The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[BloodBought 1953]

I have changed people’s minds before using Scripture. But it was not really me, but it was the seed of the Word of God, and all glory should be given to God for that. But I think what is more important is asking the question:



May God intervene and help those who’s minds you have changed....I wonder how many people that you, as a Blind Guide, have put in a ditch.....

Please do not invoke the name of God as you try to teach your “ False and Perverted” gospel of Works and Lucky Repentance......thanking you in advance ....

 

[Taken]

It’s the Words of Scripture along with the working of God that saves men and not the actual preacher. The preacher is just relaying what God’s Word says and God is using them to do His work. Also, preaching by word of mouth (in person) is not the only effective method for God’s Word to have an effect upon people. God’s Word is not bound in such a way. The written Word can be preached in the form of writing, or video, or by audio. God’s Spirit can also move in a person’s life to soften their heart, as well (preparing them to accept His Word).

I didn’t say (in person).
I didn’t say only.

 

[Taken]

Pffttt.....wake up, Behold! “ Lucky Repentance” is the “ end- all and be- all” when it comes to Salvation...

It turns out that those whose Doctrine is that you can be Saved by Repenting Of all of your sins before you die are just like the OSAS crowd ! You can Sin all that you want and still get Heaven— One can rape and murder 1000 times and STILL get Saved! Just try to make sure you get the “ LUCK” to Repent Of all of your sins before you kick the bucket and you are good to go! Let’s all devote a portion of our prayer time to petition God for plenty Of Luck....” It is by *LUCK* that you are Saved, lest any man should boast”.....

What are you talking about?
OSAS, is NOT, becoming Saved and then continuing to Sin or luck!

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Well, Galatians 5 mentions nothing about a “believer confessing sin as being tied to not understanding the righteousness of God in Christ (one with God)” claim you originally made. Now, Galatians 5:4 does mention about falling from grace. This is true.

Galatians 5:4 says, “Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.”

But this is in context to the problem of “Circumcision Salvationism” (Which was a false belief or heresy during that time that said you had to first be circumcised to be initially saved - See: Acts of the Apostles 15:1, and then compare that verse with Galatians 5:2). Circumcision was something that was a part of the instructions given to Abraham and then it carried over into the Law of Moses. But circumcision is not required as a part of the commands given to us by Jesus Christ and his followers. So Galatians 5:4 is in reference to being justified by the 613 Laws of Moses as a whole or package deal. We do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, yearly Sabbaths, holy days, dietary laws, circumcision, etcetera. For Paul says in Galatians 4:10-11, “Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you,…”; So Paul is not referring to the Laws of Christ Jesus. For Paul says he is not without Law seeing he is under the Law(s) to Christ (See: 1 Corinthians 9:21).

This is why Paul says to the Galatian believers why they were bewitched in Galatians 3 (and not Galatians 5 as you said).

Galatians 3:1-3
“O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”

Again, which works of the Law is Paul talking about here?

Well, I already showed you Galatians 4 refers to observances of day which is a part of the Law of Moses.
But in Galatians 2:3, Paul mentions how he did not compel Titus who was a Gentile (Greek) to be circumcised. Again circumcision was a command given to Abraham and later to Moses, but it was not a command given to us by Jesus and His followers. Gentile Believers are said that they don’t have to keep the 613 Laws of Moses (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:5) because the Jewish apostles said that was not something they were told to do (but only to keep certain laws) (See: Acts of the Apostles 15:24).

As your reference to “in the flesh”:

This again is in another chapter in Galatians (i.e. Galatians 6, and not Galatians 5).

Galatians 6:12
“As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.”

Again, as we can see in this above verse, this was dealing with the problem of those who thought they had to be circumcised first in order to be saved as per the heresy mentioned in Acts of the Apostles 15:1 (at the Jerusalem council). Circumcision was OT (Old Testament), and not NT (New Testament). So it appears like you don’t know what the Bible actually says and you are just making stuff up.

Is this Wind Bag Finished Yet? So much Computer Ink, Yet so little Biblical Truth..




I Hate to simplify the things you insist upon making so complicated but I will do so for the sake of the Newbies that might be peering into theses Forums...



