The Power of the Cross

[Jake]

Paul and James were writing to BELIEVERS, that's the key, if we are a believer, then it is for us, too.

The error is reading a cut and paste version of the Bible, put it all together and we have complete version of what a believers life should include. It's a whole and it all fits together perfectly, it's the written word of God!

 

[Prentis]

[sup]30[/sup] Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him, [sup]31[/sup] preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him. (Acts 28)

Paul was also preaching the kingdom, Richard, it is one and the same Gospel.

 

[RichardBurger]

[sup]30[/sup] Then Paul dwelt two whole years in his own rented house, and received all who came to him, [sup]31[/sup] preaching the kingdom of God and teaching the things which concern the Lord Jesus Christ with all confidence, no one forbidding him. (Acts 28)

Paul was also preaching the kingdom, Richard, it is one and the same Gospel.

So you are comfortable with what James said even though he uses gen. 22 instead of 15 and that James said we must show work and Paul does not teach that our works have anything to do with our salvation.

If Abraham had not believed God he would not have left his home country. So which came first, his believing God, or his actions of leaving? He was righteous in the sight of God just because he believed God's promise. Today we are righteous solely because we believe God's promise of salvation thourgh the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. In His works, not ours.

Now let me say that a child of God, born of the Spirit does not want to sin in the flesh and any indication, by others, that they do is judgemental for indicating it because they sin just like the rest of us. The children of God are already saved from this world of sin but he/her still lives in a vile body of sin. However, they look forward to putting off their sinful bodies at their death of the flesh. A person can not make sinful flesh unsinful.

 

[Prentis]

Jesus does not tell us 'trust in my death', he tells us 'follow me'. Paul preaches the same gospel.

Indeed, first we believe, and if we have faith, we will follow Jesus. Jesus is not a scapegoat, but an example to us that we must follow. There is mercy for the merciful, and those who humble themselves. But it is not so that we might sin more. It is that we might turn from our ways and be empowered to be as he is.

Christ was in the flesh, did he sin? Is the flesh more powerful than the Spirit of God? Is it impossible for God to make a man walk by the spirit therefore NOT fulfilling the lusts of the flesh?

 

[Vengle]

Prentice said: "Jesus does not tell us 'trust in my death', he tells us 'follow me'. Paul preaches the same gospel."

If ever a thing was proved in a nut-shell (with the use of few words) there it is!!!

 

[Vengle]

RichardBurger said: "So you are comfortable with what James said even though he uses gen. 22 instead of 15 and that James said we must show work and Paul does not teach that our works have anything to do with our salvation."

Keep it simple Richard. Paul was talking specifically of trying to use the works of that Old Law to justify one's own self. Paul was not talking about not doing the good works that the love of God moves us to do. Paul specifically said many times those good works were necessary but you can't see that because you have your mind blocked by a wrong belief that you for some reason refuse to let go of.

James on the other hand is dealing with just the opposite situation. There were many Jews there in the Roman congregation and they were having a difficult time seeing that they needed to let go of that Old Law mindset of working their way to pleasing God by means of that Old Law. But James was talking to Jews that had already grasped that and had gone to the other extreme, thinking like as you are thinking. You have gone to the other extreme.

That is very human Richard but I beg you to please stop over complicating it for yourself so that you might give yourself a chance to see. We have all been where you are Richard. No one is thinking bad of you for it. It is part of the process for all of us.

All of this speal about James talking to the lost tribes Richard is unnecessary as Paul had Jews that were lost sheep in all of the churches of the Gentiles. The lost sheep of the house of Israel were scattered abroad Richard. James taught not abroad but in Jerusalem. Paul was the one out there abroad reaching those lost sheep and that is what moved those of them to do so who did go to Jerusalem to join the church there. But many if not most stayed right there in those Gentile churches, and why? Because it appealed to them that the Gentiles needed them as the Gentiles needed Paul. That is why many of them through pride ended up preaching a different gospel than Paul which we see he often had to deal with.

