The Problem With The Trinity

[gadar perets]

The meat you offer is foul.

Then don't eat what I have to offer. Remain in your ignorance.

 

[Episkopos]

How is it that you can judge my heart? You claim I keep the law to be righteous and I claim I keep the law because I love YHWH and do not want to sin. I claim my righteousness comes by faith in and of Yeshua. You do the work of Satan to falsely accuse people.

This is a sham. You are the one accusing others of being lawless for not seeking to follow law. That is what I'm disagreeing with in your attitude. I also don't think that we are to follow law...by trying hard.

So you are going 2 steps in the wrong direction.

If you stopped accusing others of doing what is actually the right thing to do....and just be happy to follow who you think God is....there would be no problem.

 

[gadar perets]

This is a sham. You are the one accusing others of being lawless for not seeking to follow law. That is what I'm disagreeing with in your attitude. I also don't think that we are to follow law...by trying hard.

So you are going 2 steps in the wrong direction.

If you stopped accusing others of doing what is actually the right thing to do....and just be happy to follow who you think God is....there would be no problem.

Let's face it Episkopos, all you have done for the last several pages of posts is attack me personally. Why? Because you cannot refute my views of Scripture.

It is the right thing to do to break YHWH's laws??? Where do you come up with this stuff??

 

[justbyfaith]

We have digressed from the topic of the thread.

For those who will receive it, 1 Timothy 4:1-6, Mark 7:15-19, Luke 11:41, and Romans 14:14 go together; and I don't think that @gadar perets can answer all of them together as they apply to each other.

Maybe he can pick them apart as they exist on their own; but he cannot take them together as a whole as they apply to each other and refute them as they exist together as parallel passages.

It is a doctrine of demons to command to abstain from meats that God has created to be received with thanksgiving. Every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused because it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I myself try to obey the food laws and teach that they ought to be obeyed by the more mature believers for the sake of not stumbling the weaker Jewish brother. But I take issue when the same weaker brother tries to impose his scruples on Gentile Christians who are not under the law because they are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

Everyone is at a different place in their walk and God is able to make the Gentile believer stand if he decides to eat pork, shellfish or whatnot. To his own Master he stands or falls; and @gadar perets, you are not the Lord and Master of Gentile Christians, Jesus is.

 

[Episkopos]

Let's face it Episkopos, all you have done for the last several pages of posts is attack me personally. Why? Because you cannot refute my views of Scripture.

It is the right thing to do to break YHWH's laws??? Where do you come up with this stuff??

You are twisting things. When you seek to be justified by the law....you are indebted to do the whole law.


Love fulfills the law. If I visit a neighbour...do I think...I mustn't steal. I mustn't steal? Or does love not consider stealing at all....but rather giving. So then love eliminates the need to be concerned with such details....because the bigger picture of love...sees to the fulfillment of the law.

That is the point of grace.

If God equips us...by His power, to fulfill the law...and we walk in that power (grace)...then we need not always concentrate on the law....but on the love that God's power allows us to walk in.

The greatest commandment is to love God. How? By trying to do laws? No. By walking in intimacy with God? Yes.

Enoch walked with God and God took him. Was that because Enoch looked at certain days as different than others?

Of course not.

Eternal life is 24/7....moment by moment. When a person lives by faith...the details take care of themselves. No need for a calendar to be obedient to God. No self-effort.

If you understood what grace was...you would be able to extend it to others.

But you are promoting an ignoring of grace in favour of a human powered effort at doing the law...AND (taking the 2nd step away from grace_)...condemning others who don't do as you do.

 

[gadar perets]

For those who will receive it, 1 Timothy 4:1-6, Mark 7:15-19, Luke 11:41, and Romans 14:14 go together; and I don't think that @gadar perets can answer all of them together as they apply to each other.

Maybe he can pick them apart as they exist on their own; but he cannot take them together as a whole as they apply to each other and refute them as they exist together as parallel passages.

They are not parallel passages. Each refers to a different subject and must be addressed individually. Learn what a "parallel passage" means.

It is a doctrine of demons to command to abstain from meats that God has created to be received with thanksgiving. Every creature of God is good and nothing to be refused because it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I already addressed this, but I will add that a pig, for example, was never created to be eaten. You are teaching believers that they can eat dogs, cats, centipedes, cockroaches and even humans since humans are "creatures".

I myself try to obey the food laws and teach that they ought to be obeyed by the more mature believers for the sake of not stumbling the weaker Jewish brother. But I take issue when the same weaker brother tries to impose his scruples on Gentile Christians who are not under the law because they are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb.

The weaker brother of Romans 14 was a vegetarian, not an eater of unclean meat. The stronger brothers were men who ONLY ate what was permitted by Torah. I impose "my scruples" on no one. I teach the brethren YHWH's scruples (laws). If you choose to not be subject to the law, then you are a weak carnally minded believer (Romans 8:7).

