See, here is the first divider: what are the "essential doctrines?" No doctrine should be considered essential unless it is declared so by Yahweh or by an Apostle of Yeshua the Christ.
Unfortunately, churches fail to see this as true.
The Only Way We Will Ever Agree
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Unfortunately, churches fail to see this as true.
I have to admit that I have never known anyone to take that parable this way.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
false love will be the way they all agree . Doctrine will be removed and replaced with the idea of this false love .
HECK its long been under way within the churches , within even the false religoins , within the world
to have us all just get along and having this fake love as our common ground .
DONT BUY INTO IT .
and since when DID JESUS ever say HE came to UNITE THE WORLD as ONE .
OR bring about world peace n safety . HE actually said THINK NOT i came to DO THIS .
THE CHURCHES ARE GETTING WAY TOO FOCUSED ON THE WRONG KIND OF STUFF .
MY advice is we get ourselves reacquainted with some bible .
OH i already know what the answer is . ITS GONNA BE THIS FALSE LOVEY DO CRAP
that overlooks DOCTRINES and just focuses on getting along . But then
it aint too hard for me to assume this , WHEN I SEE IT ALREADY MORPHING THEM to do such a thing .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The church has went from the SONG of solomon
to the SONG of the beetles as they sing , ALL YE NEED IS LOVE .
THAT IS THE UNIFYING FORCE , only IT AINT THE LOVE OF GOD they embracing
ITS THE LOVE that came of men of this world and of the dragon
TO UNITE THEM and even with the false religoins , to merge them all to be as one
under what they THINK is LOVE and CALL GOD . ONLY YOO HOO , ITS THE DEVIL .
to the SONG of the beetles as they sing , ALL YE NEED IS LOVE .
THAT IS THE UNIFYING FORCE , only IT AINT THE LOVE OF GOD they embracing
ITS THE LOVE that came of men of this world and of the dragon
TO UNITE THEM and even with the false religoins , to merge them all to be as one
under what they THINK is LOVE and CALL GOD . ONLY YOO HOO , ITS THE DEVIL .
I've come to know that the major disagreements in scripture and doctrine are influenced by these several factors, as the human building blocks for truth in scripture. It is now common for me to think this way when I enter a thread and post.
Not in any particular order:
The Spirit of God, one's Theology, one's Christology, one's Eschatology, the local and extended context of scripture at-hand, the local meaning of words and expressions, including their symbolism, as analogies, as metaphors, and even idioms, that are numerous in scripture.
Now if you created a table and filled in the names on this site in the vertical 1st column and these factors running along the top row, and you filled in the blanks for each person, assigning group numbers for each person based of the most shared factors, you can/will then find those within their respective group will agree more that those of another group.
This way you can understand your audience better, and it makes for a much better and rewarding conversation, or discussion.
I do believe that the major factor is and always be the Spirit as every genuine believer has it within them. Pray even silence, before hand can do wonders...and this prayer is only a few words from/for the heart to know we are engaging in the Almighty for guidance....
The kicker though, are we willing to use scripture effectively in our discussions or not...or be lazy and just throw out a verse or even a list of verses to squelch opposition or even the entire conversation...without learning anything....attitude of the heart counts...
-----that's it---------
Not in any particular order:
The Spirit of God, one's Theology, one's Christology, one's Eschatology, the local and extended context of scripture at-hand, the local meaning of words and expressions, including their symbolism, as analogies, as metaphors, and even idioms, that are numerous in scripture.
Now if you created a table and filled in the names on this site in the vertical 1st column and these factors running along the top row, and you filled in the blanks for each person, assigning group numbers for each person based of the most shared factors, you can/will then find those within their respective group will agree more that those of another group.
This way you can understand your audience better, and it makes for a much better and rewarding conversation, or discussion.
I do believe that the major factor is and always be the Spirit as every genuine believer has it within them. Pray even silence, before hand can do wonders...and this prayer is only a few words from/for the heart to know we are engaging in the Almighty for guidance....
The kicker though, are we willing to use scripture effectively in our discussions or not...or be lazy and just throw out a verse or even a list of verses to squelch opposition or even the entire conversation...without learning anything....attitude of the heart counts...