No offense intended Richard, but my breath falls out of my body in amazement at some of the ideas I hear Christians espousing. Yet it should not surprise me and I should not wonder how they could read the Bible and not see these things for I used to excel at the same thing. And as I said, we all have gone through that same thing, or at least most of us.

I beg you brother, please give what we are telling you a chance.

 

[RichardBurger]

RichardBurger said: "So you are comfortable with what James said even though he uses gen. 22 instead of 15 and that James said we must show work and Paul does not teach that our works have anything to do with our salvation."

Keep it simple Richard. Paul was talking specifically of trying to use the works of that Old Law to justify one's own self. Paul was not talking about not doing the good works that the love of God moves us to do. Paul specifically said many times those good works were necessary but you can't see that because you have your mind blocked by a wrong belief that you for some reason refuse to let go of.

James on the other hand is dealing with just the opposite situation. There were many Jews there in the Roman congregation and they were having a difficult time seeing that they needed to let go of that Old Law mindset of working their way to pleasing God by means of that Old Law. But James was talking to Jews that had already grasped that and had gone to the other extreme, thinking like as you are thinking. You have gone to the other extreme.

That is very human Richard but I beg you to please stop over complicating it for yourself so that you might give yourself a chance to see. We have all been where you are Richard. No one is thinking bad of you for it. It is part of the process for all of us.

All of this speal about James talking to the lost tribes Richard is unnecessary as Paul had Jews that were lost sheep in all of the churches of the Gentiles. The lost sheep of the house of Israel were scattered abroad Richard. James taught not abroad but in Jerusalem. Paul was the one out there abroad reaching those lost sheep and that is what moved those of them to do so who did go to Jerusalem to join the church there. But many if not most stayed right there in those Gentile churches, and why? Because it appealed to them that the Gentiles needed them as the Gentiles needed Paul. That is why many of them through pride ended up preaching a different gospel than Paul which we see he often had to deal with.

No offense intended Richard, but my breath falls out of my body in amazement at some of the ideas I hear Christians espousing. Yet it should not surprise me and I should not wonder how they could read the Bible and not see these things for I used to excel at the same thing. And as I said, we all have gone through that same thing, or at least most of us.

I beg you brother, please give what we are telling you a chance.

And I beg you to give what I am saying a chance.

No offense intended Vengle, but I am amazed at some of the ideas I hear people espousing on this forum, and others. Yet it should not surprise me and I should not wonder how they could read the Bible and not see these things that I see. For they are there in black and white text in the scriptures and people just won't see them. I am reminded that the words prophesing about Jesus was right there in the scriptures but the Jews failed to see them because they just didn't want to.

Prentice said: "Jesus does not tell us 'trust in my death', he tells us 'follow me'. Paul preaches the same gospel."

If ever a thing was proved in a nut-shell (with the use of few words) there it is!!!

He tells us to place our faith, trust, and confidence in Him.

Proverbs 3:5-6
5 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
6 In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.
NKJV

 

[Vengle]

RichardBurger said: "He tells us to place our faith, trust, and confidence in Him."

That is correct Richard but don't stop there just because it the part that fits what you believe. It also fits what we believe. He told us to do that for a purpose. We are not told to do a single thing that there is not some purpose for our own benefit behind. That purpose is that we would willing listen to him and do all else he tells us to do.
Jesus said, John 13:17 "If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them."

Paul used the following comparison to show us the difference in our change to the New Covenant as compared to the Old Covenant: Romans 2:14 　"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

That is why Paul could say just a few paragraphs later: Romans 3:31 　"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Your teaching makes the Law void through faith.

Paul told us these are the ones that will get eternal life, Romans 2:7 　"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"

Paul said it is death for the disobedient, however: Romans 2:10 　"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"

How can you argue with that when Paul said it applies for both the Jew and the Gentile that they must "worketh good"?

After speaking about the Gentiles who do by nature the things of the Law, Paul continues on to say: Romans 2:15-16 　"in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ."

