The Original 360 Day Calendar of the Torah, New Moons, and the True Appointed Times of Festivals

[bbyrd009]

Because of the change they noticed over time

that does not work with a 5000 year old earth? ok

 

[liafailrock]

OK, I'll jump in. I heard this theory before that orbital/rotational conditions were once such that there was a supposed exactly 360 day period to one revolution around the sun. Correct me if I am wrong, but this study assumes the orbital motion of the earth around the sun as well as moon around the earth is what changed, (as opposed to the rotational speed of the earth). Correct? Also it assumes the present axial tilt of about 23.5 degrees since seasons are mentioned.

My questions are: Did the orbits change from a circular to elliptical then? And did the moon have the same angle of inclination to the ecliptic or was there always an eclipse? Lastly, what caused this change and when? From what I read it was not clear to me when this happened or why.

 

[Jay Ross]

that does not work with a 5000 year old earth? ok

Sorry, man, but man was created, by my consideration of the Bible chronology, around 6118 years ago or 6018 years ago if you believe that Bishop Ussher got it right, but even Ussher's brother-in-law, Lydiat, knew that the premise of Ussher was wrong and was short in his calculation of the chronology of the Old Testament by 100 years by his reckoning. The beginning of creation, i.e. the start of the first day, was even well before that and could have been double that.

And you are suggesting a 5,000 year old earth? LOL Seems like you are missing a "day" or two in your understanding of the chronology of the Bible.


​

 

[CoreIssue]

http://www.biblechronologytimeline.com/biblechronologytimeline3.html

To make a more complicated a week of years is 7 years.

A day is sunset to sunrise.

Depending on usage, such as day of the lord, a day can last for centuries.

In dealing with long stretches of time no correction for the length of the year was done.

As well the length of our an hour can vary.

But, as with the six days of creation, the time is well defined the sunrise and a sunset was a day.

Any portion of the day constituted a day. Same with a night.

 

[CoreIssue]

Sorry, man, but man was created, by my consideration of the Bible chronology, around 6118 years ago or 6018 years ago if you believe that Bishop Ussher gat it right, but even Ussher's brother-in-law, Lydiat,

knew that the premise of Ussher was wrong and was short in his calculation of the chronology of the Old Testament by 100 years by his reckoning. The beginning of creation, i.e. the start of the first day, was even well before that and could have been double that.

And you are suggesting a 5,000 year old earth? LOL Seems like you are missing a "day" or two in your understanding of the chronology of the Bible.


​

Depends on whether you are a young earth or old earth believer.

I'm an old earth believer who believes in a pre Adamic creation. It is Biblical and scientific.

 

[Jay Ross]

Depends on whether you are a young earth or old earth believer.

I'm an old earth believer who believes in a pre Adamic creation. It is Biblical and scientific.

I find the old and new earth arguments boring and as such, the people behind these arguments also boring. I think I was attempting to be funny with someone who was groping to write something witty but failed.

 

[CoreIssue]

I find the old and new earth arguments boring and as such, the people behind these arguments also boring. I think I was attempting to be funny with someone who was groping to write something witty but failed.

Well, I made no attempt to argue for old earth, just a comment about how time is dealt with in the bible. So how was that boring?

As for time to be witty, not even close to being funny.

If you don't like the discussion of what is said, it is a lot smarter to remain silent.

 

[Jay Ross]

Well, I made no attempt to argue for old earth, just a comment about how time is dealt with in the bible. So how was that boring?

As for time to be witty, not even close to being funny.

If you don't like the discussion of what is said, it is a lot smarter to remain silent.

Not everything is about you or me in any thread. It generally is about misunderstandings.

 

[CoreIssue]

Not everything is about you or me in any thread. It generally is about misunderstandings.

Now you're going off topic.

 

[Heart2Soul]

But, as with the six days of creation, the time is well defined the sunrise and a sunset was a day.

