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The Popular False Justification and False Sanctification View Today.

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Bible Highlighter, Jul 3, 2022.

  1. LearningToLetGo

    LearningToLetGo Active Member

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    How do we reconcile the penalty of sin being death with the redefinition of sin to include our thoughts?

    For example:

    "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. " (Matthew 5:27-28)

    This is a pretty tall bar. What does it mean to own up to sins of this nature? Do we confess them to God in prayer? Do we confess them to our fellow Christians? Do we flagellate ourselves? (That last one is a joke, I hope!)
     
  2. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    thats the heart of ths issue there.

    They think of actual temporal sin. They forget. If not for the Mental sin, the temporal sin would never happen apart from the MA sin. Its the MA sins (decide to serve self and not God or others) that defile a person. When we ignore or reject we have it. Thats when we are in danger.
     
  3. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    You just hit the nail on the head.

    Perfection is required. If your not perfect. Then you better seek grace

    The fact is no one is perfect.

    Your works (circumcision, Baptism. Good deeds. Stopping sin, or whatever work you are doing) will not cause God to forgive one sin. Only grace can do that.

    These people focus on the law. God said to come out from the law. And seek grace. And in doing so. Seek to serve and love others.

    Thats the way to sanctification.
     
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  4. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Just remember, Paul taught a works based Gospel. Insert any work, if it is added to the gospel. Paul would claim that gospel is accursed. Because it is a different gospel
     
  5. LearningToLetGo

    LearningToLetGo Active Member

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    I just came across this in my reading. Timing seems appropriate.

    "Paul told the Jews that they were taking the mercy of God as an invitation to sin rather than as an incentive to repentance. it was Heine who made the famous, cynical statement. He was obviously not worrying about the world to come. He was asked why he was so confident, and his answer was, "God will forgive." He was asked why he was so sure of that, and his reply was, "C'est son metier" "It is his trade." Let us think of it in human terms. There are two attitudes to human forgiveness. Suppose a young person does something which is a shame, a sorrow and a heartbreak to his parents, and suppose that in love he is freely forgiven, and the thing is never held against him. He can do one of two things. He can either go and do the same thing again, trading on the fact that he will be forgiven once more; or he can be so moved to wondering gratitude by the free forgiveness that he has received, that he spends his whole life in trying to be worthy of it. It is one of the most shameful things in the world to use love's forgiveness as an excuse to go on sinning." (William Barclay, The Letter to the Romans, The Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 43)
     
  6. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Well-Known Member

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    No. It’s called the Bible.

    1 John 3:7 says:
    “Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.”

    1 John 3:10 says:
    “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”

    You cannot do righteousness if you are also doing evil.

    Ezekiel 18:24 says:
    “But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked mandoeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.”

    Uh, God is judges the righteous and He is angry at the wicked every day.

    Psalms 7:11 says:
    “God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.”
     
  7. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Well-Known Member

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    Paul did not overstep the words of Jesus Christ. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. James says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble (James 4:6). If there is one thing we know about Jesus is that He taught that you have to be fruitful to enter the Kingdom. Just read the Parable of the Talents in Matthew 25 or read John 15 about the vine that did not produce fruit or read about how John the Baptist said that the axe is laid to the fruit of the tree, therefore bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (See: Matthew 3). Even the apostle said in Titus 1:16 that you can deny God by being reprobate unto every good work. But even works will not save you. You need to enter the Sanctification Process (to live a holy life by the power of God) (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13, and Romans 8:13). For believers did works in Christ’s name but it was not enough. Jesus told them to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity (Which is sin) (See: Matthew 7:22-23).
     
  8. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Or the third option, he can forget all about it and seek to love as he was loved. And not make an excuse to sin, or live up to some standard no one can keep.

    when we focus on law or being good, we fail to grasp the true way to freedom

    as John said, we can know we have eternal life, and by it continue in faith
     
  9. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Well-Known Member

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    Things are not as we wish them to be. God had not given believers diplomatic immunity against sin. Period. Jesus taught clearly about how certain sins can keep you out of God’s Kingdom (See Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62). Jesus agreed with the lawyer that we are to love God and love our neighbor as a part of inheriting eternal life in Luke 10:25-28. Most Christians probably skip past these verses quickly (afraid to truly deal with them) or they have twisted these verses to say something that it does not say (to their own destruction). Even the apostle Paul agrees that God’s grace is not diplomatic immunity against sin. Paul says if you live after the flesh, you will die (die spiritually), but if you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally) (See: Romans 8:13).
     
