The only question that matters

[bigape]

Hi The only question that matters, is “Are you saved”.This question, is important, because it will determine where you will spend eternity;The first thing that you must understand, is that "you are a sinner" : Now before you get mad, let me explain, that I am a sinner also; The Bible says in Romans 3:23 etc., that we are all sinners, in need of forgiveness. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" (Romans 3:23) Until you face this fact, you can't go any further. All that, "being a sinner" means, is that some time in your life, you have sinned! We must be honest with ourselves about this, or we will die and go to Hell.Next, you must understand, that "God knows, that you are a sinner": And as a result, you have already been judged as guilty before Him. The Bible says in Romans 6:23 etc., that sinners, will have to face eternal death, if they don't get their sins forgiven:You must be motivated to be saved(God won't save you, unless you really want to be saved). This brings us to our next Scripture:"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." (Romans 6:23)The "Death" being talked about here, is Eternal death in a lake of fire; This is pretty serious business. Rather than debating, weather or not God is right, for sending unbelievers to hell, you aught to first make sure that you aren't gong there. Hell is real, and after you get saved and start studying the Bible and going to Church, you will quickly learn that God is right, in sending people there.Also notice, that the second line in this verse, gives us a clue, about the true way of salvation, "but the gift of God is eternal life": God has set things up, so that the only way to get our sins forgiven and be saved, is to accept it, as "a gift": That is, we can't work our way to heaven, by doing good things: We must receive Salvation, as a gift!Now, you are ready, for the good news: There is one fact about the meaning of life, that makes all the difference: This fact, makes Christianity different, from every other religion on earth: And that is the fact, that our Savior died in our place, so that we wouldn't have to. The Bible says, in Romans 5:8, that God, demonstrated his love for us, by sending His Son, to die for us: "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Romans 5:8) This verse is from the Bible; and that means that every word of it, is important.This word "commendeth", simply means "Demonstrated"; But the really good part about this verse, is where it says, "while we were yet sinners". This means, that in order to get saved, we can't be helping God to save us; We must be sinners, in need of His Salvation! Until you realize that your are a sinner, and need God's Salvation, you can not be saved.One more important point about salvation, is that our Savior Jesus Christ, not only died for us on the cross, but was buried and spent three days in hell, and then rose from the grave, to prove that He was God: "And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:" (1 Corinthians 15:4) This is important, because it reminds us, that our Savior conquered death, and that by Him, we will also gain a victory over death. This is the eternal life, that is promised to every one that gets saved.The last thing that I have to say to you is......if right now, you realize that you are a sinner: and you believe that God knows about it, and has judged you guilty: and you also believe that God loved you enough, to send His only Son to earth, to die on the cross for you, and then to rise again, three days later: Than you are ready to get saved, right now!The Bible says, in Romans 10:13, that real salvation, is as simple as, asking Jesus to save you:"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13)If right now, you are convinced in your heart, that you are a sinner, and that you need to get saved, then you are ready for salvation, at this very moment!You don't have to wait until Sunday, you can get saved right now, by asking Jesus to save you. He promised in the Bible(John 6:37), that He will never say no, to anyone!So right now, you can get saved, by simply talking to Jesus in prayer and asking Him to save you:"Dear Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I believe that you died and rose again, to save me; please save me now, and help me to live for you!" Amen-That's it!-Note: The words in this prayer, aren’t important; What is important, is that you “ask Jesus to save you”!If you understood this message, and believed the Bible truth that is contained in it, and asked Jesus to save you, than you are saved, and I will see you in heaven, one of these days! And from now on, you will be praying to your Heavenly Father, in Jesus’ name.P.S. If you have gotten saved, you need to find a Bible believing Church, and join it by water baptism; So you can learn of all the other wonderful truth's, that the Bible has to offer!

 

[Jordan]

(bigape;63630)
...P.S. If you have gotten saved, you need to find a Bible believing Church, and join it by water baptism; So you can learn of all the other wonderful truth's, that the Bible has to offer!
I am saved, and I hate going to church. I fellowship here. And no we don't need to be water baptized. It is only symbolized to be born in a womb of a woman. (mother) We only need to be baptized of the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 3:11, Ephesians 4:5)

 

[tomwebster]

(bigape;63630)
.... you need to find a Bible believing Church, and join it by water baptism; So you can learn of all the other wonderful truth's, that the Bible has to offer!
Unfortunately, very, very few churches teach the Word of God, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Most teach the tradition of men which makes void the Word of God.

