The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[Behold]

I did recognize that you partially quoted Scripture but then you mingled in your own words with it and did not provide any verse number references distinguishing your words from Scripture.

You obviously have not been around many real NT teachers. which explains, in part, your stranger then strange, theology.

See, on forums, people like you think that if they post 4 verses, they've proven their point.
But in the spiritual realm, where the Holy Spirit reveals.... =to teach a verse, is not to cut and past the chapter.
Believe it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

OK, whatever you say.

Nope. It’s not whatever I say. It’s what reality and the Bible teaches.
Nowhere on planet Earth do people tremble at others who simply have great respect for another.
One trembles if they have fear or if they are cold or something.
This is why OSAS or a sin and still be saved type belief is just stupid.
The world of Protestantism just makes you believe dumb things that are illogical.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You obviously have not been around many real NT teachers. which explains, in part, your stranger then strange, theology.

See, on forums, people like you think that if they post 4 verses, they've proven their point.
But in the real world, in the spiritual realm, where a teacher like me is coming from.... to teach a verse, is not to post the chapter.
What i do, what a teacher does, is not related to cut and paste.
Believe it.

Right, so if you truly are boasting in your ability here, then why have you not dealt in explaining verses like John 8:51, Matthew 7:26-27, and John 12:48? Why have you not explained the other verses like 1 Timothy 6:12, Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9? I will tell you why. It’s because you cannot in good conscience explain the plain meaning of these verses without having to twist them.

You insult me because you don’t know how to explain the verses put forth to you.

Side Note:

Oh, and yes. I did recognize you quoted the Bible without the verse references. What I was saying is that the Bible did not say exactly in the way that you said it (Whereby you mingled your own words with Scripture without distinguishing between your words and the words of the Bible with actual verse number citations). You simply spoke as if your words were on the same authority as Scripture. Nowhere does the Bible say the exact words you stated (even if some of those statements may be true). In other words, please speak more Bible and less of your own wording unless you can clearly demonstrate from Scripture your own wording.

 

[Charlie24]

Nope. It’s not whatever I say. It’s what reality and the Bible teaches.
Nowhere on planet Earth do people tremble at others who simply have great respect for another.
One trembles if they have fear or if they are cold or something.
This is why OSAS or a sin and still be saved type belief is just stupid.
The world of Protestantism just makes you believe dumb things that are illogical.

That's fine with me, BH.

 

[Behold]

Right, so if you truly are boasting in your ability here,

You posted your opinion about what i said.
Nothing more.

Listen, i teach.
That's not a boast. Its a burden actually. Its a weight. Its a serious responsibility.

Paul said...>"ive done more than all the other apostles combined"....and that was not a boast.

Here let me post a chapter and a part of a verse

Proverb's 14 says that all hard work brings a profit, and you can believe i work very hard on this forum and on many, and this is just a "helps" im performing here, as this is not my actual ministry.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That's fine with me, BH.

I am not surprised.
Anyways, may God bless you (even if we disagree strongly on Scripture).

 

[Charlie24]

I am not surprised.
Anyways, may God bless you (even if we disagree strongly on Scripture).

I feel the same, may the Lord bless you.

 

[Behold]

Right, so if you truly are boasting in your ability here, then why have you not dealt in explaining verses like John 8:51, Matthew 7:26-27, and John 12:48? Why have you not explained the other verses like 1 Timothy 6:12, Romans 8:13, and Galatians 6:8-9?

Im Happy to oblige you.

If you have more, i can do another for you.

Here you go.

1. John 8:51... Jesus says you wont see death if you keep his word-(saying)<< Yet, you are born to die. You are heading to the Grave. So, He's talking about another DEATH. And that is the 2nd Death. And if you keep his saying. SINGULAR...>"his "saying".....not SAYINGS...but just one... you wont see or face the Lake of fire which is the 2nd Death.
And what is that SINGULAR SAYING?....
its this....>Jesus said....."you must be BORN AGAIN".
And He's not kidding you.