-----that's it---------
Dear Spyder,
The story is a parable. It uses "spirit" words (John 6:63) to teach its message (like all of Christ's teachings do). Below I will quickly summarize the parable's meaning.
Here is the story:
Mat 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
The parable is retold in Luke:
Luke 15:3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying, 4 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? 5 And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. 7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.
In this age, Christ is only saving the Elect who have been chosen from the foundation of the world. The one "lost" sheep represents the Elect who come out from the "many" sheep who have been called to be saints. The Elect are "few". For that reason, Christ begins His parable by saying that the "Son of Man is come to save that which is lost". Christ is referring to the Elect who are the lost sheep and who He came to save.
The ninety nine sheep represent the "many" who have been called into the church. Notice in Luke 15:4 that it says the ninety nine sheep are in the wilderness. The term "wilderness" is a symbol for where Satan dwells over his apostate church. The ninety nine sheep remain under the Law and are not saved. They are following Satan's "another gospel" which mixes works with faith. This is the crooked way. Because of the spiritual blindness of the ninety nine sheep, they do not realize that they need to repent of their works. They are dwelling in peace and safety under the deceptions of Satan. The ninety nine sheep do not realize that they are deceived - that is the nature of deception.
In the parable, the one sheep leaves the wilderness and goes into the mountains. The term "mountains" is a symbol for heaven and is where Christ gathers an Elect believer just before judgment falls on them (the story of Lot, Mat 24:15-16). Traveling to the mountains represents that the Elect believer has received the Latter Rain of the Spirit and is being gathered to heaven (Mat 24:29-31). It is in the mountains where the Elect believer is found (saved) by Christ. Being "found" is a symbol for salvation. After Christ finds His lost sheep, He places them on His shoulders and carries them. This represents that the Elect believer is no longer mixing their own works with faith but is now trusting Christ to do all the work. In other words, the lost sheep is now walking by the Spirit and by faith.
This verse also applies:
Phil 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
To properly understand Christ's "spirit" words, Paul says that they should be compared with how those same spirit words are used elsewhere in scripture. Then, with the discernment that the Holy Spirit gives the believer, the true meaning of the spirit word can be found.
1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual.
Search scripture for the spirit words that I pointed out in the parable (there are others I did not point out) and see if you can discern their true meaning. Some words are easy to understand but others require a great deal of discernment from the Spirit.
After a believer is converted, their spiritual blindness will be healed and the truth of Christ's teaching will open up to their understanding. For that reason, the unconverted believers in the apostate church do not understand the teachings of Christ - that is why you have never heard the true meaning of the parable of the lost sheep before. The parable's message is retold in other parables, too - like the "lost coin" and the "prodigal son". In fact, most of Christ's parables teach on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation.
Below is an easy example which shows how to discover the meanings of Christ's spirit words so that the true message of what Christ is teaching can be understood:
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.
Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?
The spiritual language of the Word of God utilizes the Hebrew and Greek languages. However, Christ assigns meanings to the Hebrew and Greek words which are different from how they are commonly defined:
1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the word SWORD to teach a spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. In other words, we must compare spiritual things with spiritual.
Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...
Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...
From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spiritual word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.
Christ’s hidden spiritual point He is making in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who are “called out”, received the Early Rain of the Spirit), must perish (death of the child of the Devil) by the Sword. This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person and gives them BOTH the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain/Spirit of Truth) and the Baptism of Fire (judgment of the child of the Devil):
Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.
This conversion event is what the Apostles experienced on the Day of Pentecost:
Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of FIRE, and it sat upon each of them. 4 And they were all filled with the HOLY SPIRIT, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
In the spiritual language of Christ, the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the Sword. This is conversion.
In light of what I presented above, do you understand what this verse below is teaching?
Isa 66:16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
I have underlined the key portions of the verse.