Circumcision was not so much the actual problem as it was a “ Symptom” Of The Problem.......

We have the same actual Problem today that Paul encountered.....The-Judaizers Of HIS day were just like the ones that we see today ....especially in these Forums...

It was the same old story—— “Sure Jesus Saves! —- BUT!” The False Teachers That came up From Jerusalem with their “ False and Perverted Gospels” to “Trouble” the Believers That had understood the Gospel That Paul had preached to them earlier were the Spiritual Father’s Of The Legalists and the Leaven Spreaders that we see here everyday....


They believed that Even though Jesus might be “ Essential” for Salvation, His Sacrifice on the Cross was just not “ ADEQUATE” in and of itself for Salvation....


Their False Doctrine said that Jesus Saves, But once you know “ THAT”, you must be Circumcised and Keep the Law Of Moses ( The judaizers Addition to the Gospel did not just stop with circumcism ) Paul said that if you Added to His Gospel Of Pure Grace you were “ Fallen From Grace” and “Severed from Christ” .....scary stuff .....and many , many people had better pray that theses two descriptions do not equate to

Damnation, or else that “ Narrow Gate” That Jesus referred to is going to be VERY narrow....


Today’s Judaizer will likewise NEVER deny that “ Jesus Saves” ....They just say that “ Yeah, Jesus Saves all right, * BUT* you ALSO have to Repent Of All Of your Sins Before you die ( Lucky Repentance Saves!) , or they will claim that Jesus Saves, BUT you then have to keep the commandments of Moses, or the Commandments Of Jesus, or you have to go to church or you have to tithe or you must endure to the end, or you must “ live the Life” —- the list of “ADDITIONS” to Paul’s Gospel is endless.....but they are ALL Additions! Some of these Add-Ons are very great! Don’t confuse the things that we “should” do with what we MUST do!

The only thing that you MUST do is to REST in Paul’s Gospel —— Simply BELIEVE that Jesus “ Died for your Sins and Rose from the Grave”......Add ANYTHING to that Gospel Of The Pure Grace Of God and you are no better that a Circumcision - spouting Judaizer of the time of Paul....

If you believe in your Gospel Additions , you are “ Fallen From Grace ....That is bad enough , but you may “ not” be damned.....Go one step farther, and actually TEACH these “ False and Perverted”, so - called Gospels and there is no question about your fate..... Gal.1:8 declares without any doubt that you are “ Accursed”.....That is a polite way to say that you are “ God- Damned” for Eternity....

Some in hear ought to rethink the False Gospel Additions That they Make—- Especially their “ Lucky Repentance”Doctrine —- it’s straight from Hell.

 

[Taken]

Yes. I say… “your camp” because you don’t appear to agree with me on what the Bible says in regards to sin and or salvation.

@marks

Nothing in Scripture teaches one men must agree with another mans Scriptural interpretation.

According to this thread here, you appear to believe in a form of OSAS (Which is not what the Bible even remotely teaches).

* Absolutely ONCE SAVED, it is Permanent!
* Scripture absolutely DOES teach Salvation is Given and Received AFTER the Bodily Death of a Believer. <—- those persons are Physically Dead...
^ Some Dying in Belief, BEFORE Jesus arrived on Earth.
^ Some Dying in Belief in Jesus, AFTER Jesus arrived on Earth.
^ THOSE shall be Raised up in the First Resurrection, AFTER the 1,000 yr reign.

Scripture absolutely DOES teach Salvation is Given and Received AFTER the Bodily Death of men Crucified with Christ Jesus.
^ Some Physically still Alive, Yet Spiritually Dead WITH Christ, Spiritually ALIVE IN Christ, SAVED.
^ Some Physically dead, Yet Spiritually Dead WITH Christ, Spiritually ALIVE IN Christ, SAVED.
^ THOSE shall be Raised up BEFORE the Trib. Return with Christ Jesus, KING of kings, LORD of lords, and reign with the KING for 1,000 years, while mortals occupy Nations outside of Christ Jesus Kingdom.