2.) Matthew 7:26-27.... Jesus is speaking about keeping his SAYINGS......so that your house is not flooded. So, Christ is being symbolic. Yet, he's talking about discipleship....... In another verse He teaches, "if you keep my words, you are my disciples indeed"... that is John 8:31-32, in context.


3.) John 12:48. ... Jesus is talking about being a Christ rejector, in that verse. He's saying that if you dont receive His word, that is the seed that brings the washing of regeneration, then this rejection of His "saying" "word" ends for you like this when you die on earth....>Jesus says. "if you believe not that i am HE, yu will die in your sins"....and after your spirit leaves your body, as a Christ rejector, you will face 2nd Death, being judged for not being found in the Lamb's book of life, and you will be cast into "outer darkness" that is the end result of not obeying "you must be BORN AGAIN"... Christ's WORD TOLD YOU.

4.) 1 Timothy 6:12 .... Paul is talking to a convert, he's telling him...he's encouraging him.....its a pep talk for this Soldier of Christ...."be strong" "stand firm" "have your loins girded with the Truth"..>"wear your helmet of Salvation"...>"quit ye like men"......."lay hold on eternal life"....

5.) Romans 8:13.... This verse is Paul warning the believers about the final consequence of backsliding and never repenting......He tells them, and its a fact.....if you turn back to the world's vomit like a hungry dog, and you wont repent......."you will die".....and thats a fact. Many believers go to Heaven "before their time" because they went backwards, and ended up dead too soon.

6.) Galatians 6:8-9.... This verse talks about sowing to the Spirit....and that by FAITH IN CHRIST......and if you sow to the flesh, that is to sin and live in it, = then you end up more and more depraved, more sin hardened, more unable to hear the call of God, until finally you end up with a "seared conscience", and once there, you can't be drawn to the Cross by the Holy Spirit ever again.

 

[marks]

I quoted sources from dictionaries. I also quoted the Bible itself (context) to support my understanding on what those words say, as well. So do you don’t get your meanings of words from Hebrew/Greek dictionaries or from basic English dictionaries? Do you just make up your own definitions out of thin air? Generally believers look to some kind of source of some kind to get meaning behind the words in the Bible (Whether they be English words or words in the original languages).

Fair enough.

No, I don't make up definitions out of thin air. I draw from my schooling, and a variety of source materials like interlinears and lexicons. Katergadzomai is more like perform a task, ergon is more like to do an original work. Katergadzomai is done by the laborer. Ergon is done by the motive force.

We work out what God works into us. As He changes us on the inside, we are to implement those changes into our lives. I've heard these words compared to saying katergadzomai is what the assembly line worker does, ergon is what Henry Ford did.

Much love!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I have met a lot of people who claim their anger is "righteous anger"
My question would be to anyone who puts this forward is have they a history of conflict and anger in their past?
Are they picking battles because of how it makes them feel or because it is real?
Do the targets of their anger deserve it and does it actually serve a purpose?



I have no history of “ conflict or anger”: I wish you could know me in the “ Real World”—- Away from the place where I have to continuously “fight” to counter- Act Those that preach “ False and Perverted” Gospels —-I am the kindest, most forgiving man you could ever know in the Real World—- I am well- known for these qualities where I live ....

I think I have a “ God- Given” Natural Anger when I see modern -day Pharisees posting their false gospels and Legalism in these Forums That at the very least have Believers living “ crippled” Walks Of Faith or at the Worst, might keep them from getting Saved....I think we all know that Jesus was VERY angry with the Legalistic Pharisees Of “ His “ day.......He called them “ Fools”, “ Dirty “, Snakes, etc.....
It seems that I’m in good company with my Anger..

When it comes to Salvation , Jesus should get 100% of the Credit and Glory and we should get NONE.....when I see Thieves that try to Steal the Glory Of Jesus I get Angry....I don’t apologize for that and I will continue to Reprimand those that try to usurp what belongs to Jesus alone...

 

[Helen]

Nope. It’s not whatever I say. It’s what reality and the Bible teaches.
Nowhere on planet Earth do people tremble at others who simply have great respect for another.
One trembles if they have fear or if they are cold or something.
This is why OSAS or a sin and still be saved type belief is just stupid.
The world of Protestantism just makes you believe dumb things that are illogical.

