Shalom, jeffweeder.
Hi
1Tim 4
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,......
Matt 24
“Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. [sup]10 [/sup]At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. [sup]11 [/sup]Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. [sup]12 [/sup]Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. [sup]13 [/sup]But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved. [sup]14 [/sup]This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations, and then the end will come.
1Jn 2
Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. [sup]19 [/sup]They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
I wouldnt consider myself or anyone else an expert, far from it. I do like to share my thoughts. B)
These are rather unfortunate translations of 1 Timothy 4:1 and Matthew 24:10. To say "fall away" is rather like someone saying they "fell in love" with someone, or rather "fell out of love" with someone, or "fell into sin." To say "fell in" or "fell out" or "fell into" is to suggest that the move was an ACCIDENT; that it wasn't really the person's fault. That's NOT being honest! If one is to "enter into a love relationship" with someone, it is a CONSCIOUS DECISION, just as it is a CONSCIOUS DECISION to step out of the relationship or to sin against God. The word in 1 Timothy 4:1 so translated in the American Standard Version and the New American Standard Version is the Greek word "
aposteesontai." It means "shall remove," "shall instigate a revolt," "shall desist," or "shall desert." I believe the best choice for this passage is "shall desert." Literally, it means "shall stand off" or "shall stand away," like we use the compound word "stand-offish."
NT:868 aphisteemi (af-is'-tay-mee); frm NT:575 and NT:2476; to remove, i.e. (actively) instigate to revolt; usually (reflexively) to desist, desert, etc.:
KJV - depart, draw (fall) away, refrain, withdrawself.
NT:575 apo (apo'); a primary particle; "off," i.e. away (from something near), in various senses (of place, time, or relation; literal or figurative):
KJV - (X here-) after, ago, at, because of, before, by (the space of), for (-th), from, in, (out) of, off, (up-) on (-ce), since, with. In composition (as a prefix) it usually denotes separation, departure, cessation, completion, reversal, etc.
NT:2476 histeemi (his'-tay-mee); a prolonged form of a primary staoo (stah'-o) (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively):
KJV - abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare NT:5087.
(Biblesoft's New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright © 1994, 2003, 2006 Biblesoft, Inc. and International Bible Translators, Inc.)
Let's look at a few other translations:
1 Timothy 4:1
4:1 The Spirit expressly states that in the acharit-hayamim some people will apostatize from the faith by paying attention to deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
CJB
1 Timothy 4:1
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
NIV
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
KJV
1 Timothy 4:1
1 But the Spirit speaks expressly, that in latter times some shall apostatise from the faith, giving their mind to deceiving spirits and teachings of demons
Darby
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit manifestly saith, that in the last times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to spirits of error, and doctrines of devils,
Douay-Rheims
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
ESV
1 Timothy 4:1
1 But the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some in the church will turn away from Christ and become eager followers of teachers with devil-inspired ideas.
TLB
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Holy Spirit clearly says that in the later times some people will stop believing the faith. They will follow spirits that lie and teachings of demons.
NCV
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons;
Webster
1 Timothy 4:1
1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
RSV
1 Timothy 4:1
1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
TNIV
These are much more honest versions IN THIS PARTICULAR VERSE.
Now let's look at Matthew 24:9-14:
Matthew 24:9-14
9 At that time you will be arrested and handed over to be punished and put to death, and all peoples will hate you because of me. 10 At that time many will be trapped into betraying and hating each other, 11 many false prophets will appear and fool many people; 12 and many people’s love will grow cold because of increased distance from Torah. 13 But whoever holds out till the end will be delivered. 14 And this Good News about the Kingdom will be announced throughout the whole world as a witness to all the Goyim. It is then that the end will come.
CJB
Matthew 24:9-149 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
NIV
Matthew 24:9-14
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
KJV
Matthew 24:9-14
9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
NKJV
Matthew 24:9-14
9 Then shall they deliver you up to tribulation, and shall kill you; and ye will be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.
10 And then will many be offended, and will deliver one another up, and hate one another;
11 and many false prophets shall arise and shall mislead many;
12 and because lawlessness shall prevail, the love of the most shall grow cold;
13 but he that has endured to the end, he shall be saved.
14 And these glad tidings of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole habitable earth, for a witness to all the nations, and then shall come the end.
Darby
Matthew 24:9-14
9 “Then people will hand you over to be treated badly and killed. All nations will hate you because of me. 10 At that time, many will turn away from their faith. They will hate each other. They will hand each other over to their enemies. 11 Many false prophets will appear. They will fool many people. 12 Because evil will grow, most people’s love will grow cold. 13 But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 This good news of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world. It will be a witness to all nations. Then the end will come.
