The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[BloodBought 1953]

They are not saved because they justify sin. See Matthew 7:22-23 again.


preaching the Forgiveness Of Sins is far removed from “ justifying” sin.....I don't do that.... I don’t know anybody that does.....one thinks this because it is a side effect of having a brain full of Religious Mush....

 

[WalkInLight]

Sin is a word taken from the greek word hamarte. It means to miss the mark

Sin is also called a tresspass whether your tresspass against God or man. Failing to love is to break the law.

Excuse it however you want. It is a sin, you MISS THE MARK

you "MISS THE MARK"

This way of talking about life is a legalists paradise. As individuals everything is rules based with measures, and people get blown away
when they fail on different points, but accepted when they pass. It is a dry desert of list makers and list givers. As humans we live in a
sea of giving and receiving emotional gifts, of picking up turmoil or joy and responding to it empathetically. A day is draining because our
own emotional ups and downs go along with the sea around us.

One reason why prisons are full with people with reading, speaking, emotional stability, mental health issues is because lists just mean
people who cannot cope break the rules. They are sinners to be condemned to hell, or are they sinners who truly need empathy and
support which their lives have lacked all the time.

Born into the wrong group, miss-treated and abused, little wonder a wreak was created. The problem with middle classes is they believe
conforming is life itself, putting on a show, being something they are not, so play the game, often 2nd or 3rd generation believers, guessing
at what christianity actually is and never being true to themselves, because they never find who they truly are to begin with.

What is Jesus's core message? Love. But for the world this is joke, a mirage on some distant ship, where loneliness and isolation is the
reality and pretending is all they have.

Loving your neighbour as you love yourself is doing unto others as you would have them do unto you. It is not a law too high to condemn
oneself as failing, it is being fair, giving space and respect for all and waiting for the time when sharing can begin.

My words here create an emotional response in you now. That is how we live, in these emotional responses. But they just tell us where
we are today, and open up the door to seeing where we can go to. That is Jesus's promise, we can be like Him. No matter how crazy that
sounds that is His promise, a free living soul who can love from the heart. Paul the apostle found this, Praise the Lord, so can we all.

God bless you

 

[Wynona]

There are a few Christian groups and or individuals who are close to the truth, and who teach how we must be obey God after we are saved by God’s grace. I was excited to travel on a future vacation so as to attend Christ’s Sanctified Holiness Church because they teach two aspects of salvation as the Bible teaches (You can see their church here). But then I found out that they deny the future bodily resurrection of believers (Which I take it be a salvation issue). There is also Alan Manson of MyGospel.info (See this article here). He also believes in two aspects of salvation (of which he calls Initial Salvation, and Final Salvation - which is a term taken from Dan Corner of Evangelical Outreach article published in 2011 as seen here). However, I talked with Alan by email (which were book length type emails between the two of us). While I love Alan’s soul, Alan Manson believes in some odd things and his attitude is one that is overly controlling to the point of being cult like and unloving. For example: He believes being born again happens later in the Christian life (Instead of it being in our Initial Salvation - John 1:12). He believes in the false belief of the Pre-existence of the soul for the Christian. Meaning, he believes that Christians existed in Heaven before they were born into this world. But only Jesus said he came down from Heaven (signifying He was uniquely the Son of God). While I was willing to agree to disagree to fellowship with him, he started to treat me like an enemy by his unloving words because I did not accept his odd views that are not clearly taught in Scripture. As for Dan Corner of EvangelicalOutReach.org: I also wish Dan Corner could come across as being a little more loving in their rebuke of Free Grace Christians (for he mocks them by classifying them under some kind of skull and cross bones award - See here). I contacted him before by email, but he appeared to just have a hate on for Free Grace Christians whereby we could not just fellowship in Christ in love or talk about the Bible as a guide for our lives personally.

There is another Christian named Alan (not Alan Manson). His name is Alan Ballou. His YouTube videos are the best when it comes to teaching Sanctification as a part of our salvation. I have contacted him by email and he is very loving even when we disagree on things. The one major thing I disagree with Alan Ballou on is that he does not understand the Trinity.
You would think that because he does not understand the Trinity that his videos on Sanctification would not be good, but this is not the case. He has discovered verses that most Christians ignore today. So I still watch his videos and I still talk with him (even though he does not get the basic teaching on the Trinity). Just check his video here:

His videos on the sharing of the verses on Sanctification always uplift me (although I disagree strongly with his not understanding the Trinity). For I believe that a Christian should in time accept the Trinity as a part of salvation. For we cannot worship false gods.

Then there is Adam of Epiousion Apologetics. He believes in the Trinity (like I do), and he believes holy living after being saved by God’s grace is necessary as a part of God’s plan of salvation.