No brother , it is what YOU SAY that the Bible teaches…it is your interpretation of what you think the Bible teaches…
Sorry , you do a great disservice to the power of His blood,. ..

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Furthermore, you must be a Pauline worshipper bc the Gospel of Jesus Christ is what saves. Paul was an Apostle not God !




“ Paul’s Gospel” ( 1 Cor 15:1-4) is what Saves in this Present “ Age Of Grace”......That GOOD NEWS was given to Paul personally by Jesus as the Way To Salvation after Jesus ascended back to Heaven.......Paul was God’s “ Chosen Vessel “ to spread what he referred to ( at least three times) as * HIS* Gospel......” My Gospel” is what Paul was referring to when he said that God would judge us all by “ My Gospel” ...... it would be wise to get familiar with it.....

Paul wrote NOTHING in his letters that was not inspired by the Holy Spirit and OF COURSE he is not Jesus , but if he writes something that winds up in the Bible , you had better pay attention...He is “The Messenger to the Gentiles” and this side of the Cross, we go to Paul to get proper Doctrine.....God Gave to Paul at least Seven Mysteries That Jesus NEVER shared with His Disciples , and they
Knew NOTHING about them..... Vital things like his Gospel, The Church Age, The Body Of Christ, the Rapture, Salvation by Faith in the Cross.......if not for Paul , we would know NONE of these things...

Reject Paul at your own risk.....Even Peter said that everything that Paul wrote was equal to anything else in Scripture....You are ignoring your Latest “ Marching Orders”........We have been ordered to “ Follow Paul as he follows Christ”.....If Paul said it, it’s the same thing as Jesus saying it....



Oops! Please note that this post is intended for a general audience....

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I accept your apology and you are forgiven !

I understand what you are saying and need your forgiveness as well, I'm sorry I snapped back.

I too only want to help ppl but we must also try not to offend any. It is hard to keep your spirit still when the Spirit has given you understanding.

I get my psycho drugs cofused at times too , mine are pink and purple.......

No problem , my fine Sister.....it’s all my fault.....I got so much stuff going on trying to stay caught up in here , I often get in too big of a hurry and make all kinds of dumb mistakes....I “assumed” that you and others knew that I was talking to a general audience , because that is what I do 90% of the time .....I think we have all heard the old adage about what happens when people “ ASSsume”, right? ..... I just accidentally proved the old adage to be true.....lol.....

Btw.....go easy on those “ pink” pills ! .....years ago I took one too many and woke up in a Burmese House Of Ill-Repute——it’s getting late.....that will have to be a story for another time ....lol....

May God Bless you and yours...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

No brother , it is what YOU SAY that the Bible teaches…it is your interpretation of what you think the Bible teaches…
Sorry , you do a great disservice to the power of His blood,. ..

Sorry, Helen. When you read and believe verses like Romans 3:25, you also have to read and believe verses like 1 John 1:7 that says if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

“Walking in the light” = “Loving your brother” according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.

In other words, you have to “love your brother” in order to ALSO have the blood of Jesus to cleanse you from all sin.

I did not write this in the Bible (above), but God did.

Helen, what do you also do with passages like Galatians 6:8-9?

Galatians 6:8-9 says,
8 “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”

Notice carefully what it says in this passage above.
In verse 8: Paul says, he (the person) who sows to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption.
But he that sows to the Spirit shall reap everlasting life.

In verse 9: This is why Paul admonishes us to not be weary in well doing for by doing so, we shall reap if we faint not.

Faint not in well doing in what?

Sowing to the Spirit in whereby we shall reap everlasting life.
It's what the proceeding verse (verse 8) says.

Paul here is talking to believers and not unbelievers.

What is sowing to his flesh mean?
In the previous chapter, Paul establishes what this flesh is.

Galatians 5:19
“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,”

Paul keeps going on the list of these sins and says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God (See: Galatians 5:20-21).