  10. Bible Highlighter

    Bible Highlighter Well-Known Member

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    I am not surprised most here don’t get it. We are living in the last days (2 Timothy 3:1-9). Most today treat sin as if it is no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten. They see how sin can maybe chastise you in this life or how you may lose rewards in Heaven, but lose your salvation? Oh, it can never be that. God loves us to much to send us to hell. Well, I got news for you. Read Matthew 5:28-30, and Galatians 5:19-21, and then Revelation 21:8. Read the last chapter of the Bible.

    Revelation 22:14-15 says:
    “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”
     
  11. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    BH,

    From contextual analysis the last days was for them then, in which the destruction of Jerusalem and the heaven and earth they knew was destroyed when the wrath of God was poured out upon Jesus’s return for his bride in that day in age, but most people don’t believe this is true.
     
  12. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    Look everyone sins, but sin is paid for.

    The problem is that people don’t talk about how when they come to the cross of Christ that is where we go to die, with Christ, and are buried with him in the baptism in his death, and are raised with him to walk in newness of life, spiritual life.

    Spiritual life is life age-during - it is an active relationship with God and learning and growing and allowing him to mold you by the Holy Spirit, that lives within you, it is a two way street.

    Im thankful for what God has done for me, helping me and I give him all the credit cause I would still be the same way I was without him.

    All I use to do was hate people, hate God, hate Jesus, loved all of the darkness the hatred, evil, saying fu** you to mom, and my family…

    At the age of 26 I became a Pharisee I started to believe in Jesus but I was looking around at everyone else saying these people aren’t like me, they don’t pray to God like me, they don’t read the Bible like me…

    My life slowly started changing as I continued in that active relationship of praying to God and eventually he sent me a teacher to teach me the word. Then my life start changing much more to the light and the darkness start to go away not to say it doesn’t still linger or strike or rile it’s nasty head sometimes, that is when going into the prayer closet and talking to God is beneficial to help me to remain lowly to not become prideful, to not become hateful, to abide in Christ and these are the things people may be missing in their life and they have to make the choice to engage this by believing that God is with them, he loves them, and he hears them.

    But it is up to them to make the choice to believe these things are true or not.
     
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  13. Jim B

    Jim B Well-Known Member

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    All sin has been paid for by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. If a person is in Christ their sins have been forgiven -- past, present, and future. Christ is sinless and Christians are in Christ. You don't have to receive forgiveness over and over and over.
     
  14. LearningToLetGo

    LearningToLetGo Active Member

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    Another interesting item from the same book.

    "It is the supreme discovery of the Christian life that we do not need to torture ourselves with a losing battle to earn God's love but rather need to accept in perfect trust the love which God offers to us. True, after that, any man of honour is under the life-long obligation to show himself worthy of that love. But he is no longer a criminal seeking to obey an impossible law; he is a lover offering his all to one who loved him when he did not deserve it." (William Barclay, The Letter to the Romans, The Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 64)

    In a nutshell, first there is grace, then works. However, one works not to ensure (or maintain) grace, but rather out of love for the one true God.
     
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  15. Jim B

    Jim B Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Jesus' death paid for all sin.
     
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  16. Jim B

    Jim B Well-Known Member

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    Great post!
     
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  17. LearningToLetGo

    LearningToLetGo Active Member

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    My last Barclay quote for the day since my brain is fried from all this heavy thinking... ;-D I'm posting this to help myself and others understand the technical meanings of justification and sanctification.

    "Jesus begins by putting sinners into a right relationship with God even when they are still sinners; he goes on, by his grace, to enable them to quit their sin and become good men. There are technical names for these things. The change of our status is justification; that is where the whole saving process begins. The change of our state is sanctification; that is where the saving process goes on, and never ends, until we see him face to face and are like him." (William Barclay, The Letter to the Romans, The Daily Study Bible Series, pp. 77)
     
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  18. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    You dont get it

    Gods people ARE righteous. There is no MAYBE about it

    But they don;t go pumping their chests telling everyone how great they are. And judging the sinner. Jesus came to save the lost. The pharisees were righteous. According to the law. But they failed to see. In Gods standard they were the worse sinners.’

    I see no difference between you and them
     
  19. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    I never said Paul preached against Jesus

    YOU ARE..

    Paul agreed with Jesus. Your twisting pauls words to excuse your own works based Gospel. Paul speaks against you not for you
     
  20. Eternally Grateful

    Eternally Grateful Well-Known Member

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    Your the one who does not get it My friend.

    Your just like the religious in Jesus day, they did not get it either.
     
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