 

[bigape]

Hi JordanI was great to hear that you are saved, but very disturbing to hear you say, that you “hate going to Church”.Perhaps you are going to the wrong Church.-------------------------------------------------- Jesus said.......
John 13:35“By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.”
A “Christian” Church, is where you will find other Believers, and if your saved, you will love them.-------------------------------------------------- Also you said.......“And no we don't need to be water baptized.”Well lets see what Jesus said, was the reason He was baptized in water........
Matthew 3:13-15V.13 ¶ Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. V.14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? V.15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer [it to be so] now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Jesus said, that He was baptized, because it was the right thing to do.“to fulfil all righteousness”-------------------------------------------------- Baptism does not get us saved nor add to our salvation, but it is something we do in obedience.

 

[bigape]

Hi tomwebsterYou said........
“Unfortunately, very, very few churches teach the Word of God”
Amen to thatBut praise the Lord, mine does.-------------------------------------------------- But regardless of this situation, we NEED to keep searching, until we find one, because they are essential to a healthy Spiritual life. All of us need, to regularly be exposed, to the preaching and teaching of God’s Word.And the Church is the only Biblical way, to fulfill the Lord’s 3 main instructions to his followersBaptism), (The Lord’s Supper) & (Tithing)-------------------------------------------------- So please, don’t give up, in your search for a Bible believing Church.By the way, I attend a “Independent Fundamental Baptist Church”, where the Bible is expositorily preached and taught.

 

[ffbruce]

(Jordan;63631)
I am saved, and I hate going to church. I fellowship here. And no we don't need to be water baptized. It is only symbolized to be born in a womb of a woman. (mother) We only need to be baptized of the Holy Spirit. (Matthew 3:11, Ephesians 4:5)
You've got a lot of self-justification going on there, while ignoring both Acts 2:38 and Hebrews 10:25.(tomwebster;63632)
Unfortunately, very, very few churches teach the Word of God, chapter by chapter and verse by verse. Most teach the tradition of men which makes void the Word of God.
You may not be numbered among them, but most people who say this are really saying, "I've not found a church that does everything the way I want it done." So they remove themselves from the refining presence of true fellowship, and spin off into weird and bizarre teachings and beliefs.(path;63637)
I don't need to attend a 'church' to do that, as a believer I can do that anywhere.No thanks, they have to many doctrines I do not agree with.
And it could just be that you are the one who is wrong. Anybody can take Scripture out of context, ignore parts of it, and piecemeal together their own belief system. But that is precisely why we need brotherse & sisters, in the Church, to challenge us, guide us and encourage right interpretation of Scripture.What I have found is that, almost to a man, the people who claim there are "no churches that preach and teach the Word of God" are really people who simply cannot get along with other Christians. They think they're always right about everything, cannot admit that they may have the wrong view of anything, and love to argue incessantly. You may very well NOT be one of them - and I sincerely hope you're not - but that has been my experience of the last quarter-century.

 

[HammerStone]

You've got a lot of self-justification going on there, while ignoring both Acts 2:38 and Hebrews 10:25.
And similarly, I could say that you've missed a few verses as well.Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
A good church is a good thing, and yes it's better to go to a good church than to no church at all. However, the majority never has really gotten it right. Entires churchs can and will be wrong. Do you really think the Lord is going to listen to someone who didn't really know him yet says "But Father, I went to CHURCH!?" There is no commandment that thou shalt go to church. Sorry. That's men rewriting doctrines when they have problems filling pews because they don't teach the truth loudly enough.
What I have found is that, almost to a man, the people who claim there are "no churches that preach and teach the Word of God" are really people who simply cannot get along with other Christians.
And obviously, no one here made the claim that there are no churches that teach truth, that's a complete red herring.

 

[bigape]

Hi Swamp FoxYou said........“There is no commandment that thou shalt go to church.”Yes there is........
Hebrews 10:25“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”

 

[HammerStone]

Bigape, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.Hebrews 10:24-25
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
Going to church does not qualify a Christian.Church can be a gathering, but a gathering in Christ is not necessarily a church. Christians assemble frequently in other means and capacities. Don't just listen to me, take it to the Greek:http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexico...ngs=G1997&t=KJVThis isn't a word for church, it's a word for assembly, which can mean a variety of things.How about the guy that holds a Bible Study at work, but doesn't make it church? What about the owner of a forum who reaches hundreds of souls, and maybe saves a few along the way, but doesn't go to church? Can you knowingly look them in the face, and tell them they aren't doing the work of the Lord? (I know people, quite personally, that function in both roles.)Keep in mind this is from the mouth of someone who does attend church. I'll leave off with Scripture, because it always says it best.Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Jordan]