Helen. These things in Scripture are clear and not just an interpretation.
They only are twisted and changed by the Protestant group because they don't like what they say.
They want to justify sin under God's grace or turn His grace into a license for immorality (Which Jude 1:4 warns us against). For Titus 2:11-12 tells us that God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. Does your version of grace align with Titus 2:11-12 Helen? If not, then you got the wrong grace, Helen.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Im Happy to oblige you.

If you have more, i can do another for you.

Here you go.

1. John 8:51... Jesus says you wont see death if you keep his word-(saying)<< Yet, you are born to die. You are heading to the Grave. So, He's talking about another DEATH. And that is the 2nd Death. And if you keep his saying. SINGULAR...>"his "saying".....not SAYINGS...but just one... you wont see or face the Lake of fire which is the 2nd Death.
And what is that SINGULAR SAYING?....
its this....>Jesus said....."you must be BORN AGAIN".
And He's not kidding you.

This is a wrong interpretation. While we do need to be born again to enter the Kingdom (John 3), and to do God's will, and while we do acts of righteousness by our Father (God), vs. the Jews who did the works of their father (the devil) nowhere in the context of John 8 supports this false line of thinking in that Jesus was referring to one singular saying like being born again in John 8 alone and that's all you have to worry about. Jesus said in context,

“He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” (John 8:47).​

Yes, obviously a person who is born of God is going to hear God's words. But you fail to understand that in John 8:51, Jesus was referring back in context to hearing God's words (plural) in John 8:47.

In John 8: Jesus says he that sins is a slave of sin (John 8:34).
But the slave (servant) does not abide in the house forever (John 8:35).
But the Son abides forever.
Again, I want to stress this point.
Jesus is saying that the person who is slave to sin will not abide in the house forever. So if you believe you can sin and still be saved and you will always sin this side of Heaven, you are a slave to sin (and you will not abide in the house of Christ forever). Meaning, there were believers who made it all the way to the wedding chamber, but because they did not have on a wedding garment (i.e. the fine linen being the righteous acts of the saints), they were cast out (See: Matthew 22:1-14, and then compare with Revelation 19:8 cf. 1 John 3:7).

Anyways, the SON (Jesus) abides in the house forever. This is why we need to have the Son abiding or living in us so that we may have eternal life.
The way we can know the Son is if we find we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3-4).

In fact, in John 8: One of the points by the Lord Jesus was refuting Belief Alone-ism.

John 8:39
“They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.”

This sounds like the OSAS crowd. Just as the Jews said, “Abraham is our father.” (i.e. Belief Alone-ism).
By your OSAS belief, you guys could say: “We are born again.” “Jesus is our everlasting Father.” “Jesus is God.”
But if you were face to face talking with Jesus, He could potentially give you the a similar reply by saying: “If you are God's children, ye would do the works of God.” (John 8:39).

Oh, and being born again does not make you immune to all sin or give you some kind of diplomatic immunity to not worry about sin. Jesus even says that to look upon a woman in lust, you are in danger of hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus says if you do not forgive, you will not be forgiven (Matthew 6:15). Paul says that you can deny the faith by not providing for your own household and is worse than an unbeliever (See: 1 Timothy 5:8). So singular sins can cast you out of the Kingdom.

2.) Matthew 7:26-27.... Jesus is speaking about keeping his SAYINGS......so that your house is not flooded. So, Christ is being symbolic. Yet, he's talking about discipleship....... In another verse He teaches, "if you keep my words, you are my disciples indeed"... that is John 8:31-32, in context.

Here you contradict yourself. First, you refer to how John 8:31-32 talks about keeping His words (Which it does) but Jesus says if you continue in my word (singular) (Unless you are using the New Matthew Bible Translation). But this singular word (mentioned in John 8:31 in most Bible translations) is referring to words (plural). So you are correct that Jesus is referring to words (plural) in John 8:31), but you made an issue before about how John 8:51 was referring to a singular saying when in context, Jesus was referring to obeying (hearing) God's words (See again: John 8:47). This is contradictory.

