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Do you ever stop to think that you yourself fail the standard you believe is neccessary to be saved? Doesn't it bother you, that you preach a message you cannot live up to in your own life?
Faith in God's promise of a Son is the only thing that can transform a person into a saved child of God in a born again experience. The obedience of righteous behavior has zero effect toward that end. There is no amount of righteous living that can do that.
You wrote:
I dont twist scripture, but you have to understand the context and bring the bible into alignment as one cohesive whole. You cannot do that, for you are limited to randomly quoting the letter with no true understanding of the message the letter contains. And by your wooden literalistic understanding of random scriptures you are condemned, for you cannot live up to what you demand of others
And yet, according to your own belief you commit sin regularly do you not, for you don't even try and obey each and every command of Christ do you. This is what is wrong with christianity. People just preaching a message they don't even try to live up to in their own life. It shuts people out of the kingdom of Heaven. Jesus called it hypocrisy, and he reserved his harshest words for the religious who did it
That is hades sir.
All you do bible highlighter is to woodenly recite the letter without understanding of the message contained it. You insist of others to enter Heaven what you do not even try to do in your own life. That is hypocrisy, and the way of the pharisees of Jesus day. The fact you are limited to only quoting the letter at length, because you understand little of the meat of the word, is no excuse. Every time you post you ignore the second greatest commandment, for there is no love of others in demanding of them what you do not demand of yourself to enter heaven
You can hardly even give an interpretation, you cannot discern that which is written, you can only woodenly quote the letter at random. Paul believed the corinthian church was ''the church of God in Corinth'' They would have failed all your tests to be in a saved state.
1John2:4 basically says that the person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.
Yes. But the part you're not getting is the works that accompany faith in no way make the person righteous. Faith all by itself does that. You become born again by having faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin, all by itself, not by doing works of righteousness.
You seem to understand that a person is born again by faith all by itself, and then the saved person performs works of righteousness. But then you say faith and the works that faith produces are what make a person righteous.
The problem is that you basically make no distinction between faith and works. You seem to wrap both faith and works up in a package and simply stamp "faith" on the package. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit, but according to you, both faith and works are the root of salvation.
Works are the evidence of faith, but not the very essence of faith, so works are separate from faith. Faith is faith and works are works. No contradiction at all.
Yes, SHOW not establish. Big difference.
In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.
I find it interesting that you mentioned 1 Thessalonians 1:3. I was recently in a discussion with a works-salvationist who attends the church of Christ and he was making the same argument about faith and works that you are making. He teaches that we are saved by faith "conjoined" with works and basically makes no distinction between faith and works. Notice the words "work of" faith, "labor of" love and "patience of" hope in 1 Thessalonians 1:3. These are the practical outworking of the Thessalonians' conversion. The "work" the Thessalonians do is a result or consequence of their faith. So too their "labor" flows from love and their "endurance" comes from hope. Work "of" faith does not mean that faith in essence is the work accomplished or that we are saved by works that are produced "out of" faith. Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works. Their work is a result or consequence "of" their faith. The work done is "of" faith or done "out of" faith. Faith was already established at conversion and then the work followed as a result or consequence "of" faith. I've heard other works-salvationists (including Roman Catholics) try to turn work "of" faith into work "is" faith and end up making no distinction between faith and works that follow as a result of faith as well. The end result of course is salvation by faith and works.
Works can only justify us in the sense of being "shown to be righteous." (James 2:14-24) We are justified (accounted as righteous) by faith, not works. (Romans 4:2-6)
"Part" of faith would make them the very essence of faith, which is false. Works are the fruit, by product and demonstrative evidence of faith, but not the essence of faith and not the basis or means by which we obtain salvation.
Faith and works are not one in essence, so they are separate in essence. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. Just as the root from a tree is separate from the fruit that is produced from the nutrients that flow through the root of the tree and produce the fruit.
It doesn't take reading the whole Bible in order to establish faith in Christ for salvation.
The whole Bible is God's word. Faith is faith and the whole Bible is the whole Bible.
I understand perfectly that you confuse faith in Christ for salvation with believing and obeying instructions from the Bible "out of" faith. This is how you end up with salvation by faith and works.
Nobody teaches "works alone" with no faith whatsoever salvation. Circumcision was one stumbling block for the Jews, but it's not the only stumbling block and it's only one work. Romans 4:2 said "if" Abraham was justified by "works" and not merely circumcision. Paul goes on to say that "faith is accounted as righteousness" (vs. 5) and that God imputes righteousness "apart from works." (vs. 6) So there are no works in the equation here.
Not saved by works in general and not only initially, but finally as well. (1 Peter 1:9) Sorry to burst your bubble, but from beginning to end Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption alone and not based on the merits of our works. No boasting for you.
Progressive sanctification is not about working for our salvation, but working out the salvation that we already have in Christ. Denying ungodliness and living righteously and godly in this present world is what we are saved FOR and NOT BY. You have this backwards and the end result is works salvation.
Romans 4:2 is not merely limited to circumcision. Romans 4:2 clearly states that Abraham was NOT justified (accounted as righteous) by works. In James 2:21, we see that Abraham was justified (shown to be righteous) by works and circumcision is not even mentioned. The work of offering up his son Isaac on the altar is the work in view. Elsewhere, Paul clearly stated that it's not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saves us.. (Titus 3:5) and that God saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works.. (2 Timothy 1:9) so it's not merely circumcision, but works in general which includes works of faith. Works of "righteousness" can only be produced "out of" faith. You need to place in JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION and stop trusting in works. You are on very dangerous ground!
For the umpteenth time, "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith or that works are the source of life in faith. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works demonstrates that it's dead. If someone merely says-claims they have faith, but lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith. (James 2:14) It takes a living faith to produce works, (Ephesians 2:5-10) just as it takes a living tree to produce fruit.
Teaching that works are salvific is where we absolutely disagree. We are not saved by works. Period. (Romans 4:5-6; Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9)
We are saved by faith apart from the merit of works, yet authentic faith does not remain alone from the presence of works. This does not make works salvific.
Works only show our faith, but they do not establish it. We are saved by faith at it's origin. Works being the fruit of faith does not make them part of salvation. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. By making works part of salvation, this gives you boasting rights, which is really what tickles your ears. You want credit.
All genuine believers are fruitful, yet not all are equally fruitful. (Matthew 13:23) The thief on the cross died the same day of his conversion and how many works did he accomplish on that cross before his death? He rebuked the other thief and asked Jesus to remember him when he comes into His kingdom, demonstrating his faith in Jesus. That's it. The thief was still saved through faith.
Absolutely false. Making works "part" of faith and salvation means that salvation is by works, which is condemned in scripture. Point, blank, period. Roman Catholics, Mormons, Campbellites and other works-salvationists make the same error that you are making and the end result is salvation by faith (their version of faith) and works. It's a real shame to see so much zeal wasted on unbelief.
Salvation through FAITH ALONE means that we are saved by placing our faith in JESUS CHRIST ALONE FOR SALVATION. The works that follow and are produced "out of" faith are the FRUIT of salvation, BUT NOT THE ROOT OF IT. No contradiction on my part. You just don't get it.
...but not to be born again. And that is the point you are missing.
Works are the evidence of being born again/saved, not the way you are born again/saved. Even when Jesus comes back, your works don't make you a saved person. They show you to be a saved person.
