The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Bible Highlighter]

The difference is night and day in comparison to the way Luke used "fear" in Acts and a the way Paul used "fear and trembling" in his epistles.

Paul used the phrase "fear and trembling" twice in his letters, when you compare the two it is impossible that "fear and trembling" carries the definition you have claimed!

In the world of Protestantism it is impossible. But with God all things are possible. Again, all I can do is encourage you to look over the verses I put forth to you and to read the chapters in prayer for those verses. Let God truly talk to you about this. Those who do evil (even if they are a believer) should fear God. God is not a respecter of persons. If anyone does evil they will perish.

The phrase be not deceived is used several times in the New Testament. Most of those times it warns us about sin and how it can keep us out of God’s kingdom. These verses were written to believers and warning them against sin and it’s afterlife consequences. These warnings are for all Christians. Paul was not battling against Universalism (i.e. that all will be saved including the wicked).

 

[Behold]

If anyone does evil they will perish.

John 10:28

Jesus said that if you trust in him, you "shall never perish".
This is all the born again who will "never perish".

So, Jesus is a liar, or you are a deceiver.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You are teaching that doing works, is to "work out your salvation", and that is not the case.
Salvation is not related to a person's works nor does it require it.
So, what you've down is create the false idea that salvation is works of obedience, and of course that is the gospel of works, or Legalism.

The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It’s believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day. This is a big part of how we are Initially Saved (even though it is something we must continue to believe in). But there is a CALL of the gospel (not that it is the gospel). This call of the gospel is that God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (See: 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14).

EVERYTHING in your Bible is a part of the faith. So if God tells you to do works (and He does - See: Ephesians 2:9, Titus 3:8, Titus 3:14), then this is a part of your faith because faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).

"work out your salvation". has nothing to do with trying to do works of obedience.
"work out your salvation" is to understood that YOU HAVE IT......You possess Salvation that is the eternal Gift of God....if you are born again.
And now understanding that you possess it, you are to learn how to exist IN IT< with the renewed mind of understanding regarding what it means to be a possessor of God's Grace,...... and works have no part in that, at all.

All of this was said without one iota of Scripture. You have learned this from Protestants and not from reading the Bible with God’s help.
2 Corinthians 7:1 describes the working out your salvation with fear and trembling. Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:1, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God. Romans 8:13 gives you two choices to live life.

(a) If you walk after the flesh (sin), you will die. (or):
(b) If you put to death the misdeeds of the body (sin) by the Spirit, you will live (live eternally).

Salvation puts your spirit in the KOG< having become "ONE WITH GOD", and there is no law or commandments found there...and that is where the born again exist "in Christ".
What is found there, is RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having this now, has to be understood correctly and gaining this revelation is how you "work out your salvation".
Also, "fear and trembling", does not mean to be afraid of God.......but its to be in reverential awe of God our Father.
A solid paraphrase is....>"work out your salvation in, Awe and Wonder".

I know Modern Translations or the KJVer Translation falsely teaches this, but that is a part catering to the Protestant agenda.
To fear God means to depart from evil (See: Proverbs 16:6).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

John 10:28

Jesus said that if you trust in him, you "shall never perish".
This is all the born again who will "never perish".

So, Jesus is a liar, or you are a deceiver.

Jesus also said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.” (John 8:51).

Jesus also said, “And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.” (Matthew 7:26-27).

Jesus also said, “He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48).

What words of Jesus can condemn us on the last day if we don’t receive (accept) them?

Well, check out Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62, etcetera.
Most Christians I talk with nowadays don’t accept these words by the Lord Jesus.

 

[marks]

Just looking at the word work in the Greek (κατεργάζομαι) (katergazomai)

How would you contrast the two words, katergadzomai and ergon?

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

In the world of Protestantism it is impossible. But with God all things are possible. Again, all I can do is encourage you to look over the verses I put forth to you and to read the chapters in prayer for those verses. Let God truly talk to you about this. Those who do evil (even if they are a believer) should fear God. God is not a respecter of persons. If anyone does evil they will perish.

The phrase “Be not deceived” is used 8 times in the New Testament. 7 out of 8 of those times it warns us about sin and how it can keep us out of God’s kingdom. These verses were written to believers and warning them against sin and it’s afterlife consequences. These warnings are for all Christians. Paul was not battling against Universalism (i.e. that all will be saved including the wicked).

Since my last post on this thread I've been searching for the 3rd time Paul used "fear and trembling."

For the life of me I couldn't remember where it was, but I remembered it was 3 times. I found it.

1 Cor. 2:3

"And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling."