Second, in Matthew 7:26-27: You believe Christ is talking about discipleship and not salvation.
Jesus in context is talking about salvation because He said beforehand to those believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from because they also worked iniquity (sin) (Matthew 7:22-23). Jesus was driving the point home even further, that you and your house (your offspring that follows you) will be destroyed like a house built on the sand when a storm comes if you do not do His sayings (plural). In addition, Jesus warns against the person who just calls upon Jesus alone saying “Lord, Lord” in prayer (as if that is all they did their whole life). For Jesus says: “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” (Matthew 7:21). What is the will of the Father or God?

1 Thessalonians 4:3 (KJB)
“For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:”

So it is the will of God (or the Father) is your sanctification (like abstaining from fornication).

This is why Paul says in 2 Corinthians 7:1, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

This is why James says,

“Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

3.) John 12:48. ... Jesus is talking about being a Christ rejector, in that verse. He's saying that if you dont receive His word, that is the seed that brings the washing of regeneration, then this rejection of His "saying" "word" ends for you like this when you die on earth....>Jesus says. "if you believe not that i am HE, yu will die in your sins"....and after your spirit leaves your body, as a Christ rejector, you will face 2nd Death, being judged for not being found in the Lamb's book of life, and you will be cast into "outer darkness" that is the end result of not obeying "you must be BORN AGAIN"... Christ's WORD TOLD YOU.

In John 12:48: Most translations refer to not receiving His words (plural) and not word (singular).

Jesus says,
“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.” (John 12:48) (KJB).

Meaning, while we do need to be born again to enter the Kingdom, Christ is not referring to just being born again alone but He is also referring to receiving all His words.

As I said to you before, many Christians do not accept the words of Jesus like Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, etcetera and this is spiritually dangerous because Jesus said there are spiritual death consequences for not heeding these words of His.

In John 12:48: You can say it is referring to a Christ rejector, but there are those who believe in another Jesus according to the apostle Paul (See: 2 Corinthians 11:4). Another Jesus is not going to save anyone. If we preach a Jesus that is not in Scripture, that type of Jesus will not save anyone. That is why Jesus said if we do not receive His words, the word He had spoken will judge us on the last day. Meaning, if you did not forgive somebody in this life, then the Father will not forgive you according to the words of Jesus in Matthew 6:15. So if you believe in OSAS or Belief Alone-ism and you reject Matthew 6:15, as a result, you would have not received those words by Jesus in Matthew 6:15 and they will judge you on the last day. Your OSAS or Belief Alone-ism will not save you. Only the words of the Lord can save you.

 

[Behold]

Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

“Walking in the light” = “Loving your brother” according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11.

"Light" is not love.
"walking in the Light" is not loving your fellow brethren.

"Light" is Christ who is the Light of the World

"Light" is revelation... and to walk in Christ by revelation, is to walk in the Light.
To exist in the knowledge of what it means to be "in Christ", .... having become "the righteousness of God in Christ"....is to walk IN THE Light.

 

[Behold]

The way we can know the Son is if we find we are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3-4).
John 8:31), but you made an issue before about how John 8:51 was referring to a singular saying when in context, Jesus was referring to obeying (hearing) God's words (See again: John 8:47). This is contradictory..

You state that we know the Son if we keep His commandments, yet, thousands of commandment keeping water baptized people died and went to hell today.
So, "keeping commandments" is the theology of the Legalist, which is you.

Next, there are 2 verses, and once speaks of a specific "saying"......and i showed you it means...."you must be born again", and then there are the disciples who are keeping the saying(s).

2 verses, very different context, as i showed you clearly.
See, you can be a disciple of Christ, and end up here....>"depart from me, i never never knew you"., as all those were followers, who were doing the works of Christ......even to the point of using His name to cast out demons".
Yet, Christ said of these disciples.....>"i never knew you".

And why? Because they were never born again, exactly as the commandment keeping legalists who teach works in place of the Cross of Christ as THEIR idea of salvation.
You know all about this...

 

[Behold]

Meaning, while we do need to be born again to enter the Kingdom, Christ is not referring to just being born again alone but He is also referring to receiving all His words.

Thank you for reiterating what i showed you in a previous post.
Good job.

 

[Behold]

In John 12:48: Most translations refer to not receiving His words (plural) and not word (singular).

Dont use those Translations.