The problem with the Bible alone!

[LTJMP14]

What do Indulgences or Sacraments have to do with money?

Let's see how smart - or dense you are . . .

Are you denying that your roman catholic church sold Indulgences with a promise that if you paid more for them you'd have a greater guarantee of absolution?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Tell me, what denomination was Jesus Christ? It is Jesus whom I follow, not a man whose ring its followers must kiss.

So, you won't tell me.
Just as I thought - ALL of you guys are too cowardly to answer even a simple question because you know I'll expose you.

Sooooo, you can't even tell me if you're a Christian or not??
Deny Christ before men - and HE will deny YOU before the Father (Matt. 10:33) . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Are you denying that your roman catholic church sold Indulgences with a promise that if you paid more for them you'd have a greater guarantee of absolution?

Absolutely.

The Church NEVEER sold Indulgences. This was NEVER sanctioned by the Church.
It was an ABUSE by some in the Church to raise money. Men like Johann Tetzel in Germany - whom Luther knew well.

Your ignorance of history is almost as pathetic as your refusal to publicly profess Christ . . .

 

[LTJMP14]

Absolutely.

The Church NEVEER sold Indulgences. This was NEVER sanctioned by the Church.
It was an ABUSE by some in the Church to raise money. Men like Johann Tetzel in Germany - whom Luther knew well.

Your ignorance of history is almost as pathetic as your refusal to publicly profess Christ . . .

Of course a liar will simply lie to cover the last lie and ad infinitum lie that he ever lied.

I'm not calling you a liar, but you must have skipped over Leo X in your studies. You know. Giovanni di Lorenzo de' Medici, the man who approved the sale of Indulgences to help maintain his lavish lifestyle and to build the oh so spectacular St. Peter's Basilica. Giving you a pas on that one.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Of course a liar will simply lie to cover the last lie and ad infinitum lie that he ever lied.

I'm not calling you a liar, but you must have skipped over Leo X in your studies. You know. Giovanni di Lorenzo de' Medici, the man who approved the sale of Indulgences to help maintain his lavish lifestyle and to build the oh so spectacular St. Peter's Basilica. Giving you a pas on that one.

Then PRODUCE the Document, Declaration or Decree that promulgated this SALE of Indulgences.
Give me the excerpt from that document that commanded the SELLING of Indulgences.

You can't do it because it NEVER happened.
So, be very careful about WHO you accuse of "lying" - when it's YOU who is guilty . . .

 

[theefaith]

It is what Paul Said Inspired by the Holy Ghost.... Thus the Word of God. Jesus said "I will Build My Church".

Have you ever done a study on the Three wills? The will of the flesh, the will of man and the Will of God?

A lot of what is done in the church, whether Catholic, or Protestant is done of the will of man not of the will of God.

Jn 15:1-5

Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ,

 

[theefaith]

Seeing that the RCC didn't exist yet, Paul was definitely not referring to it. A religious organisation that has no comparison with the church of the New Testament can't in any way be the pillar and ground of the truth. Instead it is just a snake pit of fraud and lies.

So what is?

 

[LTJMP14]

Then PRODUCE the Document, Declaration or Decree that promulgated this SALE of Indulgences.
Give me the excerpt from that document that commanded the SELLING of Indulgences.

You can't do it because it NEVER happened.
So, be very careful about WHO you accuse of "lying" - when it's YOU who is guilty . . .

You can live in denial, but it's true: Leo X sold Indulgences to suit himself and his lifestyle and for construction costs of the Basilica. I don't have access to the the great Vat library of the Holy See, and their online digital format can't be trusted as containing EVERY document in their possession. Now, if the vatican was truly transparent, it would have done all it could to purge the Roman church of all pedophile and homosexual priests and brothers long ago. Today, it's still a snails pace for the Roman church to fully disclose and admit publicly the vast abhorrent sexually perverted behavior and centuries of cover-up to protect the guilty.

 

[theefaith]

They are slaves to their institution while they openly disobey God. They faithfully obey "mother" while trampling upon the truth and the revelations of Father. They boast of their faithfulness to defend "mother", all the while murdering and persecuting those who defend the Father.
"In vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the precepts of men".

DISAGREE -
* A FALSE Claim and Projection.
* OP, has Falsely claimed...Reliance ONLY on the Written Word of God...
IS EXPRESSLY...FOR A MEANS:
TO IGNORE...

Creeds
Councils
Dogma
Decrees of Apostles Teaching!!!!

UTTER NONSENSE!!!

The Written Word of God...
IS EXPRESSLY...FOR A MEANS
TO VERIFY...

ANY ACTS OF ANY MAN IS ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD OR NOT!

According to you’re personal interpretation?

 

[theefaith]

DISAGREE -
* A FALSE Claim and Projection.
* OP, has Falsely claimed...Reliance ONLY on the Written Word of God...
IS EXPRESSLY...FOR A MEANS:
TO IGNORE...

Creeds
Councils
Dogma
Decrees of Apostles Teaching!!!!

UTTER NONSENSE!!!

The Written Word of God...
IS EXPRESSLY...FOR A MEANS
TO VERIFY...

ANY ACTS OF ANY MAN IS ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF GOD OR NOT!

you’re rejecting Christ and His words

Matt 16:17-19

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.


Matthew 18:17
And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

It is a thing unthinkable! To refuse to hear the church is to refuse to hear Christ!
Christ and His church are one. Acts 9:4

 

[theefaith]

Your COMPLAINING ISSUE is Documented.

What is NOT DOCUMENTED is:
So, a group of men gather...have a council, discuss, decide this decree, that decree, this dogma, that dogma....
SHALL BE declared and TAUGHT.

DO YOU, simply say, okie dokie, and do what they say?

