The Order of Salvation

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Behold

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Red herring. Do you have anything to share concerning the subject at hand?

The subject at hand is your John Calvinism.
I've just shared plenty.
If you need more, im here for you.

Reader,.

Let me show you where John C proved he is a incredible heretic.

First and foremost, he decided that HE is the final authority who can re-define the Cross of Christ as "limited atonement'.

Now, it takes a special DEVIL indeed to believe that THEY are called to re-define God's Atonement, as needing to be updated, revised, and completely changed so that it eternally offends the Grace of God.

See, at the core of this madman's teaching is his idea that The Cross is only available to SOME.

So, THAT... is CROSS DENYING.... GRACE REJECTiON....= ."doctrine of Devils"..

And @CadyandZoe .... no need to show me "vessels fitted for destruction" and other verses that Calvin could not understand and so he twisted them to suit his own theologically perverted Grace denying, concepts.

And where did he first go completely demonic?

It is regarding the fact..... that John CALVIN could not comprehend or understand that "God knowing everything " (Fore-Knowledge) is not the same thing as God CAUSING everything.

So, he redefined " God's Foreknowledge" as "pre-destined" as that is where the Devil led him, theologically. And once there, it just got WORSE.

So, once he misunderstood "God's Foreknowledge".... he then proceeded to redefine The Cross of Christ, as "partial" "limited" and Pre-Destined", only.

John Calvinism is one of Satan's masterpieces.
 
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CadyandZoe

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The subject at hand is your John Calvinism.
No, the subject at hand is the order of salvation. I have shared much information and passages that speak to the issue. I never quoted Calvin at all. And I would like to encourage you to avoid ad hominem attacks as if to discredit someone who isn't here to defend himself.
 

JBO

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The New Testament describes this several ways: circumcised hearts, ears to hear, eyes to see, enlightened eyes, etc. Paul prays to God concerning new believers in his epistle to the Ephesians.
Speaking of circumcised hearts, read what Paul said about that.

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions (Col 2:9-13).
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What Paul says there is that the circumcision made without hands was accomplished as a result of having been buried with Jesus in baptism and raised up with Him through faith in God. In this we were made alive, reborn, regenerated.

This says and means that without question, it is through faith that we are regenerated. It is faith first, then born again. The ones that are reborn by the Spirit are those who believe.
 

CadyandZoe

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Speaking of circumcised hearts, read what Paul said about that.

For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions (Col 2:9-13).
.
What Paul says there is that the circumcision made without hands was accomplished as a result of having been buried with Jesus in baptism and raised up with Him through faith in God. In this we were made alive, reborn, regenerated.

This says and means that without question, it is through faith that we are regenerated. It is faith first, then born again. The ones that are reborn by the Spirit are those who believe.
My teacher always warned me about prepositions. :) Yes, Paul says that we were raised with him through faith. What did Paul mean by that? What part did our faith play in our being made alive with Christ? And is there a direct correlation between faith and circumcision of the heart? If so, are they coincidental or does one follow the other? I'm not sure Paul answers these questions here. But I am willing to hear your thoughts about it.
 
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Robert Pate

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My teacher always warned me about prepositions. :) Yes, Paul says that we were raised with him through faith. What did Paul mean by that? What part did our faith play in our being made alive with Christ? And is there a direct correlation between faith and circumcision of the heart? If so, are they coincidental or does one follow the other? I'm not sure Paul answers these questions here. But I am willing to hear your thoughts about it.
Jesus was God's new Adam and the representative of the human race. Spiritually, when Jesus lived, we lived in him, because our humanity was constituted in him. When Jesus died, we died with him, Romans 6:6. When Jesus arose, we arose with him. When Jesus ascended into heaven we ascended with him. Our real lives are hidden with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3.
 

CadyandZoe

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Jesus was God's new Adam and the representative of the human race. Spiritually, when Jesus lived, we lived in him, because our humanity was constituted in him. When Jesus died, we died with him, Romans 6:6. When Jesus arose, we arose with him. When Jesus ascended into heaven we ascended with him. Our real lives are hidden with Christ in God, Colossians 3:3.
I'm not sure what you mean by all of that. I know what Paul meant but I'm not sure if you agree with Paul or not.
 

rwb

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Jesus was God's new Adam and the representative of the human race.

I would argue Jesus is the last Adam and representative of every human that turns to Him by grace through faith hearing the Gospel, repenting and believing through the power of God through the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:45 (KJV) And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

John 6:37 (KJV) All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 1:10-13 (KJV) He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
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Ritajanice

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Romans 5:12-19

New International Version

Death Through Adam, Life Through Christ​

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.
15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!
18 Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
 
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CadyandZoe

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I agree with Paul 100%.
Me too.

I must admit that in my previous post, I was taken aback by your choice of words. I may have misinterpreted your statements, but to me, it seemed like you were describing a mystical experience. I may have misunderstood your intended meaning; hence I asked for clarification. :)

Other than attempting to understand you, I have no other point. :)

In my view, when Paul says things like "we ascended together with him" he means to give us the basis for our salvation. He fleshes this out in his epistle to the Hebrews, indicating that as our high priest, Jesus ascended to make intercession for us. He was advocating for us and as our representative, he made an appeal to God's mercy on our behalf. In that sense, we "ascended" with him.
 

Robert Pate

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Me too.

I must admit that in my previous post, I was taken aback by your choice of words. I may have misinterpreted your statements, but to me, it seemed like you were describing a mystical experience. I may have misunderstood your intended meaning; hence I asked for clarification. :)

Other than attempting to understand you, I have no other point. :)

In my view, when Paul says things like "we ascended together with him" he means to give us the basis for our salvation. He fleshes this out in his epistle to the Hebrews, indicating that as our high priest, Jesus ascended to make intercession for us. He was advocating for us and as our representative, he made an appeal to God's mercy on our behalf. In that sense, we "ascended" with him.
Our salvation is sure and secure because it is at the right hand of God in heaven.
 
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