The Only Way We Will Ever Agree

[marks]

I see people quoting proof texts that they use for their conclusions. What I don't see are those verses that call their proof texts into doubt. Until we use all of scripture to delves into truth, we will not agree.

When don't we use all of scripture? Well, it takes time and effort. Worse yet, the truth may gore our sacred ox and leave us more humble that we'd like.

I've asked God to give me truth while delving into scripture and had Him convict me of falsely claiming that I already knew "the truth." Even asking Him to "take it back" didn't work.

Learning that way will cause a disruption in our hearts and a change in relationships with those who used to accept you based on the fact that you were "all of one mind" previously but now aren't.

We don't like being the oddball among our social group. In that, I think we fear learning God's truth. After all, when we have the social support of 99 others, we fear being the one lamb that follows a different trail.

This is another post I've had to give a lot of thought to. You've raised some very good points!

Incomplete understandings from insufficient learning, or worse still, getting into a "protectionist" stance because we fear losing some teaching we think we need, or worse still, refusing new teaching lest it tear us away from our group.

Realizing, I may yet be wrong, realizing that if God corrects me, it's a GOOD thing, realizing that I am my Father's child, even if I'm confused, realizing that our primary relationship is with our Father, not with our friends and fellows, realizing that if we grow and learn, we will be more able to give good gifts to others.

More mulling to do on this one too!

Much love!

 

[JunChosen]

The Only Way We Will Ever Agree​

Is when we get to know and how to understand Bible doctrines and it's interpretations by the leading of the Holy Spirit!!! Because it means an intense study of Holy Scriptures and most are lazy and tend to take other peoples' interpretations even when wrong.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 reads:

14 Of these things put [them] in remembrance, charging [them] before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, [but] to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

To God Be The Glory

 

[marks]

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The heart of the matter.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Because it means an intense study of Holy Scriptures and most are lazy and tend to take other peoples' interpretations even when wrong.

We also need to be willing, no, not just willing, quick, happy to, drop our prior interpretations when we find they are in error.

Much love!

 

[Scott Downey]

We also need to be willing, no, not just willing, quick, happy to, drop our prior interpretations when we find they are in error.

Much love!

Scripture does tell us a reason for why we are not all in agreement.
And it has to do with our future judgement and God's plans for us on an individual basis in His kingdom and the age to come.

1 Corinthians 11
17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be [b]recognized among you.

Paul dealt with divisions in the church constantly and nothing has changed today.

God will show His approval for some and disapproval for others, and that is the way the kingdom of God is.
You may not see His approval in this life over doctrine and living out the kingdom of God in this life, but you will definitely experience that at the judgement seat of Christ.
Not everyone has the same resurrection, some will have more and some will have less rewards. God is not a communist.
All may have eternal life in Christ, no we are not all clones.

Christ brings a sword in families. The division is of the Lord, according to His own purposes, the council of His own self.

Christ Brings Division​

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.

 

[JunChosen]

We also need to be willing, no, not just willing, quick, happy to, drop our prior interpretations when we find they are in error.

Much love!

True! I guess you've never assessed how a person's ego play a big part in his being. Only a child of God will come down from his high horse if someone points out to him that his interpretations are in error.

A child of God should be able to teach as well as also to be taught!

To God Be The Glory

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Only Way We Will Ever Agree​

Is when we get to know and how to understand Bible doctrines and it's interpretations by the leading of the Holy Spirit!!! Because it means an intense study of Holy Scriptures and most are lazy and tend to take other peoples' interpretations even when wrong.

2 Timothy 2:14-19 reads:

14 Of these things put [them] in remembrance, charging [them] before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, [but] to the subverting of the hearers.
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

To God Be The Glory

Another issue

People with apposing views both believe the Holy Spirit led them to that conclusion.

Pride still comes into play.

 

[Spyder]

I would say there is only one true essential, You must be born again. I think after that God will see to your needs.

Much love!

There is one true essential, but that essential is simply the starting line. We cannot then sit back and claim it as our fire insurance. We must grow. That growth requires our desire to do so. One could say that, if we do not have the desire to do so; we skipped the one true essential.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is one true essential, but that essential is simply the starting line. We cannot then sit back and claim it as our fire insurance. We must grow. That growth requires our desire to do so. One could say that, if we do not have the desire to do so; we skipped the one true essential.

What do you mean by starting line?

 

[Spyder]

What do you mean by starting line?

As in the word of the Apostle Paul - he has run the race.....

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As in the word of the Apostle Paul - he has run the race.....

So the beginning of our christian walk? I am just asking because there are a few different views of what kind of race we are running.. Its one of the many disgreements The op is talking about..

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Excellent post! I can't think of a word to add to what you've said here.

Much love!

Your thread considering why we all disagree and how can ever agree, makes me consider why I am even here on this board. I do see your title translating to more than on a Christian board. The title of your thread could apply to marriages or relationships in trouble …having this same problem …The Only Way We Will Ever Agree. It’s a very important topic to consider (Imo)…since so many relationships are damaged by debates and disputes. Even siblings that parts ways because of their strong opinions and ideas that are polar opposites. Still considering your topic…

 

[marks]

We cannot then sit back and claim it as our fire insurance. We must grow.