(bigape;63633)
Hi JordanI was great to hear that you are saved, but very disturbing to hear you say, that you “hate going to Church”.Perhaps you are going to the wrong Church.-------------------------------------------------- Jesus said.......A “Christian” Church, is where you will find other Believers, and if your saved, you will love them.-------------------------------------------------- Also you said.......“And no we don't need to be water baptized.”Well lets see what Jesus said, was the reason He was baptized in water........Jesus said, that He was baptized, because it was the right thing to do.“to fulfil all righteousness”-------------------------------------------------- Baptism does not get us saved nor add to our salvation, but it is something we do in obedience.
Water Baptism is symbolic to John 3:5-6. Not exactly required. The theif didn't get baptized by water...Luke 23:39 -And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.Luke 23:40 - But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?Luke 23:41 - And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.But Christ said this below.Luke 23:42 - And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.Luke 23:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.Christ said that he will be save, being with him in paradise. So if water baptism is required. It clearly contradicts Ephesians 4:5.......(ffbruce;63643)
(Jordan;63631)
You've got a lot of self-justification going on there, while ignoring both Acts 2:38 and Hebrews 10:25.
You've got a lot of self-justification going on there, while ignoring both Acts 2:38 and Hebrews 10:25.Need I have to repeat Matthew 3:11, Ephesians 4:5, Ephesians 2:8-9 (Ref: Romans 11:6)?

 

[ffbruce]

I'm going to repeat myself, and make a couple things crystal clear. Then I'm going to sit back and watch the spin...In the past quarter-century, I've heard lots of people talk about being believers who refuse to go to church. Virtually every one of them will follow the course of one (or both) of two excuses:1. Church-goers aren't necessarily Christians, and in fact, many behave worse than non church-goers.2. There aren't any churches that are teaching and preaching the full Word of God correctly.There are several similarities that run consistent with these "Christians who refuse to go to church":1. Messed up doctrine and theology. This is due to a refusal to fellowship and study with learned believers, who can challenge tunnel vision and correct false doctrine. It's much easier to just walk away from people who challenge you, than it is to actually do the hard work of exegesis and hermeneutics, and study to see if what you're claiming is actually true.2. An inability to get along with other people. Most of these people are rather combative, and aggressively disagreeable. Highly critical of others, but very thin-skinned anytime a question is pointed their direction.3. An arrogance that leads said persons to think that they've learned things that nobody has ever learned before, see things in Scripture that everybody else is too dull to see, and have spiritual insights missed by lesser people.4. Habitual laziness & selfishness. It's so much easier - on a Sunday morning - to sleep in, lounge around the house in a robe while sipping coffee, do a little reading & "spiritual stuff" than it is to get up, get dressed, and join with the assembly of believers for fellowship, study, worship and praise. It's also much easier to not feel guilty about not putting anything in the offering plate.That said, I will go on to say that I've not yet met ANYBODY, who claims to be a Christian yet refuses to worship with other believers at a local church, who is actually growing and dynamic in their faith. I've seen this repeatedly over the last quarter century, and have see no evidence to the contrary.

 

[bigape]

Hi ffbruceWell said!

 

[Jordan]

(bigape;63656)
Hi ffbruceWell said!
Well, if you live in a place where no churches teaches God's Words, now what? That's why I got here to fellowship, and this is also an assembly, a assembly of two or more Christians group together.I know I can safely say that churches that preaches tradition of men will be spue out by God...BTW, I hate coffee, even though I never tried it.

 

[fullpana]

Men, i'd just like to say that im so glad i've joined this forum. It's awesome to see educative discussions and different points of view, and no matter the disagreement you all love one another and see each other just as worthy as yourselves. Am I right to say that we are all guilty of misinterpreting something on the Bible to one degree or another?Hey, does home fellowships count as "going to church"?

 

[Jordan]

(fullpana;63659)
Men, i'd just like to say that im so glad i've joined this forum. It's awesome to see educative discussions and different points of view, and no matter the disagreement you all love one another and see each other just as worthy as yourselves. Am I right to say that we are all guilty of misinterpreting something on the Bible to one degree or another?Hey, does home fellowships count as "going to church"?
Going here, CB (Christianity Board) counts as "going to church" because it's a assembly. So does home fellowships counts, because it's an assembly. By the way, around Christ's time, Christianity was illegal, so the only place they could fellowship without getting caught, is your house or someone elses house. Modern world today likes to narrow it to an actually church building of today. Geez.