Here Paul is using this phrase the same as the others. He realizes the huge responsibility of being the apostle to the Gentiles, he knows he totally inadequate to complete this calling on his on.

He is showing here his total dependence on God that He will see it through.

"Fear and trembling" in all three examples by Paul represent dependence and respect.

I don't remember now what I said it represented in our previous conversations on this subject, but they are all related.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

How would you contrast the two words, katergadzomai and ergon?

Much love!

Like all words (even in English), words can have different meanings based on the context.

For example: I can say that,

"The dog's bark could be heard all the way down the street; He scratched his paws against the bark of tree at the squirrel up in the tree (hoping to get the little guy)."​

As you can see there are two words spelled as "bark" but yet they have two different meanings. These are called homonyms and they do exist in the Bible.

So there is not one sole meaning alone to each of these Greek words but they have multiple definitions depending on the context.
But I believe I gave you the meaning (or definitions) to you for each words in my previous post to you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Since my last post on this thread I've been searching for the 3rd time Paul used "fear and trembling."

For the life of me I couldn't remember where it was, but I remembered it was 3 times. I found it.

1 Cor. 2:3

"And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling."

Here Paul is using this phrase the same as the others. He realizes the huge responsibility of being the apostle to the Gentiles, he knows he totally inadequate to complete this calling on his on.

He is showing here his total dependence on God that He will see it through.

"Fear and trembling" in all three examples by Paul represent dependence and respect.

I don't remember now what I said it represented in our previous conversations on this subject, but they are all related.

I have already provided verses to you prior that destroys this false idea that fear and trembling is reverence and awe, etcetera. Fear God means to be afraid of His punishment because you are doing evil. Naturally one would tremble if they fear God. If one has simply respect, I don’t know of anyone who trembles if they respect someone. That just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

 

[Charlie24]

I have already provided verses to you prior that destroys this false idea that fear and trembling is reverence and awe, etcetera. Fear God means to be afraid of His punishment because you are doing evil. Naturally one would tremble if they fear God. If one has simply respect, I don’t know of anyone who trembles if they respect someone. That just doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

BH, the Greek word translated "fear" can be used either way! The definition is found in the use of the context.

 

[Behold]

The gospel is 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. It’s believing that Christ died for our sins, He was buried, and He was risen the third day. This is a big part of how we are Initially Saved .

Being born again, is to become "One with God". and "translated from Darkness to Light".
The born again, instantly become "seated in heavenly places in Christ".
They born again, instantly become a "heir of God, and a Joint heir with Jesus".
The born again, are become, instantly, "the temple of the Holly Spirit".
Being born again is to become a possessor of Eternal life, instantly and for eternity....as that is why its called ETERNAL LIFE.

There is no "initial" and later there is more..... as Salvation, is not a process, its a Gift that was finished by Christ on the Cross.
He told you so, when he told you..>"it is Finished", and died and rose again to prove it.
Its proven.

So, as i told you.
Jesus said, the born again will never perish., and i quote the verse for you.
You teach they can perish.
So, Someone is deceiving, and as your posts continually demonstrate that you have no correct understanding of Redemption as being what Jesus completed, and instead teach some bizarre idea of "Initial" salvation.....then its clear as a bell regarding who is not telling the Truth.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

BH, the Greek word translated "fear" can be used either way! The definition is found in the use of the context.

Again, we don’t just read verses in isolation to the rest of the Bible. I have given you other verses that you are ignoring that are dealing with how fearing God is in reference to departing evil (Proverbs 16:6). We who tremble at His Word are to hear (obey) the word of the Lord (Isaiah 66:5). This is in context to obeying God (See Isaiah 66:4).

 

[Charlie24]

Again, we don’t just read verses in isolation to the rest of the Bible. I have given you other verses that you are ignoring that are dealing with how fearing God is in reference to departing evil (Proverbs 16:6). We who tremble at His Word are to hear (obey) the word of the Lord (Isaiah 66:5). This is in context to obeying God (See Isaiah 66:4).

OK, BH, you know what best to believe for yourself.

 

[Behold]

I have given you other verses that you are ignoring that are dealing with how fearing God is in reference to departing evil (Proverbs 16:6).

Yet you sin and confess.
So, how is that fear working out for you?
Not too well.
And why? Because to stop sinning is not based on being terrified of God. That wont help you.
To stop sinning you have to be delivered by revelation into the correct understanding of who you have become as a "new Creation" in Christ.

Its exiting in the Grace of God, by the revelation knowledge of being made the "righteousness of God in Christ", that brings the light of deliverance and frees the believer.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Being born again, is to become "One with God". and "translated from Darkness to Light".
The born again, instantly become "seated in heavenly places in Christ".
They born again, instantly become a "heir of God, and a Joint heir with Jesus".
The born again, are become, instantly, "the temple of the Holly Spirit".
Being born again is to become a possessor of Eternal life, instantly and for eternity....as that is why its called ETERNAL LIFE.

