The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: The Blessed Hope of the Saints

[Dave Watchman]

To All,

It seems to me that sometimes Church Doctrines drives our Scriptures, rather than the other way around. And so when we have a "Doctrinal Truth", we skew Scripture to justify it. But if Scripture (rather than the Doctrine) is the basis, then we should find:

1. The DEAD must rise before the LIVING.
2. The DEAD are not raised until AFTER the Millennial Kingdom. (Rev. 20)
3. At the end of the Millennial Kingdom Jesus and those who are alive and remain shall be caught up to be with the LORD forever in the air in the New Jerusalem.​

But more importantly, if people ignore Lke 22:36, because they have an "escape plan", -- what happens WHEN (not "if") it FAILS? Will they be given FREE SHOWERS, or will they be able to endure and survive until Jesus returns?

And I won't presume to decide for anyone else, but I'm working to provide for my family during those days when we FIRST must leave the cities (Rev. 18:4); can't buy or sell; will endure a Global Thermonuclear War; and then see Jesus Return! :)


So make your decisions, but as the "old Knight" suggested in the movie: Choose Wisely, not Poorly.
Bobby Jo

Yikes.

Now I see why the things I say look strange to you.

Are you Amil?

There was another member on here who said something like: "nobody gets eternal life until AFTER the thousand years are finished".

1. The DEAD must rise before the LIVING.

Yes. But this all takes place after the bad part of the tribulation. Concerning the appearing of our Lord and our being gathered to Him. And that's BEFORE the thousand years begin.

Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.

"Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.​

2. The DEAD are not raised until AFTER the Millennial Kingdom. (Rev. 20)

Yes. But these are the rest of the dead. Dead men walking across the broad plain of the earth. These are the lost, only raised for the purpose of judgement day. Not for eternal life.

"The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.​

Only to be thrown into the lake of fire:

"And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven and consumed them, and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were,​

3. At the end of the Millennial Kingdom Jesus and those who are alive and remain shall be caught up to be with the LORD forever in the air in the New Jerusalem.

At the end of the Millennial Kingdom we come back to Earth WITH New Jerusalem when, after judgement day, Jesus makes the Earth new again.

"And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

“Come, I will show you the Bride, the wife of the Lamb.” And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great, high mountain, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God,
​

When all this takes place, none of God's People will be disappointed.

"They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

"This is the first resurrection.

"Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection!​

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Can I ask you a serious question? For the record I believe in a pre wrath rapture.
What Most people who believe in the pre-trib rapture say is that Revelation was written for Israel and points to the time of Jacob's trouble, Yet if one studies the Book of revelation it mentions Israel only twice, Both times with regard to the 144K of the 12 tribes. Also the Revelation is addressed to the 7 Churches, and there are numerous passages that allude to the rapture throughout the book, not Just Revelation 4 as most pre tribbers see it, But also Revelation 7, 10, 12, 14, etc. Thoughts?

My understanding of this is that Revelation is not a linear vision, but rather a series of overlapping visions, each discussing a different aspect of these end times, And the Only timeline that matters is the one that Jesus Gave us at the Olivet discourse (Matt. 24, Luke 21, Mark 13), Where the rapture is clearly shown after the time of the abomination of desolation, and concurrent with the same events as the sixth seal and trumpet.

To accuse someone of this being from Satan shows arrogance of ones own understanding. Not to mention the divisiveness it Brings. The Pre trib rapture allows the reader to ignore the warnings of the entire book of revelation and with it the blessings it brings us as clearly promised to those who keep the words of the prophecy Because they are said to apply to Israel. This I believe is where the pre-trib rapture falls flat on its face, though I do not call the people who believe this servants of Satan or anything like that, Just unrealistic. I Was raised in, and go to a church that teaches the pre-trib rapture, I Disagree with them and we discuss this but no one is calling the other as being of Satan. What you Believe in regards to the rapture, whether you are pre, post or mid trib or even if you are preterist, is not a test of the Spirit. There are brothers and sisters in Christ on all sides of this debate.

Marvin Rosenthal popularized a "pre-wrath" rapture position. After He published His book, I sent hom a 60 page rebuttal of his hypothesis.

the 7 letters are addressed to the 7 churches. That is all! A careful reading shows that any other conclusion is grammatically impossibnle. god is a grammatician.

There is very very little written about the rapture, so each passage carries much wait.

Paul in Thess. promised the church would be delivered from the wrath to come. Now when we study the OT passages concerning the end times and teh NT passages it is called a time of wrath. The lake of fire is never called "wrath". So the only conclusion we can draw is a pre trib rapture.

Israel is mentioned many times. As well as tribulation saints.

 

[Keraz]

There was another member on here who said something like: "nobody gets eternal life until AFTER the thousand years are finished".

And nobody was able to refute me.
Because that is the Bible truth and no amount of postulation and opinion can prove that anyone receives Eternal Lif before the Book of Life is opened; which happens at the GWR Judgement after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

 

[Ronald Nolette]

And nobody was able to refute me.
Because that is the Bible truth and no amount of postulation and opinion can prove that anyone receives Eternal Lif before the Book of Life is opened; which happens at the GWR Judgement after the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

I guess my name is nobody because I certainly refuted your positions in other threads!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days.

"Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Your mistake is that you make this the church, when it is not.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17
King James Version

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We have on angel here, in Matt. it is angels plural!

In thess the saints are CAUGHT UP while in Matthew they are gathered and Matt. 25 shows they are gathered before the Lord who is returned!
Matt. 24 he comes in glory
Matt. 25 He is enthroned in glory!

YOu also forget that in REv. 19 that the church is in heaven prior to Jesus' return so we can Jesus and be His bride! So the elect of Matt.24&25 are a different group of saints!