We will all stand on that day before the judgment seat of Christ Richard and we all be judged the same way. Here is that day and that way Richard:

Revelation 20:13 　"And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
　
In what Paul continues on to say we see the same thought that Jesus expressed when he told the disciples:
Matthew 23:3 　"all things therefore whatsoever they bid you, these do and observe: but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not."

What you are saying is similar Richard. They said and did not do. You bypass it all and say we do not have to do.

You are right about one thing Richard, you said, "they are there in black and white text in the scriptures and people just won't see them"

 

[RichardBurger]

RichardBurger said: "He tells us to place our faith, trust, and confidence in Him."

That is correct Richard but don't stop there just because it the part that fits what you believe. It also fits what we believe. He told us to do that for a purpose. We are not told to do a single thing that there is not some purpose for our own benefit behind. That purpose is that we would willing listen to him and do all else he tells us to do.
Jesus said, John 13:17 "If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them."

Paul used the following comparison to show us the difference in our change to the New Covenant as compared to the Old Covenant: Romans 2:14 　"For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

That is why Paul could say just a few paragraphs later: Romans 3:31 　"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

Your teaching makes the Law void through faith.

Paul told us these are the ones that will get eternal life, Romans 2:7 　"To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:"

Paul said it is death for the disobedient, however: Romans 2:10 　"But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:"

How can you argue with that when Paul said it applies for both the Jew and the Gentile that they must "worketh good"?

After speaking about the Gentiles who do by nature the things of the Law, Paul continues on to say: Romans 2:15-16 　"in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ."

We will all stand on that day before the judgment seat of Christ Richard and we all be judged the same way. Here is that day and that way Richard:

Revelation 20:13 　"And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."
　
In what Paul continues on to say we see the same thought that Jesus expressed when he told the disciples:
Matthew 23:3 　"all things therefore whatsoever they bid you, these do and observe: but do not ye after their works; for they say, and do not."

What you are saying is similar Richard. They said and did not do. You bypass it all and say we do not have to do.

You are right about one thing Richard, you said, "they are there in black and white text in the scriptures and people just won't see them"

All you, and other here, are doing is focused on our keeping a rule of doing good. It is an attempt to put the children of God back under law just as the Judiazers were doing to the early Gentile Christians.

Don't you understand that the children of God DO GOOD, not because they expect to gain from it but because of their new nature of their spirit that has been born of God.

We are not to stress doing good FOR salvation but that is what I see you and many others doing on this forum.

Anyone that is doing good works expecting to gain salvation from them is in fact thinking that God owes them something.

You, and everyone else on this forum, sin just like the rest of us. God said we are all sinners and some here actually think tthey no longer sin. Now if a person says they do not sin any longer they are hypocrites because God said all men sin. Only our spirits that have been born of God do not sin because it has been born of God. But that does not mean we no longer sin in the flesh and will do so until our flesh dies.

What good do you think you are accomplishing by your constant throwing your choice of scriptures at me when you will not listen to the ones I give you? I draw your attention to James 1:1 where it says his letter was written to the Jews, not the Gentiles, and you refuse to hear it. I draw your attention to the fact that Paul, in the scriptures, was the first to be saved under grace and you refuse to hear it.

Do you really think you are so correct that you can teach me? If so you have a ego problem.

 

[Vengle]

RichardBurger says: "We are not to stress doing good FOR salvation but that is what I see you and many others doing on this forum. Anyone that is doing good works expecting to gain salvation from them is in fact thinking that God owes them something."

That is only what you think you hear Richard. And that is because you are playing a word game that has you fooled.

All we have said is that God requires good works of us if we would see salvation. But due to your word game you cannot even understand that to be different from what you are saying.

I feel for you brother.

Romans 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.


We are not saved because of those good works Richard. No one has said that. That is your illusion of what we say.

We are saved by the faith that causes us to listen to God and to love God so that we do obey and do have good works.

I will tell you as James told those he spoke to; You try showing your faith without works if you believe it can be done. But as for me I will show my faith by my works because I choose to listen to and obey the God in whom I put my full trust.