Joe
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Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Most Christians believe and have in common the essential doctrines:
* God created everything and is sovereign
* Good and evil need to be understood
* Heaven and Hell exist
* Man is body, soul and spirit
* Angels, Satan and Demons exist
* Inerrency of God's Word
* Miracles have taken place and still do
* Our main purpose in life is to be reconciled to God through Christ alone, Who died for our sins, was buried and rose from the dead on the third day
* The wages of sin is death
*All have sinned and need forgiveness and to be baptized by the Holy Spirit
* Prayer is vital to commune with God
* Faith, hope, peace, love, joy, kindness, gentleness, self control, patience are fruit of the Spirit
* We believe, therefore we follow and obey Christ
* Jesus will return in Judgment and separate good from evil, sheep from goats
That's off the top of my head and I'm sure I missed something ...
However, is there anything here you do not agree with?
Bob
Member
Thank you for your question.
But, does it matter? Suppose 99% of the people on Earth practiced Love Thy Neighbor (and the remaining 1% were neutralized: might FOR right). Would any other disagreements be significant? Isn’t God pleased when people live in harmony with each other and are serious stewards of our planet?
Peace and Blessings.
But, does it matter? Suppose 99% of the people on Earth practiced Love Thy Neighbor (and the remaining 1% were neutralized: might FOR right). Would any other disagreements be significant? Isn’t God pleased when people live in harmony with each other and are serious stewards of our planet?
Peace and Blessings.
I give your post a 'love' as I saw a new intriguing use of the word 'taking up the sword' that has bypast me in the past.....on this point then..
The phrase “the Apostles took up the Sword and then died by the Sword” is a biblical reference to the story of Jesus’ arrest and the subsequent actions of his apostles. According to the New Testament, Jesus was arrested in the Garden of Gethsemane and Peter, one of his apostles, drew his sword to defend him. However, Jesus told Peter to put his sword back in its place, saying “all who take the sword will perish by the sword” (Matthew 26:52).
This phrase is often interpreted as a warning against violence and a call to non-violent resistance. Jesus’ words suggest that those who resort to violence will ultimately be destroyed by it, and that a more effective way to overcome evil is through love and non-violent means.
The apostles, including Peter, did not take up the sword in the classical sense, but they did face persecution and martyrdom at the hands of the Romans and other authorities. In this sense, they “died by the sword” as a result of their faith and commitment to Jesus.
Your phrase “this is conversion” does indeed reference the idea that the apostles’ experience of Jesus’ teachings and their subsequent actions of 'taking up their sword(s)' were a turning point in their lives, leading them to a deeper understanding of Jesus’ message and a commitment to following him. They were committed at this point and yes, conversion was its end result...great find!
Thanks mate...
Berean
Member
Hey, you can't tell us you know, then us ask us to tell you what it is. This isn't a "I'm thinking of a number between 13 - 97" moment.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
No, the Shepherd has the 99 sheep safe, the whole group is the elect. They are His sheep. The one that strays has just temporarily drifted off the path. He finds him and brings him back to His flock.
All His sheep were written in the Book of Life. We were all lost from birth, born in sin, needing a Savior, cleansing, etc. He found all of us.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Your "latter rain" theology came out of a confused Pentecostal who just interpreted rain as the Holy Spirit.
This passage clearly gives a figurative analogy about a farmer receiving his early rain water for his crop/ fruit and waita patiently for the latter rain water. The message is to be patient
for the Second Coming of the Lord
Sorry "as literal rain" falls, his doctrine comes weekly and seasonally.
Context is about God's power, His voice commands the rain and snow, light or heavy.
Tje context is a promise of restoration of the land after the devastation it endured during the Great Tribulation. So again, it is about literal rain AFTER the Second Coming. *** Remember during the GT, the Two Witnesses bring a drought/famine for 3 1/2 years. They close up the sky, stop the rain over Israel and likely the entire Middle East - possibly the entire planet.
"Then the Lord will be zealous for His land,
And pity His people.
19 The Lord will answer and say to His people,
“Behold, I will send you grain and new wine and oil,
And you will be satisfied by them;
I will no longer make you a reproach among the nations. *( happening right now)
20 “But I will remove far from you the northern army, (Iran along with one other Islamic nations - also assisted by Russia)
And will drive him away into a barren and desolate land,
* (Great Tribulation /Judgment Day)
With his face toward the eastern sea
And his back toward the western sea;
His stench will come up,
And his foul odor will rise,
Because he has done monstrous things.”