 

[tomwebster]

(ffbruce;63643)
You may not be numbered among them, but most people who say this are really saying, "I've not found a church that does everything the way I want it done." So they remove themselves from the refining presence of true fellowship, and spin off into weird and bizarre teachings and beliefs.
Well, I don't really care about what you think "most people" are saying. I will put my Bible study group up against any church for depth of study and teaching GOD's Word not mans.
What I have found is that, almost to a man, the people who claim there are "no churches that preach and teach the Word of God" are really people who simply cannot get along with other Christians. They think they're always right about everything, cannot admit that they may have the wrong view of anything, and love to argue incessantly. You may very well NOT be one of them - and I sincerely hope you're not - but that has been my experience of the last quarter-century… There are several similarities that run consistent with these "Christians who refuse to go to church":1. Messed up doctrine and theology. This is due to a refusal to fellowship and study with learned believers, who can challenge tunnel vision and correct false doctrine. It's much easier to just walk away from people who challenge you, than it is to actually do the hard work of exegesis and hermeneutics, and study to see if what you're claiming is actually true.2. An inability to get along with other people. Most of these people are rather combative, and aggressively disagreeable. Highly critical of others, but very thin-skinned anytime a question is pointed their direction.3. An arrogance that leads said persons to think that they've learned things that nobody has ever learned before, see things in Scripture that everybody else is too dull to see, and have spiritual insights missed by lesser people.4. Habitual laziness & selfishness. It's so much easier - on a Sunday morning - to sleep in, lounge around the house in a robe while sipping coffee, do a little reading & "spiritual stuff" than it is to get up, get dressed, and join with the assembly of believers for fellowship, study, worship and praise. It's also much easier to not feel guilty about not putting anything in the offering plate.
If a church teaches the so-called rapture doctrine or the "any moment" doctrine they are leading there people to follow Satan. I will not go to that church, you may if YOU wish. You may listen to all the false doctrine and tradition of man you want, see where it gets you!And again, I will put my Bible study group up against any group, fact is some day we will.
Hebrews 10:25“Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.”
Before YOU can lecture me on Scripture YOU better learn some Greek!

 

[ffbruce]

(Jordan;63658)
Well, if you live in a place where no churches teaches God's Words, now what? That's why I got here to fellowship, and this is also an assembly, a assembly of two or more Christians group together.I know I can safely say that churches that preaches tradition of men will be spue out by God...BTW, I hate coffee, even though I never tried it.
I doubt very seriously that there are no good Bible-teaching and preaching churches within reasonable distance of where you live.I think you already clarified the reason you're not part of a local church family. Earlier you said, "I hate going to church!"Everything else is just justification.

 

[Jordan]

(ffbruce;63666)
(Jordan;63658)
Well, if you live in a place where no churches teaches God's Words, now what? That's why I got here to fellowship, and this is also an assembly, a assembly of two or more Christians group together.I know I can safely say that churches that preaches tradition of men will be spue out by God...BTW, I hate coffee, even though I never tried it.
I doubt very seriously that there are no good Bible-teaching and preaching churches within reasonable distance of where you live.I think you already clarified the reason you're not part of a local church family. Earlier you said, "I hate going to church!"Everything else is just justification.Because I will not partake the table and the cup from the Devil? Thanks, but no thanks.

 

[tomwebster]

(ffbruce;63666)
I doubt very seriously that there are no good Bible-teaching and preaching churches within reasonable distance of where you live.
...ff, RE-READ my post:
If a church teaches the so-called rapture doctrine or the "any moment" doctrine they are leading there people to follow Satan. I will not go to that church, you may if YOU wish. You may listen to all the false doctrine and tradition of man you want, see where it gets you!
The vast majority of churches that say the teach Bible teach only traditions of man. And traditions of man make void the Word of God.Bigape, In you OP you said,
The only question that matters, is “Are you saved”....
I anticipate you are a "Once-saved, always saved" person. Tell me, if a person is "saved" following you prescription for salvation and worships the antichrist, turning their back on the True Christ, because he/she hasn't been taught the Truth from Scripture what will happen to them? Do not try to tell me that this person wasn't saved in the first place. You say you are "saved," when you worship the antichrist because you haven't heard the Word of God with understanding, what will happen to you?We are living in the end times. The antichrist will come in OUR generation. The vast majority of the Christian Church WILL fail the test because they have been taught a lie.

 

[Christina]

Church is where two or more gather in his name, no building is necessary We are also told there is a famine in the land for the true Word of God Amos 8:11-12God says he hates our traditions which is what is taught in many churches We are victims of fast food religion. Give us the feel good easy stuff. But our churches do not teach us how to study for ourselves or much anything past milk, God says learn the meat. Meat is not tradition of men its Gods Word.