The WHOLE set-up of Jesus arriving AS A JEW, AS a Son of man, AS a Son of man (Joseph) of the House of David, David King, David’s everlasting Throne in Jerusalem, AS a descendent of Abraham, Abraham Promised Land, Abraham’s descendent Promised the same Land as their inheritance.
Jesus fulfilled “the LAW”, of foretelling God would Walk among men.
Jesus also fulfilled “the LAW” of the Jews”, that ONLY a Jew is LAWFULLY Entitled to Sit on King Davids Everlasting Throne, that ONLY a Jew is LAWFULLY Entitled to inherit Abraham’s promised Land...
Christ Jesus SHALL Sit on King David’s Throne IN Jerusalem, 1,000 yr.
Christ Jesus’ KINGDOM SHALL encompass Abraham’s promised Land.
A remnant of MORTALS shall Establish Nations OUTSIDE of Christ Jesus’ Kingdom.
The Nations shall have their kings. Christ Jesus shall be the KING of kings.
Nations kings, shall pilgrimage to Jerusalem once a year.
Nations kings, shall teach their people the Word of God.
Nations kings shall live, die, and new kings reign.
Nations shall prosper over the duration of the 1,000 years.
As Nations prosper, Pilgrimages, of kings, become laxed.
* It’s the same ole same ole...Men prospering in riches, comfort, falling away, from the Need of the LORD, and the people of the Nations, becoming no longer LEAD by godly kings.
* As the 1,000 years comes to an end, Satan is loosed from hell, to once again Influence the Nations, to not ONLY reject the LORD, but Come AGAINST His Kingdom.
* The Nations kings gather together armies, TO War Against Christ Jesus’ Kingdom. They are defeated and killed.
* Thereafter Spiritual Warfare ensues, Demonic Angel and Holy Angels.
Demonic Angels are defeated and permanently sent to the pits of hell forever.
* THEN is Judgement of all Mortals.
* THEN is the Earth Renewed and Only the Saved Occupy the Earth and Heaven Opened, and AS it is in Heaven so shall it be the Same on Earth. Division and Separation Overcome and ONLY the Light of God.

Practically almost every page of your Bible is dripping with conditional statements in regards to our right standing with God (So as to enter His Kingdom).

Well no kidding! AND WHY, ONCE a man HAS OVERCOME, very LITTLE of Scripture thereafter Applies to man WHO HAS OVERCOME...

I can not speak FOR YOU. However for myself, I am already DELIVERED from the power of darkness.
I am ALREADY SAVED.
I am INDWELT with the the Spirit of God (thus no room for Satan’s Evil Influence).
I am ALREADY ARMED with Armor of God (thus no room for Man’s Wicked Influence).

Col 1:
[13] Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

 

[BloodBought 1953]

What are you talking about?
OSAS, is NOT, becoming Saved and then continuing to Sin or luck!

Note—— this is all theoretical....

Two Perfect Born-Again Believers driving down the road together .....Big Foot jumps out on the highway ! Right before the crash both men cry out a dirty word ! they both then die of sudden heart attacks ! One of the poor guys dies before asking for forgiveness of his cursing sin —-he forgot to— he gets damned. The other guy had the Good Fortune or “ Luck” to NOT forget to Repent Before he died+, so he gets Saved......The latter guy got blessed with “ Lucky Repentance”......Got it now ? Lol.....what a load .....Faith turned out to mean Nothing....Grace never existed....Being “ Sealed” was a lie.....it all came down to having the Super Memory and the Luck to Remember and Repent Of all of your sins before you Died....
“Go In Peace....your Lucky Repentance hath Saved you”......Anybody out there gotta Barf- Bag ?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Let me ask this of all........

Have you ever really changed someone's mind on their belief either or their indoctrination ?

Have you guided any to say yeah you are correct in your understanding, I am wrong .

We claw and scratch like what is tossed out there is the LAST worm in a roost of chickens !

I gave up on trying to “ change somebody’s mind” in these Forums a LONG time ago.....

