The Positional Platform

[Episkopos]

Understanding one's position in Christ is not high-mindedness or self-assuredness. It is recognition of the inheritance in Christ secured through the new covenant that each believer has been given, and resting assured that Christ will perform what he has promised. Those who are self-assured in themselves is the real problem.

But that logic works both ways...how can we be secure in ourselves from what we ourselves get from the bible?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

But that logic works both ways...how can we be secure in ourselves from what we ourselves get from the bible?

Christ himself is the security. If we have believed into him, and continue to do so, we are secure.

 

[Episkopos]

Christ himself is the security. If we have believed into him, and continue to do so, we are secure.

Yes...but if we have rewarded ourselves for our proper belief...then we already have our reward now!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Yes...but if we have rewarded ourselves for our proper belief...then we already have our reward now!

He that believes has passed from death into life. So yes, we do have a foretaste of the future, full reward. When a boat is anchored you know it's not drifting away.

That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Hebrews 6:18-19

 

[Episkopos]

He that believes has passed from death into life. So yes, we do have a foretaste of the future, full reward. When a boat is anchored you know it's not drifting away.

That by two immutable things, in which [it was] impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: Which [hope] we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil; Hebrews 6:18-19

So then if you cannot walk in victory over sin with the power that God gives you...then how will you walk before a God who does not tolerate sin?

 

[mjrhealth]

then how will you walk before a God who does not tolerate sin?

Thas why we have Christ, you really have not got a grasp of grace.

Remember David, look at all He did, yet God kept His Promise to Him, it was not about David it was / is all about God. One of the very first things God ever taught me was that, David loved God but He was not perfect", neither am I neither are you, and you will remin so untill we are all changed in teh twinkling of an eye, so get over it, it is not something you can fix, Jesus already done the fixing.

In all His Love

 

[Episkopos]

Thas why we have Christ, you really have not got a grasp of grace.

Remember David, look at all He did, yet God kept His Promise to Him, it was not about David it was / is all about God. One of the very first things God ever taught me was that, David loved God but He was not perfect", neither am I neither are you, and you will remin so untill we are all changed in teh twinkling of an eye, so get over it, it is not something you can fix, Jesus already done the fixing.

In all His Love

My grasp of grace is to abide in Christ. From there we cannot sin. If we wish to sin we must leave that abode..and go to where we are being enticed.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So then if you cannot walk in victory over sin with the power that God gives you...then how will you walk before a God who does not tolerate sin?

That makes no sense in response to my comment.

My grasp of grace is to abide in Christ. From there we cannot sin. If we wish to sin we must leave that abode..and go to where we are being enticed.

mjrhealth is right, you don't understand grace.

 

[Episkopos]

That makes no sense in response to my comment.


mjrhealth is right, you don't understand grace.

I don't believe in the type of grace you have been taught. God is not like men that cover things up. The light exposes...it is darkness that covers things up. I think you may not understand light.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I don't believe in the type of grace you have been taught. God is not like men that cover things up. The light exposes...it is darkness that covers things up. I think you may not understand light.

The only way you are able to come to the light with your sin is because grace covers it.

And above all things have fervent love among yourselves: for love shall cover the multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

 

[Episkopos]

The only way you are able to come to the light with your sin is because grace covers it.

And above all things have fervent love among yourselves: for love shall cover the multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

in order to have more sin...or more of Christ?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

in order to have more sin...or more of Christ?

in order to live

 

[Episkopos]

in order to live

in which power?

 

[mjrhealth]

My grasp of grace is to abide in Christ. From there we cannot sin. If we wish to sin we must leave that abode..and go to where we are being enticed.

You do not understand. Without the revaltion from Christ you will never understand. Even when you abide in Christ you will still sin, it is in the nature of the flesh, but no longer will it condemn you neither will it have any hold on you. If you where abiding in Christ than you would not be here questioning grace for you would be walking in it.

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Jesus was and is the only one that never sinned. Any one who says he does not sin is a liar.

In all His love

 

[Episkopos]

You do not understand. Without the revaltion from Christ you will never understand. Even when you abide in Christ you will still sin, it is in the nature of the flesh, but no longer will it condemn you neither will it have any hold on you. If you where abiding in Christ than you would not be here questioning grace for you would be walking in it.

Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Jesus was and is the only one that never sinned. Any one who says he does not sin is a liar.