21 Fear not, O land;
Be glad and rejoice,
For the Lord has done marvelous things!
22 Do not be afraid, you beasts of the field;
For the open pastures are springing up,
And the tree bears its fruit;
The fig tree and the vine yield their strength.
23 Be glad then, you children of Zion,
* (this prophecy is for Israel - literally. And we see this escalating of war happening right now leading up to this Great Tribulation.
And rejoice in the Lord your God;
For He has given you the former rain
*(literal the watering of the earth) faithfully,
And He will cause the rain to come down for you—
The former rain,
And the latter rain in the first month.
24 The threshing floors shall be full of wheat,
And the vats shall overflow with new wine and oil.
25 “So I will restore to you the years that the swarming locust has eaten,
The crawling locust,
The consuming locust,
And the chewing locust,
My great army which I sent among you.
26 You shall eat in plenty and be satisfied,
And praise the name of the Lord your God,
Who has dealt wondrously with you;
And My people shall never be put to shame.
27 Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel:
I am the Lord your God
And there is no other.
My people shall never be put to shame."
Romans 11 Confirms that a remnant 1/3 of the Jews ( Israel) will be saved during this time. They will be grafted in to the VINE.But they will be put through the fire tested and when e ery eye sees Jesus, the veil of blindness will be removed.
The Only Way We Will Ever Agree
Is when we learn how to understand Bible doctrines and its' interpretations!!
To God Be The Glory
Dear APAK,
Thanks for your comments.
Conversion only occurs by the very specific spiritual work of Christ that He does within a person. It has nothing to do with a person's actions or their walk. Christ is the Savior and He is the one who does the saving. Mankind can contribute nothing and will have nothing to boast about as to why they are saved.
When Christ is ready to convert an Elect believer, He will come to them a second time and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The first time Christ came to them was when He gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. This is when they took up the Sword.
Peter was given the Early Rain of the Spirit during Christ's ministry. That is when Peter received a measure of faith and called Jesus "Lord".
After an person receives the Early Rain, they will become a "believer" and will enter the church. They then begin their time of waiting for the Lord (Bridegroom) to come a second time to them to confirm their inheritance (Elect status) with the Latter Rain:
Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful Rain (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.
Peter experienced the Latter Rain of the Spirit on the Day of Pentecost with the other Jewish Elect who were also waiting for His return.
Since that time, Christ has come over and over again to all His Elect during this age.
These verses apply:
Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.
The Latter Rain is also called the "Spirit of Truth". Christ calls it that because, with the Spirit of Truth, the spiritual blindness of the believer is healed. Christ will then come and feed the newly "born again" believer His bread (truth) and New Wine (New Covenant).
This event is the spiritual fulfillment of the Lord's Supper:
Luke 22:15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: 16For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God. 17 And he took the cup, and gave thanks, and said, Take this, and divide it among yourselves: 18 For I say unto you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine, until the kingdom of God shall come. 19And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
After Christ has fed the Elect believer sufficient nourishment, the truth they have consumed will bring judgment to the child of the Devil/man of sin:
2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
After the believer's judgment is complete, the believer be converted.
Peter experienced the conversion event on the Day of Pentecost and that was when he was slayed by the Sword of Christ.
Have you ever considered how the symbol "sword" is used in the verses below?
Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
Rev 13:4 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
The Seven Headed Beast who has the wound by the Sword represents a believer who has been struck in the head by Christ's Sword at the time they received the Early Rain of the Spirit. But since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in "measure" (a small amount), the blow to their head is not immediately fatal. This results in a spiritual war developing within the believer between the Holy Spirit and the believer's carnal nature. The war is a fight for control of the believer's mind (head) which controls their "walk". At present, the believer is still walking by sight (the flesh/carnal nature) and remains carnal and unconverted.
As the war continues, Satan comes to the aid of the believer's carnal nature and strengthens it with the spirit of anti-Christ. This is the second beast mentioned in Revelation chapter 13. With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the believer, the Holy Spirit loses the war and the deadly head wound is healed. The believer remains carnal and unconverted. But even worse, with the spirit of anti-Christ now within the believer, they become "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This event is the spiritual fulfillment of the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15) and it causes the believer to fall away and become apostate.