Please quote the Bible, and not some made up sayings.

There is no "initial" and later there is more..... as Salvation,

So if there is no Initial Salvation (or beginning point of when you first got saved), then you are saying you were saved even when you were an unbeliever? I don’t believe you are saying that. You believed that there was a specific point in time of when you were first initially saved. It just seems like you don’t know what the word “initial” means and so you are fighting against it (without really knowing it’s definition or meaning).

Salvation, is not a process, its a Gift that was finished by Christ on the Cross.

Again, the Protestant saying that “the gift of salvation was finished at the cross and there is nothing else” is made up.

1 Timothy 6:12 says, “Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life,…” (KJB).
Romans 8:13 says, “…if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (KJB).
Galatians 6:8-9 says, “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.” (KJB).

You cannot in good conscience twist the plain meaning of these verses above.

He told you so, when he told you..>"it is Finished", and died and rose again to prove it.
Its proven.

Universalists can say that everyone (including the wicked) are saved by pointing to Provisional Atonement verses like John 1:29. But that does not mean they are correct.

So, as i told you.
Jesus said, the born again will never perish., and i quote the verse for you.
You teach they can perish.

No. I do not teach this. The Bible does. I already gave you verses like John 8:51, Matthew 7:26-27, and Matthew 12:48 and you simply ignored them.

So, Someone is deceiving, and as your posts continually demonstrate that you have no correct understanding of Redemption as being what Jesus completed, and instead teach some bizarre idea of "Initial" salvation.....then its clear as a bell who is not telling the Truth.

Initial Salvation (when a person first gets saved) is taught in Ephesians 2, and Titus 3, etcetera. People are not saved their whole lives. There is a point in time when they first get saved. This is by God’s grace without works when they first get saved. After that… they enter the secondary aspect of salvation as taught by Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2:13. God has chosen us to salvation through Sanctification of the Spirit, and a belief of the truth. See also Romans 8:13.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OK, BH, you know what best to believe for yourself.

No. It’s not for just myself, but it is for everyone. Most people know that trembling is tied to fear and not when a person has respect. This is the silliness that you want me to believe (Which is utter nonsense).

 

[Behold]

Please quote the Bible, and not some made up sayings. People are not saved their whole lives.

Ive quoteed about 10 verses for you so far...so, you are being dishonest about this also.

And you just taught that "people are not saved their whole lives".

So, what Christ Rejecting theology are you teaching these people on the forum. ??
You just taught that Salvation is Temporary.......
Thats a serious accusation against the Blood of Christ and the Death of Christ.

You ramble on about fearing God, ..yet its real fear of God you should have that prevents you from saying such anti-cross statements as you have posted against Christ's Salvation/Atonement.

Listen, when you teach that believers are not "saved their whole lives", you are limiting God's Grace and mocking ETERNAL LIFE.
Eternal life has been given to every born again believer, and Eternal life is not TEMPORARY, as you are falsely teaching.

 

[marks]

How would you contrast the two words, katergadzomai and ergon?

Much love!

You quoted a website. I was more interested in what you yourself know about these two words. No worries!

Much love!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Ive quoteed about 10 verses for you so far...so, you are being dishonest about this also.

And you just taught that "people are not saved their whole lives".

So, what Christ Rejecting theology are you teaching these people on the forum. ??
You just taught that Salvation is Temporary.......

Thats a serious accusation against the Blood of Christ and the Death of Christ.
Thats blasphemy aimed at the Grace of God.

You ramble on about fearing God, ..yet its real fear of God you should have that prevents you from saying such a anti-christ statements as you have posted about Christ's Salvation/Atonement.

I did recognize that you partially quoted Scripture but then you mingled in your own words with it and did not provide any verse number references distinguishing your words from Scripture.

 

[Charlie24]

No. It’s not for just myself, but it is for everyone. Most people know that trembling is tied to fear and not when a person has respect. This is the silliness that you want me to believe (Which is utter nonsense).

OK, whatever you say.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You quoted a website. I was more interested in what you yourself know about these two words. No worries!

Much love!

I quoted sources from dictionaries. I also quoted the Bible itself (context) to support my understanding on what those words say, as well. So do you don’t get your meanings of words from Hebrew/Greek dictionaries or from basic English dictionaries? Do you just make up your own definitions out of thin air? Generally believers look to some kind of source of some kind to get meaning behind the words in the Bible (Whether they be English words or words in the original languages).