All I try to do is contend for the Gospel Of Grace , Using the Confused and poorly taught posters in here as “ springboards” to get the Truth Of “ Nothing But The Blood ” out there to the Newbies that may wander in here and get ruined by the Legalists, the Religionist and the Tares That come in here with their Puke ......
Newbies are going to have to deal with Gospel Perverters and Legalistic Jerks out there in the RealWorld....hopefully that can come in here+and get some True Biblical “ ammo” and refute those that try to rob them of the assurance and joy that God wants His Children to have... I just trudge along and try to do what I can to help fight the good fight ......

 

[Taken]

Note—— this is all theoretical....

Two Perfect Born-Again Believers driving down the road together .....Big Foot jumps out on the highway ! Right before the crash both men cry out a dirty word ! they both then die of sudden heart attacks ! One of the poor guys dies before asking for forgiveness of his cursing sin —-he forgot to— he gets damned. The other guy had the Good Fortune or “ Luck” to NOT forget to Repent Before he died+, so he gets Saved......The latter guy got blessed with “ Lucky Repentance”......Got it now ? Lol.....what a load .....Faith turned out to mean Nothing....Grace never existed....Being “ Sealed” was a lie.....it all came down to having the Super Memory and the Luck to Remember and Repent Of all of your sins before you Died....
“Go In Peace....your Lucky Repentance hath Saved you”......Anybody out there gotta Barf- Bag ?

A man who IS born again, IS born again. The man IS Saved period.
It is ONE man having an Established Forever Relationship with the Lord God Almighty.

* Behaviors between and among men, neither SAVE a man or jeopardizes a SAVED mans position.
* A man blurting out a reactionary cuss word Does not jeopardize a SAVED mans position.
* A SAVED man IS Saved, nothing whatsoever can jeopardize a SAVED mans position.
* It is the “UNSAVED”, (without the indwelling Spirit of God, who ARE still vulnerable to EVIL spirits) and (without the Armor of God, who ARE still vulnerable to WICKED men). They live in HOPE, they can continue Believing to the day they physically die, TO THEN be Saved.
THEY are repeatedly WARNED, “they ARE targets” of Evil Spirits and Wicked men, and CAN FALL AWAY.
* Seriously...LOOK ABOUT at what “sitting World governance, kings, presidents, etc.” PROPOSE, and the number of people at large who BLINDLY follow their every DICTATION...as their MASTER! People at large World Wide, “cowering” in fear of the “threats” of “world kings, presidents, etc.”
AND THE FEW, who refuse to “cower down”... And the “24-7 silencing and badmouthing AGAINST the FEW”...
* Interesting...as World governments DIVIDE the people; Ha, they DO the Will of God as well, openly showing their Standing Against God.

Caution;
When you repeat “something” you DO NOT BELIEVE, on an open forum, remember people you do not know are reading, skimming, and landing on what you do NOT believe as your belief...and thus confusion.

So, What is your standing on OSAS? Yea or Nay?

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I should make a satire news article:

Man takes a vow to do literally nothing to ensure avoiding works based salvation.

"Yeah, I just figure its all about grace and the finished work of the cross. So I quit my job and decided to sit in this empty apartment to show that its nothing we do and all about what Jesus has done for us."

"Don't you still need to eat and use the bathroom?"

"Unfortunately, I haven't perfected my rest in God's promise...but by God's grace, Im striving to do less and less every day. Maybe one day, who knows, Ill figure out a way to eat with zero self-effort."

"What about Jesus' command to love one another, make disciples, and feed the poor?"

"Optional."

"What do you say to critics who say you're sinning by being lazy?"

"Haven't they heard of grace? Sin isn't an issue anymore. Jesus paid it all."

"What about where it says, Go and sin no more?"

"A legalist probably said that."

"Jesus said that."

"...thats not the correct interpretation."

You DO have a Talent! The ability to display THIS much Biblical Ignorance and Confusion and only use 12 paragraphs to do it is “ Surely” a Gift from God...... what else ya got there, Groucho? How much saliva did you use while you were Spitting on the Grace Of God ? And you think that you can TEACH people about the Bible......Both You and your Lickspittle Buddy, “The Lucky Repenter ” are Clueless about the Bible —- “ Father , forgive them for they know Not what they do”......that prayer has Never been more appropriate.....