OR DO YOU VERIFY WHAT they DECIDE and TEACH IS ACCORDING TO Gods Word?

TWO SIMPLE yes or no QUESTIONS...
CAN YOU answer...WHAT YOU DO, Honestly?

what they decree or define is equal to scripture

 

[theefaith]

Scripture and tradition (the teaching authority of the apostles) acts 2:42

 

[BreadOfLife]

You can live in denial, but it's true: Leo X sold Indulgences to suit himself and his lifestyle and for construction costs of the Basilica. I don't have access to the the great Vat library of the Holy See, and their online digital format can't be trusted as containing EVERY document in their possession. Now, if the vatican was truly transparent, it would have done all it could to purge the Roman church of all pedophile and homosexual priests and brothers long ago. Today, it's still a snails pace for the Roman church to fully disclose and admit publicly the vast abhorrent sexually perverted behavior and centuries of cover-up to protect the guilty.

Just as I thought - another FALSE accusation with ZERO historical evidence.
MY Bible calls that bearing "FALSE witness" (Exod. 20:16) - which is prohibited by God.

Either you produce the evidence - or simply admit that you LIED.

Just another empty barrel making a LOT of noise . . .

 

[theefaith]

If we still had apostles, like you said they would still have the same mission, power, and authority, you basically answered your own question. While it would be nice to have them, the closest we have is the faithful slave, and while they do an excellent job of feeding us spiritually, they certainly cannot cure our sicknesses, nor raise us from the dead. The great news is that soon the Kingdom is coming, it is already established in the heavens, then to the greatest degree you will see the powers they had on a grand scale. Pray for that Kingdom to come is what we can do now.

the kingdom came 2000 yrs ago
Christ is king

Christ is King of Glory!

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Matt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

The new covenant church is the kingdom
The new heaven and earth the new or heavenly Jerusalem “our mother”!

holy mother church!

 

[theefaith]

If we still had apostles, like you said they would still have the same mission, power, and authority, you basically answered your own question. While it would be nice to have them, the closest we have is the faithful slave, and while they do an excellent job of feeding us spiritually, they certainly cannot cure our sicknesses, nor raise us from the dead. The great news is that soon the Kingdom is coming, it is already established in the heavens, then to the greatest degree you will see the powers they had on a grand scale. Pray for that Kingdom to come is what we can do now.

If we don’t have the successors of Peter and the apostles then there is no church no sacraments no grace no salvation no teaching without error no baptism of disciples

matt 28:19 behold (miracle) I am with you (apostles) to the end!
Still have apostles!

 

[theefaith]

I think I understand how shameful it must be for you to admit you are a member of the Roman catholic church knowing its history of pedophilia, rampant homosexuality, complicity with hitlers regime, murders of hundreds of thousands who spoke out against it, murderous crusades, murderous inquisition, and on and on...

You assume too much: I'm not a protestant.

The union of the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is such that it cannot be harmed by the sins of men!

Automatic excommunication is incured upon the exercise of the intellect and will to teach error or Hersey or to commit grave sin!

So the bride is spotless and without blemish!

The members of Christ in communion with God and each other are in a state of sanctifying grace!

We deplore the sins and outrages of abuse, most of which is done by homo’s on young boys, in any group especially those calling themselves Christian, the communists began infiltration in the seminary’s in the 30’s and the modernist’s and homo’s in the 60’s and 70’s, but no church teaches them to do these things so you cannot blame the church!

This is a symptom of error and Hersey
Modernism or theological liberalism, of the modern apostasy and nowhere does the true church teach anyone to do these things, nor do the Protestant sects which have the same issues!

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

 

[theefaith]

Indulgences? Not again.

I said it was a typo

only in the church

and indulgences have nothing to do with the forgiveness of sin (mercy)

 

[LTJMP14]

Just as I thought - another FALSE accusation with ZERO historical evidence.
MY Bible calls that bearing "FALSE witness" (Exod. 20:16) - which is prohibited by God.

Either you produce the evidence - or simply admit that you LIED.

Just another empty barrel making a LOT of noise . . .

And you are just another lock-step Roman catholic whose fealty is to pope first, Roman church second, Mary third, and I'm not even sure where you put Christ.

 

[Wrangler]

neither were apostles

Changing the goal posts.

The point is about authority. Jesus did not have authority because someone said he did. The proof is in the pudding. He demonstrated his authority by performing miracles. And he demonstrated who he gave authority to by the same token; they too performed miracles. These are the Apostles.

When the 2nd Coming of Christ comes, we will know it, not because someone said he is back but by the miracles, wonders and signs. The proof is in the pudding and it aint in the Catholic Church.

Sadly, the more you claim to have authority over others, the weaker you are shown to be. By all means, carry on.

 

[LTJMP14]

The union of the holy church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles is such that it cannot be harmed by the sins of men!

Automatic excommunication is incured upon the exercise of the intellect and will to teach error or Hersey or to commit grave sin!

So the bride is spotless and without blemish!

The members of Christ in communion with God and each other are in a state of sanctifying grace!

We deplore the sins and outrages of abuse, most of which is done by homo’s on young boys, in any group especially those calling themselves Christian, the communists began infiltration in the seminary’s in the 30’s and the modernist’s and homo’s in the 60’s and 70’s, but no church teaches them to do these things so you cannot blame the church!

This is a symptom of error and Hersey
Modernism or theological liberalism, of the modern apostasy and nowhere does the true church teach anyone to do these things, nor do the Protestant sects which have the same issues!

Philippians 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Except Peter is not the first pope. Peter is a stone (petros: masculine; a small, movable, shifting, rolling stone), but Christ built HIS church on the rock (petra: feminie; a massive, large, immovable stone), which is Christ and faith in the revelation that Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God.