 

[RichardBurger]

Vengle said "All we have said is that God requires good works of us if we would see salvation. But due to your word game you cannot even understand that to be different from what you are saying.

I feel for you brother.

Since you say it is required you are trying to put us under the law of do this for that, do this and I will save you.

Don't feel for me, feel for yourself. You are teaching faith + works and that will not get you into heaven and it will send many to hell and their fate will be on your hands. You, and some others, are boasting of your good works openly and God has said your good works are as filthy as dirty rags. If you want to do good works then preach the freedom that we have in Christ. Boast of the cross by which sinful man can be saved and not in your rule keeping.

Matthew 6:5-6
5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
NKJV
Some get on forums to be seen by men that they are sinless. Since they preach good work it assumed that they do good works, but it is God that judges. Those that have the Holy Spirit do not boast of what they do but in what God has already accomplished on the cross.

But you will not hear it.

 

[Prentis]

The love of God is to do his commands, and his commands are not durdensome.

To put under the law is to bind and say that it is by doing the law you are saved. But what man must do is indeed follow the Lord. If one loves the Lord, he will follow him.

The commands are not burdensome if done out of love, and without the attempt to justify oneself. You are completely right when you say men should not do their works to be seen by men, but you are wrong when you say they shouldn't do those works.

We are not to make a show of prayer, BUT Jesus tells us to indeed pray, in our closet. To think we will make it because of a hope, while not walking in faith today, is false. We must walk by faith, and take hold of the promises.

 

[Vengle]

Amen to your comment Prentis.

Richard does not understand that he has mistaken something else for being "putting ones self back under that Old Law". There is something else that we had better be able to see.if we are truly in Christ. What Richard sees but mistakes for something else is this, as follows:

Romans 3:31 "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law."

The mistake Richard is making is either pretending that he is the reader of hearts so as to know from what origin our works come, or just falsely concluding that to lean into works is wrong. Idle hands is the devil's workshop. That is one good reason why God demands good works from us. Another reason is what Isaiah 48:17,18 tells us.

Now, I admit there is a certain type of situation where we can see that another person's works are not derived of faith. When? Jesus told us when. Jesus told us that is the case when we see a mix of both good works and works of iniquity by that same person. But Richard though aware of Jesus words has failed to grasp the full sense of what Jesus said. Ponder those words for your self:

Matthew 7:20 "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

Instead of seeing the hypocritical mixture of good and bad Richard sees only that their works did not benefit them. And he concludes correctly that it is because they do those works thinking those works will save them. But he misses the fact that this truth is evidenced by the works of iniquity that they also have. And that is the main point of what constitutes trying to be saved by works.

Matthew 7:16 "Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."


I prefer to keep believing, though, that Richard is only about 1 or 2 seconds away from finally grasping this. I see a certain level of understanding peek through in many things he says. I believe he is sincere. And who of us has not been where he is at? It is just a part of our maturing in Christ. Richard is a beloved brother.

 

[Prentis]

Indeed. The whole purpose of the law is that the character of Christ would be built in us. That is what we are here for! Thus it says 'abide in me and I in you'.

The purpose of the commandments the Lord gives us is to do this, to conform us to him. But we do not do it by being under the law, but by following the Lord through faith. Thus we rejoice in all things, knowing that they work this character in us, to be as he is. But if our character is as his, then we will obey the law! That is, love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor.

It is the scheme of men that attempts to make of Paul's message a message that is actually only about the afterlife, that THEN we will be with him, that THEN we will be as he is. But we are called to be so now. Otherwise, we should only rejoice in what profits us now, since nothing in the now can make us like him NOW. But Paul says to rejoice in all things, because all work for our best if we indeed love him. Why do they work for our best? They conform us to him!

 

[RichardBurger]

The love of God is to do his commands, and his commands are not durdensome.

To put under the law is to bind and say that it is by doing the law you are saved. But what man must do is indeed follow the Lord. If one loves the Lord, he will follow him.