The creation of time started on the 4th day.....
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

 

[CoreIssue]

The creation of time started on the 4th day.....
14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

Not according to the bible


3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Not according to the bible


3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

Dig deeper there is a difference.

 

[CoreIssue]

Dig deeper there is a difference.

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

First Day

 

[Heart2Soul]

3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness he called “night.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

First Day

Keep digging.....you still don't comprehend it.

 

[CoreIssue]

Keep digging.....you still don't comprehend it.

I know what you're trying to say but I posted the verse that identified the first day.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I know what you're trying to say but I posted the verse that identified the first day.

You think "time" began before verse 4...the first light was Him.
The second "lights" (plural) in verse 4 are the sun, moon and stars.

 

[biloqewu]

OK, I'll jump in. I heard this theory before that orbital/rotational conditions were once such that there was a supposed exactly 360 day period to one revolution around the sun. Correct me if I am wrong, but this study assumes the orbital motion of the earth around the sun as well as moon around the earth is what changed, (as opposed to the rotational speed of the earth). Correct? Also it assumes the present axial tilt of about 23.5 degrees since seasons are mentioned.

My questions are: Did the orbits change from a circular to elliptical then? And did the moon have the same angle of inclination to the ecliptic or was there always an eclipse? Lastly, what caused this change and when? From what I read it was not clear to me when this happened or why.

If indeed the rotation of the earth slowed, then there would be less days in the year, not more, so a year with a little over 365 days as it is now is a reflection of a slower orbit, not necessarily a slower rotation. Although, it is possible that in combination with a slower orbit, the earth may indeed also have a slower rotation than before, which would in turn cause a lesser lunation time than if only the orbit slowed (example, 29.5 instead of 29.6), and lesser days in the year than if only the orbit slowed (example, 365.25 instead of 366). There are some writings outside the scriptures that say God deliberately altered these timings to confuse the calendar of man, because of the lawlessness of man. I am persuaded this this may be the truth of what caused the slowing, rather than try to find some other cause, like the flood or the miracle of the sundial written in Isaiah. Also, I do not know if the shape of the orbits changed, nor if the axis of the earth changed either.

 

[liafailrock]

If indeed the rotation of the earth slowed, then there would be less days in the year, not more, so a year with a little over 365 days as it is now is a reflection of a slower orbit, not necessarily a slower rotation. Although, it is possible that in combination with a slower orbit, the earth may indeed also have a slower rotation than before, which would in turn cause a lesser lunation time than if only the orbit slowed (example, 29.5 instead of 29.6), and lesser days in the year than if only the orbit slowed (example, 365.25 instead of 366). There are some writings outside the scriptures that say God deliberately altered these timings to confuse the calendar of man, because of the lawlessness of man. I am persuaded this this may be the truth of what caused the slowing, rather than try to find some other cause, like the flood or the miracle of the sundial written in Isaiah. Also, I do not know if the shape of the orbits changed, nor if the axis of the earth changed either.

Yeah, I'm not sure myself. That's a valid point about God altering the times to confuse the calendar of man. I know that regardless of what motions there are (e.g. 360 vs 365.2422 and 30 days vs 29.530588), God has a calendar and way to reckon time. Man has his way of interpreting God's calendar and needless to say all sorts of theories I read about on several forums or out on the Internet. But regardless of what has (or hasn't) happened, is it fair to say that the day begins at sundown and the month at the first visible crescent of the moon? At least I find that straightforward and scriptural yet it's amazing how many interpretations mankind has come up with something that precise and simple. What I am saying is that this system does not really require calculation, but observation.... thus, it matters not if there's 365.2422 days in a year or an even 360 or 29.530588 or 30 days to a synodic period. There's still a sundown, and the moon still orbits. I have a hunch that if movement did change, it was before the Exodus as the Lord stated this was the beginning of months, thus correcting the Earth's revolution difference and lunar motion with the agricultural cycle. When the barley was at a certain stage, the year began. Again, if we had a 360 day year and 30 day lunar month, there would be no need for leap months. But with the present system, we need them but observational leap months are various. If the barley came out 12 months later, there would not be a leap month. In other words, what I am saying is that the observational system would work for both but because of the crazy numbers for the orbit and lunation, the observational system would require that extra month. It's a "fit" and "solution" to both ways. So no matter what we have, it requires simple obedience to observing the heavens as giant clock hands for the times and seasons.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello,