Adam does not provide a personal contact to talk with one on one in private. Where we appear to disagree is that baptism is necessary for salvation. While I would not stand in the way of any Christian who is being led to be water baptized, and I do see that there are certain verses that can imply that water baptism is for salvation, I do not believe that to be the case based on various verses (See my write up here with Scripture - if you are interested).

There is IFBC Church (http://www.ifbc.org/) that appears to agree that holy living is a necessary part of our salvation. But the one church that is closest to me that I would like to attend is in another State (super far away from me).



I believe I study the Bible with the help of the Spirit comparing Scripture with Scripture. I do at times look to various Christian articles online certain times, and I have been seeking to find other believes like me who I can share in the joy of Christ, but there is not many out there who live near me.



Yes, my apologies. I do realize that there are some Protestant churches that do not fit into the Free Grace mold (and I should be more clear about my words or labels). But you have to also realize that Martin Luther started the Protestant movement and Luther said, “No sin can separate us from Him, even if we were to kill or commit adultery thousands of times each day" ['Let Your Sins Be Strong, from 'The Wittenberg Project;' 'The Wartburg Segment', translated by Erika Flores, from Dr. Martin Luther's Saemmtliche Schriften, Letter No. 99, 1 Aug. 1521. - Cf. Also Denifle’s Luther et Lutheranisme, Etude Faite d’apres les sources. Translation by J. Paquier (Paris, A. Picard, 1912-13), VOl. II, pg. 404]. Even if Luther never really said this and it was a false document of what he really believed, we know that Luther did not believe works did not play a part in our salvation (as a part of his protest against the Catholic Church). If history is correct on what he said, Luther said the epistle of James is an epistle of straw. So why would somebody want to follow Martin Luther? That’s where Protestantism originated from. Why should we follow a label that defines that point in history if we do not agree entirely with Luther? Granted, Luther was correct for rebelling against the Catholic Church. It’s just that he did not rebel for entirely for all the right reasons. For the Catholic Church is in error. Catholics are into idolatry (statue worship), and praying to the saints (dead people - which is Necromancy) among many other problems. I see Luther as going down the road of opposite wrong extreme. So why would we want to associate with a label that is associated with Luther? Granted, I am not saying that the church you go to is not saved or they are not helping you in your relationship with the Lord. I am not saying you should not go to your church, either. I am just speaking from my experience and what I know from the Bible, and history. Most churches I have attended do not speak encouraging words that gets you on fire to follow the Lord in our Sanctification like the videos found by Alan Ballou (even though I disagree with him on his non-acceptance of the Trinity as I said before). But the point here is to follow the Lord Jesus according to the Bible alone (with the leading of the Spirit) without having to be tied to any labels. I realize nothing is perfect in this life.

Also, there are Protestant groups that are clever with their wording. They say you must obey as a part of salvation, and or they say Sanctification is a part of salvation, but they see that being saved by God’s grace as the sole removal of the penalty of sin. They don’t believe Sanctification is a part of the removal of the penalty of sin, too. They believe Sanctification saves only in the removal of the presence of sin (But they don’t even believe that). They believe a Christian will live more progressively holy, but they don’t believe a Christian can ever stop sinning this side of Heaven. They see 1 John 1:8 as an excuse that they will be a slave to sin in this life. But they don’t realize that the servant (servant of sin) will not abide in the house forever. Only a son will abide in the house forever.

I haven't checked out Alan Manson yet but I have watched both videos and subscribed to both channels.

The video with Adam sharing his testimony was so much like my story. When he said that he was taught that faith alone would somehow free you from sin, I felt that.

The first video was really good and full of convicting Scriptures. I almost wish I could get a list of all the Scriptures he used and do a Bible study of them. I will go back and see if he put them in the description.

It is so good to see people saying the truth! I don't think words can adequately describe what I got from what you've shared. Strong meat and encouragement come close.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

“…but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.” (Isaiah 66:2)


You ever check out this thing called the *NEW* Testament?
“ Now ( through Christ ) , we have PEACE with God”

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Try to focus. The writer of “Hebrews” is not a Christ rejecting Hebrew!

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26)

Acts 28 or any other mumbo jumbo explanation you present cannot nullify the FACT I just pointed out!

I am becoming convinced that “willful ignorance” is even more dangerous than “ willful Sinning” .....you poor poor man ....

 

[WalkInLight]

If Calvinism was true, the following scenario would have taken place in the story of Jonah.

Jonah comes to the city of Nineveh, and says to them, "I am here to tell you what God is going to do in you already. You are going to believe and repent and turn from your wicked ways."