Everyone is at a different place in their walk and God is able to make the Gentile believer stand if he decides to eat pork, shellfish or whatnot. To his own Master he stands or falls; and @gadar perets, you are not the Lord and Master of Gentile Christians, Jesus is.

While YHWH makes us stand where we are, He also continues to lead us to where He would have us to be. He is extending grace to you while the Holy Spirit leads you to obey, but if you continue to reject the Spirit's leading, then you will remain in your carnally minded state.

 

[gadar perets]

You are twisting things. When you seek to be justified by the law....you are indebted to do the whole law.

It is you who are twisting things by continually accusing me of being justified by the law when that is not the case. Are you seeking to be justified by the OT's greatest commandment to love YHWH or the second greatest OT commandment to love your neighbor? No. Neither am I seeking to be justified by the law simply because I keep more commandments that you.

Love fulfills the law. If I visit a neighbour...do I think...I mustn't steal. I mustn't steal? Or does love not consider stealing at all....but rather giving. So then love eliminates the need to be concerned with such details....because the bigger picture of love...sees to the fulfillment of the law.

That is the point of grace.

If God equips us...by His power, to fulfill the law...and we walk in that power (grace)...then we need not always concentrate on the law....but on the love that God's power allows us to walk in.

The greatest commandment is to love God. How? By trying to do laws? No. By walking in intimacy with God? Yes.

You ask, "How?" do we "love God". He gave us the answer;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.
​

We love Yeshua the same way;

John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.​

Enoch walked with God and God took him. Was that because Enoch looked at certain days as different than others?

Of course not.

Eternal life is 24/7....moment by moment. When a person lives by faith...the details take care of themselves. No need for a calendar to be obedient to God. No self-effort.

When Yeshua said, "Go and sin no more" or "keep my commandments", it requires self effort. It is something we choose to do (not sin).

If you understood what grace was...you would be able to extend it to others.

But you are promoting an ignoring of grace in favour of a human powered effort at doing the law...AND (taking the 2nd step away from grace_)...condemning others who don't do as you do.

Here is an excerpt from Grace Is Not a Thing

Five Misconceptions about Grace​

Grace opposes effort. If it’s “all about grace” then clearly it’s not about effort. Or so it seems. But, as Dallas Willard once said, “Grace is not opposed to effort, it is opposed to earning.” Christians therefore, should work hard, strive, and toil—but we do so not for grace but from grace. Because of the gospel we are motivated not by guilt but by gratitude. And the gospel is the greatest motivating power in the world, propelling followers of Christ to love their neighbor, do justice, and share the gospel. Philippians 2:12-13 describes this type of grace-driven effort: “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”​

 

[bbyrd009]

My friend, my celebration of Easter has no pagan elements within it. On that day I strictly celebrate the resurrection of Jesus.

i'm sure you believe that, and i don't mean to say that you aren't forgiven for this anyway; unfortunately that we all recognize Ishtar during Passover is more a national reflection than a personal one, regardless of our perspectives i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm not sure I understand your question.

we are called to be like gods, in another place to become elohim, to pick up our crosses and follow, and do even greater things than He, so when that happens would you then be in your pantheon too? Are you going to worship me?
it's already been tried too i think

 

[Episkopos]

It is you who are twisting things by continually accusing me of being justified by the law when that is not the case. Are you seeking to be justified by the OT's greatest commandment to love YHWH or the second greatest OT commandment to love your neighbor? No. Neither am I seeking to be justified by the law simply because I keep more commandments that you.


You ask, "How?" do we "love God". He gave us the answer;

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous.
​

We love Yeshua the same way;

John 14:15 If you love me, keep my commandments.​

When Yeshua said, "Go and sin no more" or "keep my commandments", it requires self effort. It is something we choose to do (not sin).


Here is an excerpt from Grace Is Not a Thing

Five Misconceptions about Grace​

Grace opposes effort. If it’s “all about grace” then clearly it’s not about effort. Or so it seems. But, as Dallas Willard once said, “Grace is not opposed to effort, it is opposed to earning.” Christians therefore, should work hard, strive, and toil—but we do so not for grace but from grace. Because of the gospel we are motivated not by guilt but by gratitude. And the gospel is the greatest motivating power in the world, propelling followers of Christ to love their neighbor, do justice, and share the gospel. Philippians 2:12-13 describes this type of grace-driven effort: “work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.”​

Our cross: our effort to improve our walks in our own strength.

His cross: His life in us...His effort...in a walk in His strength.

Guess which one is according to grace....and which is according to law.

 

[gadar perets]

Our cross: our effort to improve our walks in our own strength.

His cross: His life in us...His effort...in a walk in His strength.

Guess which one is according to grace....and which is according to law.

Yeshua said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." He did NOT say, "If you love me, I will keep my commandments for you."

(I'm off to work).

 

[Episkopos]

Yeshua said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." He did NOT say, "If you love me, I will keep my commandments for you."

(I'm off to work).