The commands are not burdensome if done out of love, and without the attempt to justify oneself. You are completely right when you say men should not do their works to be seen by men, but you are wrong when you say they shouldn't do those works.

We are not to make a show of prayer, BUT Jesus tells us to indeed pray, in our closet. To think we will make it because of a hope, while not walking in faith today, is false. We must walk by faith, and take hold of the promises.

I have never said that man is not to do good works. What I have said is that preaching good works will not save anyone. If all you teach is good works when will other see the cross?

 

[RichardBurger]

Indeed. The whole purpose of the law is that the character of Christ would be built in us. That is what we are here for! Thus it says 'abide in me and I in you'.

The purpose of the commandments the Lord gives us is to do this, to conform us to him. But we do not do it by being under the law, but by following the Lord through faith. Thus we rejoice in all things, knowing that they work this character in us, to be as he is. But if our character is as his, then we will obey the law! That is, love the Lord your God, and love your neighbor.

It is the scheme of men that attempts to make of Paul's message a message that is actually only about the afterlife, that THEN we will be with him, that THEN we will be as he is. But we are called to be so now. Otherwise, we should only rejoice in what profits us now, since nothing in the now can make us like him NOW. But Paul says to rejoice in all things, because all work for our best if we indeed love him. Why do they work for our best? They conform us to him!

It is always ABOUT US isn't it. That is all you preach, US. You boast and you can't even see that you do.

Paul's meassage is that Jesus (God's Son), died on the cross, shed His blood to pay for man's sins and if a person, from their heart, believe it, have faith in it, trust in it, have confidence in it, they are made a child of God at that instant and recieve the Holy Spirit. ------- Now since God has forgiven them their sins and they have been set free of them then they should set their heart on trying to make other men free as well.---- Grace is the message, not works that you can boast of.

When a new person wanting to become a child of God is constanly told they must have good works, they go back under the law of works and it is because of those preaching works. -- The child of God will do good works as directed by the Holy Spirt, not as directed by other men.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):


9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
NKJV


But most on forum rail against me for preaching the grace of God just as they did Paul. I am their enemy because I preach grace and not work just as Paul did. -- The religious want to be seen as sinless and closer to God than others. They have their reward on this earth but not before God.

 

[Prentis]

I have never said that man is not to do good works. What I have said is that preaching good works will not save anyone. If all you teach is good works when will other see the cross?

No, I teach obedience. The cross is to follow Christ, and submit to whatever cross he sends your way. By this, we die, that he may live in us.

Without obedience, the cross is just a symbol, and does not do any work in us. The cross saves us because it destroys the old man. But if we do not have the life of ressurection after, our hope is vain. We are to walk in the power of God now.

Is God weaker than the flesh so that he cannot save us while we are still living here? That he cannot do his will thus? We make God weaker than flesh in these statements. Of course, we are weak, but the Lord promises strength if we trust.

Christ desires to sanctify us and conform us to him NOW, in this life.

 

[Prentis]

It is always ABOUT US isn't it. That is all you preach, US. You boast and you can't even see that you do.

Paul's meassage is that Jesus (God's Son), died on the cross, shed His blood to pay for man's sins and if a person, from their heart, believe it, have faith in it, trust in it, have confidence in it, they are made a child of God at that instant and recieve the Holy Spirit. ------- Now since God has forgiven them their sins and they have been set free of them then they should set their heart on trying to make other men free as well.---- Grace is the message, not works that you can boast of.

When a new person wanting to become a child of God is constanly told they must have good works, they go back under the law of works and it is because of those preaching works. -- The child of God will do good works as directed by the Holy Spirt, not as directed by other men.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):


9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
NKJV


But most on forum rail against me for preaching the grace of God just as they did Paul. I am their enemy because I preach grace and not work just as Paul did. -- The religious want to be seen as sinless and closer to God than others. They have their reward on this earth but not before God.