There would be no mention of the Judgment. Just how they were going to believe.

God brings salvation to the Ninevites and opens their hearts.
Then the Ninevites repented and turned from their evil and wicked ways.

But that is not how things played out.
It was the reverse.

The Ninevites were under danger of Judgment whereby they were actually going to perish like the gourd. This real threat to their lives led to their repentance and forsaking of their evil ways.
When God seen they had turned away from their sinful ways, that is when God decided to no longer to bring Judgment that would overthrow the city and make them to perish.

Jesus says in Matthew 12:41 that the Ninevites will stand in judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. They had true repentance because they cried out to God (repentance) and they forsaken their evil ways (the natural fruits that always follow true repentance). So this was Judgment and not some kind of chastening. Jesus was giving us an example of repentance, as well. This was not an example of Calvinistic repentance being shown to us.

If such were the case, then we would see the whole city overnight change mysteriously by God involving their wicked ways. They would just drop in the middle of their sinful acts and fall to their knees and ask God for forgiveness. But this is not what we see. We do not see Ninevites about to do something sinful and then stop midway in doing something sinful and call unto God. That is what we need to see if Calvinism's version of repentance is actually true. For the testimony of Jonah 3 stands strongly against the Calvnistic version of repentance. It is all about what the Ninevites did and not what God did in regards to whether or not they were saved. Yes, salvation cannot be had without God. Nobody is denying that. Syngerism does not deny God in the process of salvation. God of course sets forth the way of salvation for man and God seeks to convict man's heart if He is open to being convicted. It depends on how hard their heart is in regards to their own sin and if they truly want the Lord and His good ways in their life.

So many believers do not see the story of Jonah as an emotional story of life, God and sin.
Jonah knew God loved Nineveh and would forgive them if they repented, but Jonah wanted none of that they should perish.

Oppps. Jonah would sacrifice his life for standing against the Lords ways, but he did not want the sailors to die, so he would
die instead, best of a bad job.

Nineveh knew they were sinning, destroying each other and it was a mess. The fact God sent Jonah who hated them, and
saved his life even though Jonah was a mess, meant things were seriously bad, and this was their last chance. I mean party
time had come to an end, and get the ship right or it goes down all hands. So they are struck to the heart and repent like
its going out of style...they knew what was coming, and it was all bad, even they would say it would be fair.

The Lord teaches Jonah he still wants Nineveh to die, but the Lords love is greater than this.
This is such an emotional story, those with hard hearts do not see it at all. At my age I only begin to grasp the lostness of
man and the wonder of love and its infinite hope. We are so wrapped up in our own personal turmoil we cannot see beyond
our petty ups and downs, to see as things actually are, and that Jesus loves us beyond our understanding.

God bless you

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Very true. There is definitely a difference between wilfully sinning and unwillingly succumbing to the compulsions of our fallen nature.

One thing they both have in common: They are covered by the Blood.That first one however will just about guarantee a painful trip to God’s “ Wood-Shed” ....I’ve been there once or twice—- how about You?

I found out that that God does not play games there —- wanna try to Sin on Purpose ? It’s true God's Grace will never fail you , but it’s also true that God is not going to let His Grace be Mocked....Do you believe that because of Grace, God is going to let you “ Sin and get away with it ?”...... lol.....go ahead and give it a shot, Fool....

 

[Wynona]

what a joke.

Your fight is useless. You will not convice people who trust God to repent and return to trusting self again

When you can no longer debate the topic, you've lost the argument.

 

[Wynona]

Since some complained about long posts, here's a nugget:

1 John 3:6 NKJV

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

424

“…but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.” (Isaiah 66:2)


You ever check out this thing called the *NEW* Testament?
“ Now ( through Christ ) , we have PEACE with God”

It’s in the New Testament also:

“Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (2 Corinthians 7:1)

But OF COURSE ya’ll have private special definition of “fear”…

I have heard all of the Once Saved Always Saved ridiculous reasonings already…

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is the spirit and truth of the sabbath rest command. To cease our working to try to bring about the child that receives the inheritance and to trust God to do it.

cease striving and know that I am God.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

And now we must consult the Greek to get schooled on Once Saved Always Saved.

The English language Holy Bible isn’t even off the table to contradict and tear down! Just ask @mailmandan

These are tactics of tyrants who wish to control the people with their “truth” that only can be attained by twisting the very thing that would expose them.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He chastens and scourges every son he accepts”

This is akin to melting off slag, purifying, removing leaven, renewing of mind.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

400

the Lake Of Fire will be for those that thought that they got Saved by “ keeping a Law “

Really?

What saith the scripture?