In all His love

Should we be concerned with what you consider as abiding in Christ...or what the bible says???


1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

 

[mjrhealth]

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

You still do not get it, and you never will untill you take these things before Jesus, your flesh will always sin, He didnt come to save your flesh The enemy will have your head in a spin over sin because it will keep you in bondage. Jesus died for us because He knew we are not perfect, we cannot perfect ourselves, it is impossible for us to "not" sin, Jesus paid teh price for sin, so you wont get all guilty when you mess up.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Your sins are only covered as long as you dont work and as you said, abide ( rest ) in Him.

In all His Love

 

[Episkopos]

You still do not get it, and you never will untill you take these things before Jesus, your flesh will always sin, He didnt come to save your flesh The enemy will have your head in a spin over sin because it will keep you in bondage. Jesus died for us because He knew we are not perfect, we cannot perfect ourselves, it is impossible for us to "not" sin, Jesus paid teh price for sin, so you wont get all guilty when you mess up.

Rom 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
Rom 4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

Your sins are only covered as long as you dont work and as you said, abide ( rest ) in Him.

In all His Love

Those who walk according to the flesh will always sin. But we have Christ...do we not????

Rom_8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

A born again person has THIS option...to war according to the Spirit. A carnal unregenerate man has only the strength he was born with to contend with the deeds of the flesh.

Gal_5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You do not understand. Without the revaltion from Christ you will never understand. Even when you abide in Christ you will still sin, it is in the nature of the flesh, but no longer will it condemn you neither will it have any hold on you. If you where abiding in Christ than you would not be here questioning grace for you would be walking in it.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Jesus was and is the only one that never sinned. Any one who says he does not sin is a liar.

Should we be concerned with what you consider as abiding in Christ...or what the bible says???
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

I think there is a semantic problem here. Positionally we are in Christ through baptism into his death (what mjrhealth called "abide in Christ" above); yet we must abide in Christ continually through faith and eschewing evil (what E. refers to as 'abiding in Christ'). So there is confusion due to ambiguous terminology

This is the way I see it. E. doesn't believe that believers have an anchored position in Christ apart from their works, whereas mjr believes believers are in Christ because of Christ's work, and maintain that position through faith which produces godly works.

it is impossible for us to "not" sin, Jesus paid teh price for sin, so you wont get all guilty when you mess up.

I think it is unwise to say that it is impossible for us to not sin. I think it is possible, but due to our nature and the world in which we live, it is improbable. What is impossible is us making our nature uncorrupted, and not living with our corrupted nature every day.

 

[Episkopos]

I think there is a semantic problem here. Positionally we are in Christ through baptism into his death (what mjrhealth called "abide in Christ" above); yet we must abide in Christ continually through faith and eschewing evil (what E. refers to as 'abiding in Christ'). So there is confusion due to ambiguous terminology

This is the way I see it. E. doesn't believe that believers have an anchored position in Christ apart from their works, whereas mjr believes believers are in Christ because of Christ's work, and maintain that position through faith which produces godly works.


I think it is unwise to say that it is impossible for us to not sin. I think it is possible, but due to our nature and the world in which we live, it is improbable. What is impossible is us making our nature uncorrupted, and not living with our corrupted nature every day.

Jesus Christ is not a granter of immunity for sinning. He is an Empowerer to not sin. What Jesus did in His earthly life and sacrifice on the cross is meant to overcome the power of sin. We are then to overcome exactly as Jesus did...through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

Anybody can say...see Jesus did it instead of me!!!

Look how great He is!!!

But this has nothing to do with being in Christ. We are not spectators to grace but PARTICIPANTS in the race!!!

I think too many have watched too much TV. The kingdom of God is not a spectator sport!

Those who are Christ's no longer live from the old nature...they now walk in the Spirit.

Gal_5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

 

[Netchaplain]

Should we be concerned with what you consider as abiding in Christ...or what the bible says???


1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

I wanted to share this:

"Sinneth not;" not that he (the believer) has no sin in him, or lives without sin, but he does not live in sin, nor give up himself to a vicious course of life; for this would be inconsistent with his dwelling in Christ and enjoying communion with Him." John Gill

The subject concerning the walk of Christ, which the Apostle John was referring to, is "love", which is in the verses before and after verse 6. If these passages intended being sinless, John would be contradicting himself in 1 John 1:8; "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."