....we keep them through His power. An OT sabbath keeping scheme is by the flesh.

Walking IN the Sabbath rest is by the power of the Spirit. And not just 1 day a week.

 

[bbyrd009]

^ whatever it takes to be able to work 7 days a week i guess

Study to shew thyself approved. Don't minister the word unless you know what it is really teaching.

um, the Easter guy, right?
imo if you saw this on a tv show you would not believe it to even be possible i guess
maybe unless it was about Sheldon's mom or something?

 

[bbyrd009]

so, worship Jesus, and
celebrate Easter during Passover

prolly no hypocrisy there at all

 

[APAK]

Not to be an apologist on this subject of clean and unclean foods, although scripture does record that even before the Flood folks knew of foods and creatures that were sanctioned by God and those that were not. They were given as a common-sense and safety list, so the people would not become sick, diseased, to maintain their health. If you look at the list of Leviticus and in Deuteronomy why would anyone really dispute they were not given for our own good. God did not just randomly pick out foods as off-limits, just to tick people off. If we adhere to this list and there are really more, it does show we that we care about God’s advice, even under the age of Grace. Besides being a command of God, it was never forced on anyone. I do not know that those that deliberately violated this command were never credited with righteousness.

The commands of God that were vital for salvation were definitely in a much different and crucial class that these concerning foods.

I for one out of ignorance have eaten a few of the unclean foods intermittently, especially one more often that the other two. This does not show my deliberate defiance toward God; it shows a lack of concern or care for his word and ignorance of it. Yes, it shows a lack of love. Ignorance because it could affect my health negatively. It does not affect my salvation and standing with God.

Who would eat mosquitoes (Malaria) or eels (worms)? Even oysters and lobster, yes lobsters? I was on a cruise a few years back and a guest went ape over lobster (when it was given gout feely). He eventually was helicoptered off the ship. Had a heart attack, and he was not even 50 years old. I guess he ODed on Zinc or some other element or compound that became too toxic when ingested too quickly and into the blood stream. I guess we need guidelines for our own good?


I believe common sense should prevail on this subject and God was not giving out just guidance. He meant that this list was a matter of life and death. He loves us.

Blessings,

APAK

 

[gadar perets]

....we keep them through His power. An OT sabbath keeping scheme is by the flesh.

Walking IN the Sabbath rest is by the power of the Spirit. And not just 1 day a week.

How do you keep the Sabbath rest by the power of the Spirit while you are doing yard work on the 7th day? You don't. You do Satan's work to pollute YHWH's holy day and sin. The physical Sabbath rest as commanded in Scripture is only on one day of the week. Anything more is man made.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How do you keep the Sabbath rest by the power of the Spirit while you are doing yard work on the 7th day? You don't. You do Satan's work to pollute YHWH's holy day and sin. The physical Sabbath rest as commanded in Scripture is only on one day of the week. Anything more is man made.

Because if the inside of the cup is clean, the outside just will be as well.

 

[bbyrd009]

whatever it takes to justify working 7 days a week i guess
"i'm so holy i can now selectively ignore Commandments"

He meant that this list was a matter of life and death.

the only clean or unclean foods are spiritual, and no ancient Hebrew was plexed up about literal meat and milk together, we even have recovered recipes from the time proving this...kind of hard to search, but the plethora of contemporary rabbis arguing over the same passage should provide a clue. i mean it is kind of cute, don't get me wrong, but it's also ridiculous, now we got "devout" Jews tryna out-devout each other with 2 dishwashers, even 2 refrigerators, i mean where does it end lol

 

[bbyrd009]

How do you keep the Sabbath rest by the power of the Spirit while you are doing yard work on the 7th day? You don't. You do Satan's work to pollute YHWH's holy day and sin. The physical Sabbath rest as commanded in Scripture is only on one day of the week. Anything more is man made.

"It is based on the Latin dies Veneris, "Day of Venus". Saturday: named after theRoman god Saturn associated with the Titan Cronus, father of Zeus and many Olympians..."
ya, no cult of Sol ppl in here at all lol, see gadar, all ya gotta do is change the name!

methinks we didn't Protest near enough

 

[gadar perets]

whatever it takes to justify working 7 days a week i guess
"i'm so holy i can now selectively ignore Commandments"

the only clean or unclean foods are spiritual, and no ancient Hebrew was plexed up about literal meat and milk together, we even have recovered recipes from the time proving this...kind of hard to search, but the plethora of contemporary rabbis arguing over the same passage should provide a clue. i mean it is kind of cute, don't get me wrong, but it's also ridiculous, now we got "devout" Jews tryna out-devout each other with 2 dishwashers, even 2 refrigerators, i mean where does it end lol

You are referring to a false interpretation of not seething a kid in his mother's milk. Not eating swine's flesh and mice are an entirely different issue and quite physical. That is why those spoken of in Isaiah 66:15-17 will be consumed in the coming day of judgment.