“But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.” (Revelation 21:8)

I don’t see “and those who thought they were saved by keeping the law” on the list…

Imagine that. Another Once Saved Always Saved addition to scripture…

BB, you do know what will happen to those who ADD to the scriptures don’t you?

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Amen! Keep those Commandments! Keep BOTH of them——#1 Believe. #2 Love.

So then why are you arguing with me?

If you walk in love you will keep all the commandments and not sin!

“For: "Do not commit adultery; do not murder; do not steal; do not bear false witness; do not lust;" and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this word, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself." Love works no ill to its neighbor, therefore love is the fulfilling of the Law.” (Romans 13:9-10)

 

[WalkInLight]

How did Stephen enter heaven?

Stephen realised the pharisees and rulers when faced with Jesus preaching the Kingdom, dying and rising again meant nothing to them, the whole temple and following the law was meaningless. Jesus had declared the apostles clean because of the cross? No, because of the words they had heard and put into action they had been cleansed, changed, transformed because they knew Jesus loved them at a fundamental level.

We are so used to claims being false, our reference point is ourselves and our own failures, not something outside our own experience or reality.
We talk of the cross so much, we often miss it is the love expressed there which is the healing for all, which the apostles saw before He died.

The cross was the ultimate peak of expressed love, by God dying for mankind, accepting their worst approaches and submitting to them without a word. Because only then could forgiveness flow eternally for those who accepted this forgiveness. As man makes idols of everything, a symbol can become the idol which saves everything, when it is what it represents is the power. The bronze snake in the desert raised so people could be healed from snake bites by looking at it also became an idol.

If cleansing has no consequences, and hearts are not opened by Jesus's love, actions and attitudes shifted, then there is no reality in the believers heart.

I know 100% there are folk who believe they are saved, in church leadership who have never let Jesus in and repented of the hurt and harm they have brought on others. No matter the theology or positions taken, if this reality has not come to be true in ones life, one has nothing. But the door is always open, and Jesus will answer if the call is made.

Why Jesus talked of thorns and thistles of false teachers is because their hearts are set on themselves and destroying others, in those moments of encouragement or put downs, they choose put downs and aggressiveness rather than words of calm and soothing of tired souls.

God bless you

 

[Michiah-Imla]

400

the Lake Of Fire will be for those that thought that they got Saved by “ keeping a Law “

I’m still searching the scriptures to see if what BB is saying is true (Acts of the Apostles 17:11), but I still can’t find where “those that thought that they got Saved by keeping a Law” were condemned in any way.

“And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk: Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.” (Revelation 9:20-21)

BB, do you care to explain where you got extra-biblical doctrine from?

 

[mailmandan]

And now we must consult the Greek to get schooled on Once Saved Always Saved.

The English language Holy Bible isn’t even off the table to contradict and tear down! Just ask @mailmandan

These are tactics of tyrants who wish to control the people with their “truth” that only can be attained by twisting the very thing that would expose them.

I see that you remain bitter and disgruntled over being banned from Christian Chat and you blame the OSAS crowd for it and you also seem determined to relentlessly attack and slander OSAS believers (along with promoting yourself as sinless 100% of the time) which is in contradiction to Scripture. (1 John 1:8-10; 2:1)

1 John 3:6 - No one who abides in Him [who remains united in fellowship with Him—deliberately, knowingly, and habitually] practices sin. No one who habitually sins has seen Him or known Him.

AT Robertson (well known expert in Greek Grammar) on the two uses of sin - Linear present (linear menōn, keeps on abiding) active indicative of hamartanō, "does not keep on sinning." Present (linear) active articular participle like menōn above, "the one who keeps on sinning" (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as hamartēsas, aorist active participle, would mean).

1 John 3:6 Commentary | Precept Austin

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I see that you remain disgruntled over being banned from Christian Chat and you blame the OSAS crowd for it

Not true.

This conversation came up only after @Bible Highlighter brought up the subject. I merely added my background to engage his comments. Otherwise I never bring those things up. I haven’t even mentioned the name of the site out of respect.

I’ll be where ever the Lord leads me next. I hold no grudges.

“Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.” (2 Corinthians 2:11)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you also seem determined to relentlessly attack and slander OSAS believers (along with promoting yourself as sinless 100% of the time) which is in contradiction to Scripture. (1 John 1:8-10; 2:1)

I relentlessly tear down false doctrines. Characterize that how you want.

I correctly showed you the non-Once Saved Always Saved interpretation of 1 John 1:8-10 numerous times. Your highly coveted sin promoting interpretation of that verse is clearly dismantled in simply reading the entire book of 1 John. But you guys let your flesh dictate how you act and how to interpret spiritual matters.