Time is a funny thing, it is best defined to my knowledge by the definition as, "The length of a period between two non events with respect to the person/entity defining the length of the said period of time being labelled." The question that needs to be answered, is the time period of each day of creation defined within God's timeframe of reference, or within man's timeframe of reference? We are told that the time frame of reference between God's and man's reference frame for time is very different. 2 Peter 3:8 confirms this for us.

2 Peter 3:8: - 8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Genesis account up to the flood also confirms this.

Now in Genesis 1:5 we have: - the period of daylight is called י֔וֹם while the period of daylight and darkness is called י֥וֹם

Now there is, based on what a Hebrew Scholar has told me, a subtle difference in the pronunciation which differentiates between the two occurrences in this verse.

And in Genesis 1:14 we have: - the period of daylight is called הַיּ֖וֹם while the period of daylight and darkness is called וּלְיָמִ֖ים.

The daylight period in the transliterated text in Genesis 1:5 is yō·wm, while in verse 14 it is hay·yō·wm, where I have been told, hay is the equivalent of "the", so that in the Hebrew, there is a different in the word used to describe a "day of creation" and a "day" created on the fourth day of creation for man to use to define time periods by.

Now a day, i.e. a 24 hr period, within man's reference frame is in the transliteral ū·lə·yā·mîm which is very different to the day labelled in the transliteral as yō·wm in verse 4.

The important thing that I get out of this is that we must determine which timeframe of reference is being used in prophecy to have understanding.

How, important is the Jewish calendar with an extra 30 day month added to the duration of the year every 6th year or so such that about every 19 years there is reasonable agreement in the length of the respective 19 year period between both the solar and Jewish based calendars.

The main issue we now have with the chronological time stamps imposed on ancient history is that a rigid 360 day year has been used by Christian scholars to determine Daniel's prophecies time signposts and the time frame for ancient history.

For this reason, the 490 years described in Daniel 9:24 is actually the umber of times the yearly sin sacrifice would be accepted by God as an acceptable sacrifice before it would be changed during the time of Christ's first advent. When did this time period end? It ended at the end of the second age of the existence of the nation of Israel, after which the iniquities of the fathers would be visited upon the fathers of the first two ages would be visited upon their children and their children's children during the third and the fourth ages of this existence. This visitation of the iniquities of the father had everything to do with the nation of Israel's continual idolatrous worship and still does and not as many Christians' claim, with respect to their rejection of Christ. Their continual idolatrous behaviour meant that they had already rejected Christ before he had come, and not rejected him after he had come because they had not been freed from the rule of Rome. Sadly, their focus was on their belief that God had promised them the land of Canaan, whereas the promises to Abraham was that God would give Abraham the whole earth that He would show to him. God intended for Israel to inherit a righteous earth and not the corrupted one after the fall. An earth that had been renewed and made righteous once more.

Sadly, today, many Christians also have their eyes on a physical land as their inheritance whereas they will, if judged to be righteous, also have a part in the inheritance of an earth made righteous again.

It is my view that the years were instigated around a solar calendar from the very beginning and not a 360 day year. How the nation of Israel determined their solar years become irrelevant in the overall scheme of things.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

The creation of time started on the 4th day.....

The MEASUREMENT of time started on day 4. Time began with the first day of creation. The Year of Man (Anno Hominis) started on day 6, and provides the most accurate Bible chronology.

The six days of creation are embedded in the Ten Commandments:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. (Exodus 20:11)