement about exact end-times scenarios. What makes us so presumptuous to think that we've got it figured out? Or figured out to the point that we can label others as liars, because they don't agree with our view?Regarding "once saved always saved", that is too easily broad-brushed. The term does NOT mean the same thing to all people. Period. There are those to take it to mean that we don't need to worry about going to hell if we died, having somehow forgotten to ask forgiveness for that "one last sin." There are others who believe it means that you can do anything, after being saved, and it won't affect your eternal dwelling. Then there are people who fall everywhere between those two extremes. So exactly what, regarding once saved always saved, is a false lie?Honestly, everything I've seen in this thread leads me to be reaffirmed in what I originally saw - and that is that the anti-church people are really people who can't get along with other Christians.

 

[Jordan]

(ffbruce;63813)
Ahhhh... the "Rapture lie".I think you should be humble enough to correctly label it as the "Rapture lie according to me."You are choosing division over a non-essential. Nobody is going to hell because they do not agree with your view, or my view, of the rapture. So why make it a point of division? Why call it a "lie of Satan"? Now... for the record, I am not a Dispensational Premillenialist. But come on, there have been brilliant Biblical scholars who have, for the past 2,000 years, been in disagreement about exact end-times scenarios. What makes us so presumptuous to think that we've got it figured out? Or figured out to the point that we can label others as liars, because they don't agree with our view?Regarding "once saved always saved", that is too easily broad-brushed. The term does NOT mean the same thing to all people. Period. There are those to take it to mean that we don't need to worry about going to hell if we died, having somehow forgotten to ask forgiveness for that "one last sin." There are others who believe it means that you can do anything, after being saved, and it won't affect your eternal dwelling. Then there are people who fall everywhere between those two extremes. So exactly what, regarding once saved always saved, is a false lie?Honestly, everything I've seen in this thread leads me to be reaffirmed in what I originally saw - and that is that the anti-church people are really people who can't get along with other Christians.
Rapture believers believe that they are going to be taken away (fly away) before Satan comes back, and that contradicts Ezekiel 13:20, Matthew 24:29-30, II Thessalonians 2:3-4 just to name a few.Am I anti-church? No! Do I want to look for another church? No! Is there an assembly other than going to church? Yes! Do I condemn people going to church? No! Do I worry about people that may be lost because SOME churches preaches lies? Yes! Can you lose salvation? Yes!

 

[ffbruce]

(Jordan;63814)
Rapture believers believe that they are going to be taken away (fly away) before Satan comes back, and that contradicts Ezekiel 13:20, Matthew 24:29-30, II Thessalonians 2:3-4 just to name a few.Am I anti-church? No! Do I want to look for another church? No! Is there an assembly other than going to church? Yes! Do I condemn people going to church? No! Do I worry about people that may be lost because SOME churches preaches lies? Yes! Can you lose salvation? Yes!
So YOUR view/interpretation of the rapture is the only correct one? Do you believe that people are going to spend eternity in hell because they do not share your view of the rapture?And it's interesting that you now claim you are NOT anti-church, because everything you've posted in this thread - up to this point - has evidenced otherwise.By the way, you might want to recheck your Scripture references. None of them say what you're claiming they say. In addition, you seem to have missed the most obvious Scripture that would buttress your position (Matthew 13:24ff).

 

[Jordan]

(ffbruce;63815)
(Jordan;63814)
Rapture believers believe that they are going to be taken away (fly away) before Satan comes back, and that contradicts Ezekiel 13:20, Matthew 24:29-30, II Thessalonians 2:3-4 just to name a few.Am I anti-church? No! Do I want to look for another church? No! Is there an assembly other than going to church? Yes! Do I condemn people going to church? No! Do I worry about people that may be lost because SOME churches preaches lies? Yes! Can you lose salvation? Yes!
So YOUR view/interpretation of the rapture is the only correct one?And it's interesting that you now claim you are NOT anti-church, because everything you've posted in this thread - up to this point - has evidenced otherwise.What matter's to me is I take God's Words over men. I take God's Words over men anyday. Nothing else matters to me anyway.Go ahead and have the desire to pervert my words and situation like you always have been in this thread and continue to do so. You know nothing.I'm done with fools like you.

 

[ffbruce]

(Jordan;63816)
What matter's to me is I take God's Words over men. I take God's Words over men anyday. Nothing else matters to me anyway.Go ahead and have the desire to pervert my words and situation like you always have been in this thread and continue to do so. You know nothing.I'm done with fools like you.
I'm a fool because I actually know Scripture, and have repeatedly proven you wrong?This post is perfect evidence of why you cannot get along in any church. When you're pressed, and your screwed up interpretation of Scripture is exposed, you fly off on a rant. The problem does not lie with the churches, but with you. So thank you for adding further credibility to what I've been saying all along.Now... IF you were actually part of a church family, you would have had these off-base ideas of yours challenged long ago. And you would have had the opportunity to be led into the truth by people who actually know Scripture. But alas, you are choosing to exile yourself. And it is to your own demise.