I would say, myself, that if we've been born again, we don't just sit back, we do in fact grow. Sometimes it takes a long time for others to see it. Sometimes I think we don't see it ourselves at times. We are all so very different!

That growth requires our desire to do so.

I think the reborn do have that desire. But we truly cannot see into another's heart. Is it because they aren't growing? Is it because they don't want to? Is it because they are not really born again? Is it because we lack the ability to see? Which is true?

One could say that, if we do not have the desire to do so; we skipped the one true essential.

Yes, I'd agree. Many in Christendom are not truly Christians.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1 Corinthians 11
17 Now in giving these instructions I do not praise you, since you come together not for the better but for the worse. 18 For first of all, when you come together as a church, I hear that there are divisions among you, and in part I believe it. 19 For there must also be factions among you, that those who are approved may be [b]recognized among you.

Paul dealt with divisions in the church constantly and nothing has changed today.

God will show His approval for some and disapproval for others, and that is the way the kingdom of God is.
You may not see His approval in this life over doctrine and living out the kingdom of God in this life, but you will definitely experience that at the judgement seat of Christ.

I'll need to think this over a bit. I've long understood that passage to be telling us that the divisions exist for our benefit, so we can know who are the approved teachers and who are not, so we can know who's teaching we should receive.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The title of your thread could apply to marriages or relationships in trouble …having this same problem …The Only Way We Will Ever Agree. It’s a very important topic to consider (Imo)…since so many relationships are damaged by debates and disputes. Even siblings that parts ways because of their strong opinions and ideas that are polar opposites. Still considering your topic…

I think there is a different question you are touching on, How do we live in unity though we may still disagree? For me, it's all about being humble and serving others.

I've been married 35 years next month. My wife and I have learned when to shut up, and accept the difference until it's not there. We've learned that time tends to sort these things out, and that either one of us could end up changing our minds.

I likewise frequently question my participation here these days! In everything, in life, on the forum, it's all the same, I here to bring to you a gift from God, and the best thing I can do is stay out of the way with my petty personal preferences, or whatever it is.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I guess you've never assessed how a person's ego play a big part in his being.

Well, sorry to disappoint . . . I have actually. I think "ego" could be used to describe what we are putting of when we say, put off the old man, and put on the new. We put off our egos and put on Christ, could be a way to say it.

I think all of God's children are called to give a reason for why they trust in Christ. God has appointed certain ones to teach, and has given a spiritual giftedness to teach to certain ones.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Another issue

People with apposing views both believe the Holy Spirit led them to that conclusion.

Pride still comes into play.

This is what I was targeting for this thread, that we have subjective personal views on things that are not specifically verifiable from the text.

"Spiritual understandings" which supercede the actual wording used, like that.

Pride, ego, hubris, call it what we will, when we feel like, I just know it really means that, even though the wording is this, I think we need to be able to recognize that, and step back, and seek understanding, until we can read our beliefs in the Bible itself.

I really think that the Bible is given to us to know God, and also to know to identify error, if we will receive it.

Much love!

 

[JunChosen]

Well, sorry to disappoint . . . I have actually. I think "ego" could be used to describe what we are putting of when we say, put off the old man, and put on the new. We put off our egos and put on Christ, could be a way to say it.

That would be ideal, but many confessing Christians do Not!

As you've said in post #155, "For me, it's all about being humble and serving others."

I think all of God's children are called to give a reason for why they trust in Christ. God has appointed certain ones to teach, and has given a spiritual giftedness to teach to certain ones.

Much love!

I believe God called all his children to teach, as per Matthew 28:19-20, which reads:

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Scott Downey]

I'll need to think this over a bit. I've long understood that passage to be telling us that the divisions exist for our benefit, so we can know who are the approved teachers and who are not, so we can know who's teaching we should receive.

Much love!

Except that in this life with all the various diverse doctrines out there, if the followers of the teachers of those doctrines cannot tell truth from error, (and you would think if they thought they were taught false doctrines, then they would speak up or leave, but most do nothing ), then neither can we recognize the truth about a matter.

You will not know truth unless God reveals it to you by His Spirit. He can do that through preaching or directly to your spirit the things of God.

If what you said it true, then false teachers would have very few followers, but we see the opposite. And we know scripture says false teachers, (evil men and imposters, false apostles, etc...) will get worse and worse up until the end.

 

[Scott Downey]

Jesus warns us not to love the things around us more than Himself.
If your 'teacher', Pastor, whoever, is giving you bad information about God and Christ, who do you love more, Jesus, (the way, the truth, and the Life) or the one you are infatuated with on the earth that has your eyes and ears and apparently your heart.

Christ Brings Division​

34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 For I have come to ‘set[j] a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; 36 and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ 37 He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. 38 And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.