In this apostate condition, the believer has become the Seven Headed beast of Revelation chapter 13 who is controlled by the second beast (spirit of anti-Christ). The believer has now become a man of sin/anti-Christ. They will remain in this apostate condition in Satan's apostate church until they die or until Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit.
In this age, Christ is only coming a second time to His chosen Elect. Those who are a part of the "many" called but not chosen group will die in their sins and receive their portion with the unbelievers.
When Christ comes the second time to an apostate Elect believer, He will deliver a second blow (the Latter Rain) to the believer's head. This time the Spirit comes with "power" and will heal the believer's spiritual blindness. After Christ feeds the believer his truth at the Lord's Supper, the truth will remove and destroy the worsened carnality of the believer (called Mystery Babylon the Great Harlot) and the spirit of anti-Christ. With their destruction, the believer will take on a new head (Christ) and will be converted.
Can you see how the spiritual symbol "sword" is used in the pathway to salvation which an Elect believer travels before they die?
Joe
Dear Mr. Bruno,
You said:
Your "latter rain" theology came out of a confused Pentecostal who just interpreted rain as the Holy Spirit.
No, what I have been presenting is NOT what the Pentecostal church teaches. I have presented the Early and Latter Rain analogy to many Pentecostal believers before and they completely reject it. You either do not know what they teach or you have not carefully read my posts.
As for your other comments on the Early and Latter Rain, your understanding of the verses is carnal and not spiritual.
Christ comes to a person as Rain, as the Early and Latter Rains.
Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former RAIN unto the earth.
When He comes the first time, He gives the person a small amount of the Holy Spirit (Early Rain) which leaves them spiritually blind. This is why Paul became blind on the Damascus Road after Christ came to him and gave him the Early Rain. Paul remained blind until the Latter Rain came with "power" and healed his spiritual blindness. Only then could Paul eat "meat".
The story of the healing of the blind man in Mark 8:15-25 also teaches this truth. I posted a detailed account of that teaching from Mark 8:15-25 earlier in this thread.
Joe
Well Joe, I cannot get my head around this doctrine when you said "In this apostate condition, the believer has become the Seven Headed beast of Revelation chapter 13 who is controlled by the second beast (spirit of anti-Christ). The believer has now become a man of sin/anti-Christ. They will remain in this apostate condition in Satan's apostate church until they die or until Christ comes to them a second time and pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit.."
And your application of two visits of Christ or the spirit and of the way you have used the 1st and last Rain, is also puzzling.
Dear APAK,
The Early and Latter Rain analogy used in God's Word is purposely very concealed and only taught in Christ's spiritual language. But after a person has eyes that can see it, they can find the concept taught in many, many teachings of Christ.
In the marriage analogy, when an unbeliever receives the Early Rain, they are being "espoused" to Christ. When Christ returns for his bride to take her to heaven for the wedding, the bride is given the Latter Rain beforehand to restore her from her apostate condition. In the parable of the Ten Virgins, that is what the extra flask of oil represents. The Foolish Virgins are not given the extra oil (anointing of the Holy Spirit). They represent the many called but not chosen.
In the story of the woman taken in adultery, Christ writes in the earth (represents carnal mankind) TWO times. The first time He writes, He is writing the Law of the Spirit in the heart of the woman. At this time, the Pharisees do not drop their stones. The stones are representative of the Law which is still condemning the woman. After Christ writes in the earth the second time, the Pharisees finally drop their stones and leave. The Law cannot no longer accuse the woman because she is now saved and under the blood of Christ.
Paul's conversion experience is said to be the pattern whereby all the Elect are saved (1Tim 1:16). Paul received the Early Rain on the Damascus Road and called Jesus "Lord". Paul's blindness represented his spiritual blindness. Paul then was lead by the hand (blind leading the blind) into Damascus where he could not eat or drink for three days. This represented that Paul could not consume the true bread from heaven or drink the blood of the New Covenant. The number "three" represents a spiritual process. This process was Paul becoming "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45), a man of sin. Then Paul began to pray and Christ responded (typed by Ananias). Paul's prayer was a prayer of repentance from works because Christ had to travel on "straight" street to reach Paul - who was staying at a home of a man named "Judas" (represents who Paul had become spiritually). When Christ arrived, Paul received the Latter Rain and the scales fell from his eyes. He was then told to eat meat. He was now born again after having fallen away under Satan's deceptions via the spirit of anti-Christ.