No. It is always about what God desires to do. But what God desires to do is to be one with us. And to be one with us, we must be obedient and die. Paul spoke much of what WE must do, because we must go after God, we must seek him, we must actively participate in the process of our transformation into a new creation.

I agree we must do what the Lord directs us to do, not other men. But that is exactly what I am saying; we must be obedient.

Christ became the source of salvation to all those who obey him.

Paul preached grace, but grace is the power of God in us to be like Christ. Brother, I want to tell you this with love, grace does not mean what you think it does. Grace travails in us, works in us, to conform us to him, in this life. Paul spoke of the new covenant, in which we do not obey God only by our own strength anymore, but can be clothed with his strength, and walk like he did.

 

[RichardBurger]

No, I teach obedience. The cross is to follow Christ, and submit to whatever cross he sends your way. By this, we die, that he may live in us.

Without obedience, the cross is just a symbol, and does not do any work in us. The cross saves us because it destroys the old man. But if we do not have the life of ressurection after, our hope is vain. We are to walk in the power of God now.

Is God weaker than the flesh so that he cannot save us while we are still living here? That he cannot do his will thus? We make God weaker than flesh in these statements. Of course, we are weak, but the Lord promises strength if we trust.

Christ desires to sanctify us and conform us to him NOW, in this life.

Your obedience is in following a rule of good works (rules are laws). In this age of grace obedience to God is to believe Him, not believe IN Him, but to believe what He says. Jesus said to Paul that since His blood shed on the cross pays for the sins of mankind all that is necessary for a person is to place faith IN IT (the blood). Under grace obedience is to believe the gospel of grace. Obedience is believing God -- having faith in His work on the cross. If we should do anything it is to increase our faith in it.

--- I am completely convinced that Jesus' shed blood on the cross covers my sins of the flesh.

But you say obedience is in a rule of good works (laws) and you preach that if you do not have (in the eyes of others) good works you are not a child of God and, in my opinion that will send many to hell but I see you don't care about that. -- Never once have I read a writing of yours that teaches grace and salvation through the shed blood of Jesus on the cross. It is all about YOU and what you do and not about what Jesus has already done. -- I am sorry that you don't seem to be able to tell others how you were saved. All you can do is say how good you are.

Luke 18:9-14
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector 9 Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others:
10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.
11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself,'God, I thank You that I am not like other men — extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector.
12 I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.'
13 And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, 'God, be merciful to me a sinner!'
14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
NKJV
The scriptures never tell us that the tax collector quit his job or never sinned again. But he was justified before God and the selfrighteous person wasn't. Do the math.

 

[Prentis]

1 Corinthians 11[sup]1[/sup]Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

We are not just to believe what he says, but to be followers and imitators of him. We are to be transformed in his likeness.

[sup]1[/sup] I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. [sup]2[/sup] And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

We are to present ourselves as a living sacrifice to God. If we believe his word, we will do so. We must run after him. Christ is always moving, and to be safe and in him, we must always be following.

Is it self righteous to say that, by his mercy he has called us, and now by his grace we must run the race set before us? Then if as the brothers of David, you claim a man arrogant because he has faith, let me be called arrogant for this.

What is impossible with men is indeed possible with God.

Brother, it is not about having good works in the eyes of others, it is about being obedient. You mistake my saying we must obey him with the idea that I judge people and say they don't obey him! I do not judge man, but God does require obedience, and that I am willing to declare. It must be the desire of our hearts to be conformed to him.

Understand also, brother, that there are two things we should not mistake.

We should not mistake zeal for the Lord with arrogance. Yes, zealous people often become arrogant, I have been zealous, and I have been arrogant. But that is because they have much to learn, not because they are necessarily wrong.

We should also not mistake believing that Christ's sacrifice is the only thing that saves a man with humility. Some believe this and yet are not humble.

Humility is to be found in the very fact that we have not arrive or attained, and have a race to run. It comes in understanding we need help from the Lord, and that nothing good lies in us, so we need to walk by the new creation, that is, Christ in us.