NIrV
Matthew 24:9-14
9 Then will they deliver you up to be afflicted, and will kill you: and ye will be hated by all nations for my name's sake.
10 And then will many be offended, and will betray one another, and will hate one another.
11 And many false prophets will rise, and will deceive many.
12 And because iniquity will abound, the love of many will become cold.
13 But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world, for a testimony to all nations; and then shall the end come.
Webster
Matthew 24:9-14
9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but whoever stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
TNIV
As long as one takes into account the original meaning of being "offended," that is, "given no choice but to offend," these versions are all more honest than the version originally quoted. Now, in these particular verses in these particular versions, notice the words "you" and "ye" in verse 9. Yeshua` (Jesus) was talking DIRECTLY to His students listening to Him right there on that mountain side! Although verses 10 through 14 begin to stray into the distant future, at least verse 9 and I believe much of verses 10 and 11 begin in the first century.
So these verses are NOT talking about the future; they are talking about the PAST! Only part of verse 11 and verses 12-14 are talking about the future! "At that time" in verse 10 is talking about the time when the people to whom Yeshua` was addressing as "you" were still around! Finally, 1 John 2:18-19 will be discussed in another post.
Shalom, again, jeffweeder.
For these next verses, I'm going directly to the Greek:
1 John 2:18-19
18 Paidia, eschatee hoora estin, kai kathoos eekousate hoti antichristos erchetai, kai nun antichristoi polloi gegonasin, hothen ginooskomen hoti eschatee hoora estin.
19 Ex heemoon exeelthan all' ouk eesan ex heemoon; ei gar ex heemoon eesan, memeneekeisan an meth' heemoon; all' hina faneroothoosin hoti ouk eisin pantes ex heemoon.
Greek New Testament
18 Paidia, = 18 Children/Toddlers,
eschatee = a-last
hoora = hour/time
estin, = it-is,
kai = and
kathoos = like/as
eekousate = you-have-heard
hoti = that
antichristos = one-opposed-to-the-Messiah
erchetai, = shall-come,
kai = and
nun = now
antichristoi = ones-opposed-to-the-Messiah
polloi = many
gegonasin, = are-present,
hothen = by-which
ginooskomen = we-know
hoti = that
eschatee = a-last
hoora = hour/time
estin. = it-is.
19 Ex = 19 Out-from
heemoon = us
exeelthan = they-issued
all' = but
ouk = not
eesan = they-were
ex = out-from
heemoon; = us;
ei = if
gar = for
ex = out-from
heemoon = us
eesan, = they-were,
memeneekeisan = they-have-stayed
an = would/wanted/wished
meth' (meta) = with
heemoon; = us;
all' = but
hina = so-that
faneroothoosin = they-might-be-exposed
hoti = that
ouk = not
eisin = they-were
pantes = all
ex = out-from
heemoon. = us.
18 Children, a-last hour/time it-is, and like/as you-have-heard that one-opposed-to-the-Messiah shall-come, and now ones-opposed-to-the-Messiah many are-present, by-which we-know that a-last hour/time it-is.
19 Out-from us they-departed but not they-were out-from us; if for out-from us they-were, they-have-stayed would/wanted/wished with us; but so-that they-might-be-exposed that not they-were all out-from us.
18 Children, it's a last hour, and as you have heard that one opposed to the Messiah shall come, even now many opposed to the Messiah are present, by which we know that it is a last hour.
19 They issued out from us but they were not [sent] out from us; for if they were [sent] out from us, they would have wanted to stay with us; but [it was] so that they might be exposed that they all were not [sent] out from us.
There is a crucial message embedded within these verses found in the word "
antichristos": Knowing that "
Christos," shortened to "Christ" in English transliteration, means the same as the Hebrew word "
Mashiach," transliterated into English as "Messiah," the question becomes this: Do we today REALLY KNOW what a Hebrew-speaking person in Yeshua`s day meant when he used the word "
Mashiach?" For that matter, do we really even know what a Greek-speaking person in Yeshua`s century meant when he used the word "
Christos?" What did it mean for them to say that Yeshua` was the "
Mashiach?" I submit to you that most believers today don't mean the same thing when they use the word "Christ."
I'm going to stop here for now and start a new thread. I believe that this is a crucial issue that very much must be discussed if one is going to understand prophecy, but it really doesn't belong here,
per se.