Many of the other parables also include the Early and Latter Rain concept but like the ones above, they do not use the spiritual symbols "Early and Latter Rains". However, the concept of what they teach is still in those teachings. The concept is veiled by the spiritual language of Christ and requires spiritual understanding to see and receive what they teach.
One other point: After Paul's death, the churches that he and the other apostles started all become apostate by the spirit of anti-Christ. Paul teaches this truth in Acts 20:29-31. He verbally warned the churches for three years with tears - it was a very big deal and distressed Paul greatly. Nothing as changed since that time. The gospel the apostate church teaches is based on mixing works with faith. This is Satan's "another gospel". When a believer accepts this false gospel, they are committing fornication with Satan. This is the sin that Adam and Eve committed in the Garden of Eden. This is also the one sin that a believer can commit that "leads to death" (loss of salvation). It is with this sin that Satan afflicts and kills the saints (Mat 24:9). Only the second coming of Christ when He brings the Latter Rain will restore a believer to salvation.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
I hope this helps.
Joe
I do not agree with your marriage analogy of the 1st and the last rains as the historical two rain cycles in two seasons of the same year.
When I first became converted it can be analogous to an engagement ceremony to Christ and presided over by the Spirit of God. Then after this life, it is the actual bonds of marriage and wedding in the Kingdom, again presided over by the Spirit of God. Now I do not consider these as an outpourings of the Spirit of the elect, let alone of an unbeliever who cannot receive the Spirit of God, ever. That is why they are called unbelievers. The Spirit does not give an unbeliever the spirit of his Son without meeting God's requirements for conversion and salvation.
The 2-cycles of rain is the outpouring of the Spirit of God upon 'the fields,' or upon the inhabitable world of people selected for conversion and salvation, over two separate time periods.
I think and it's still in question, the first rain was a much smaller downpouring of the Spirit, at Pentecost, and the 2nd began months later as a huge outpouring, occurring after Pentecost as the gospel was being spread outside of Judea.
And for the other applications of the rains you gave, I do not agree with either; of the writing on the ground twice concerning this woman for example. It does not make any sense to me to treat this action as an actual outpouring of the Spirit on only one person....this is not a personal private downpour of the Spirit only for just one person.
These are rains with a plural, one in season of rain its hits more that one area of a farmer's field several times in that season...I hope you see where I'm going with this..
And this Anti-Christ infusion is even harder for me to fathom as I do not believe in just one Anti-Christ spirit in the first place. There are many as they were in Christ's generation. It is wishful thinking of the part of modern day 'biblical' theorists and futurists.
I'm curious to know were you might have learned all this..
Late addition.
I guess these 2 rain intervals can be consider and given on personal level as well 1. At the initiation as a new convert, and second, with a rain of maturity by the Spirit of God as for spiritual growth...
1 Corinthians 3:6–8 — The New International Version (NIV)
6 I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7 So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8 The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor.
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I personally believe, HOW TO gain Gods Understanding of HIS OWN WORD, is not a majority highlight teaching in Churches…and a FAILURE on their part…
Because that UNDERSTANDING does NOT come from men, regardless of their position or title or supplemental teaching books.
The ONLY way for men to agree on the meanings of scripture is when such men learn to ASK the SOURCE.
1 Cor 22
[12] Only the LORD give thee wisdom and understanding, and give thee charge concerning Israel, that thou mayest keep the law of the LORD thy God.
God Bless you marks,
Glory to God,
Taken
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
The "Latter rain" Pentecostal movement began in late 19th century. The group was led primarily by George Hawtin and Percy G. Hunt, two former pastors of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada, and Herrick Holt, a pastor of the Church of the Foursquare Gospel in North Battleford. Anyone can read all about it.
So everyone that disagrees with you is carnal? I guess I'll leave now, don't want to rain on your parade.
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