 

[Jordan]

(ffbruce;63817)
(Jordan;63816)
What matter's to me is I take God's Words over men. I take God's Words over men anyday. Nothing else matters to me anyway.Go ahead and have the desire to pervert my words and situation like you always have been in this thread and continue to do so. You know nothing.I'm done with fools like you.
I'm a fool because I actually know Scripture, and have repeatedly proven you wrong?This post is perfect evidence of why you cannot get along in any church. When you're pressed, and your screwed up interpretation of Scripture is exposed, you fly off on a rant. The problem does not lie with the churches, but with you. So thank you for adding further credibility to what I've been saying all along.Now... IF you were actually part of a church family, you would have had these off-base ideas of yours challenged long ago. And you would have had the opportunity to be led into the truth by people who actually know Scripture. But alas, you are choosing to exile yourself. And it is to your own demise.This is a perfect example in post of a person who is very judgmental, when you have no idea of the situation I had.So I figured, you go and to pervert my situation.

 

[ffbruce]

(Jordan;63818)
This is a perfect example of a person who is very judgemental, when you have no idea of the situation I had.So I figured, you go and to pervert my situation.
I'm not perverting anything. I'm showing you where you are incorrect Scripturally.Remember, YOU are the church-basher. YOU are one of the people who is claiming that churches are teaching the "lies of Satan" and the "words of men" instead of the Bible. I'm simply the one who has called you out on it. In turn, you've failed to rise to the occasion. Instead, you've resorted to calling me a fool (you might want to read Matthew 5:22, by the way).THIS is a PERFECT example of why you desperately NEED to be in a local church!

 

[tomwebster]

(ffbruce;63810)
.Originally Posted by tomwebster OK, we have one point of agreement.That appears to be so, yes.
Good, one down.
So, are you saying a small home Bible study counts or doesn't count? I believe it does.Do you do what the believers in Acts 2:42-47 did?
Act 2:43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. Act 2:44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common; Act 2:45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Act 2:46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. We have not sold all of our stuff. We still own our own homes, etc. I don't own an Accord, our group wouldn't fit in one

Do you have elders, who lead spiritually?
Πρεσβύτερος, (presbuteros)Comparative of πρέσβυς presbus (elderly); older; as noun, a senior; specifically an Israelite Sanhedrist (also figuratively, member of the celestial council) or Christian “presbyter”: - elder (-est), old.Yes, most of our group qualifies for this.
Do you celebrate communion?
Yes
And are you saying that an internet assembly/gathering does or doesn't count? I believe it would.An internet forum is a church family? I think not! Everything here shows that, if it is indeed a sort of church family, it is a very dysfunctional church family.
ἐπισυναγωγή (episunagōgē)From G1996; a complete collection; specifically a Christian meeting (for worship): - assembling (gathering) together.Will need to disagree on this one. Everything an assemble (ἐπισυναγωγή) does we can do here, except get into an Accord.
So we, the staff of this site are being divisive and you the members/guests that are disagreeing are not the divisive ones?My original comment was a DIRECT response to a member who CLEARLY had gone into a couple churches LOOKING FOR THINGS TO CRITICIZE AND CONDEMN. Now... If that is the spirit of the moderators and staff here - specifically, looking for things about churches to criticize, and looking for reasons to divide - then yes, you are being divisive and are flagrantly disobeying what Paul taught in Ephesians 4.
I believe, if I remember correctly

Paul told at least one church to kick someone out because they were disrupting the group. I think we are perfectly correct in staying away from churches that do not teach God's Word.
So, maybe we are getting closer. ??That could be. Just don't tell anybody!
I won't

 

[ffbruce]

Those mentioned in Acts 2:42-47 didn't sell their homes and live communally, otherwise they would not have been able to continue meeting in their homes.Paul did not instruct a church to kick somebody out because they disagreed, but because of immorality (1st Corinthians 5). And no, again, an internet forum HARDLY qualifies as a church assembly. That's just not going to fly.

 

[Christina]

You have called us all names I see you deleted one of your little rants gone on on enough There is only one here being childish, immature only one who is being judgemental only one who gets his questions answered and still says he hasnt only one that refuses to hear Gods words perhaps we have hit to close to home. This thread is about to be closed your refusal to admitt your questions have all been addressed is growing old.This thread is going no where. God judges all by their hearts/ through repentance by his Grace. He says he comes in the Book ....where 2 or more gather together in his name where ever that may be you are in church/worship... God does not judge by a building you attend just because you call it church... For those of us that love our church's..great for those of us that gather in other places and formats... great ... your Father is judging the sincerity of your heart your love for him and his truth in his Word...not your building or lack of it.

 

[tomwebster]

(ffbruce;63821)
Those mentioned in Acts 2:42-47 didn't sell their homes and live communally, otherwise they would not have been able to continue meeting in their homes.Paul did not instruct a church to kick somebody out because they disagreed, but because of immorality (1st Corinthians 5). And no, again, an internet forum HARDLY qualifies as a church assembly. That's just not going to fly.
Well since you admit they meet in their homes a small group must be OK! I am in my home right now, Christina is in her home, Jordan is in his home, swamp is in his home and we are all assembled here on the internet. What a wonderful place to involve a large group is Christ's children.I have served communion (The Lord's Supper) on different forums like this before and it works great, everyone just needs to assemble their own elements. We could even take an offering if that would make you feel better. (You can respond to me by PM if you want)