 

[BarneyFife]

You DO have a Talent! The ability to display THIS much Biblical Ignorance and Confusion and only use 12 paragraphs to do it is “ Surely” a Gift from God...... what else ya got there, Groucho? How much saliva did you use while you were Spitting on the Grace Of God ? And you think that you can TEACH people about the Bible......Both You and your Lickspittle Buddy, “The Lucky Repenter ” are Clueless about the Bible —- “ Father , forgive them for they know Not what they do”......that prayer has Never been more appropriate.....

.
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Still going strong insulting your way into people's hearts with the Gospel, BB53?


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[BarneyFife]

I should make a satire news article:

Man takes a vow to do literally nothing to ensure avoiding works based salvation.

"Yeah, I just figure its all about grace and the finished work of the cross. So I quit my job and decided to sit in this empty apartment to show that its nothing we do and all about what Jesus has done for us."

"Don't you still need to eat and use the bathroom?"

"Unfortunately, I haven't perfected my rest in God's promise...but by God's grace, Im striving to do less and less every day. Maybe one day, who knows, Ill figure out a way to eat with zero self-effort."

"What about Jesus' command to love one another, make disciples, and feed the poor?"

"Optional."

"What do you say to critics who say you're sinning by being lazy?"

"Haven't they heard of grace? Sin isn't an issue anymore. Jesus paid it all."

"What about where it says, Go and sin no more?"

"A legalist probably said that."

"Jesus said that."

"...thats not the correct interpretation."

.
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There are some folks who say you can get all the nutrients you need by going out into the forest and breathing very deeply, but I'm not altogether sure that wouldn't be considered "works" by some other folks' estimation.

And then there's still that pesky water problem. I hear proper hydration can make you really self-righteous.
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[BarneyFife]

Saved people, with Contrite Hearts , realize that the Closer That they get to God, the farther away they see themselves .....

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How do you get closer to God without doing some kind of thing that takes effort?

Is getting closer to God necessary?

And, if so, is it necessary in order to be saved or just necessary because?
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[marks]

In this case, if one sins the type of sins that the Bible attaches with warnings of hellfire and condemnation, they are killed spiritually by that sin (and they are on their way to hell) unless they confess and forsake that sin.

Think about this statement a moment. If you as a Christian sin, when does condemnation and spiritual death come? Immediately? Later? What is your thinking on this?

Edit to add . . . reading more of your posts, I'm thinking you think it happens immediately, is that right? You lie, or you flash with outrage wrongfully against someone and it's immediate spiritual death, until you repent and confess. Do I understand you correctly?

And that goes towards the "lucky repentance" idea I hear, that hopefully you will repent and confess and be re-saved after that last sin before you die. Hopefully you will have time, and self-awareness.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The person who thinks they can sin and still be saved on some level has no real motivation to stop their sins in this life.


At last your phony mask is off......you have revealed your Fatal Flaw.......You don't understand Christianity and you never have....
The “ REAL MOTIVATION” to Stop Sinning is your LOVE FOR GOD! God gave His Son for us and His Son Shed His Blood for us —- God did NOT have to do ANY of this and we sure did not Deserve it....if you are not “ MOTIVATED “ by these Truths, Go and Find yourself another “ Religion”.....You have quite obviously and quite simply “missed the boat” when it comes to Christianity.....it’s ALL about Love....and YOU don’t get it.....

It may have taken 50 barrels of extremely windy and wasted Computer Ink, but give some people enough rope and they will hang themselves....The old saying is True....”The TRUTH will out!” Thanks for finally showing your True Self...

Myself, I'd say the real reason to not sin is that we have a new life, and Jesus frees us from sin to live a new life.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

So we have to have obedience unto righteousness.​

You are teaching Legalism.

Instead, its like this.. .To go to heaven, you have to become "the Righteousness of God in Christ".

You dont earn that, and you dont keep that.......you are MADE THAT, by God. You BECOME, as born again, "the righteousness of God in Christ".
This is "the GIFT of Salvation, that IS>.....>"the Gift of Righteousness".
You dont earn a gift by obedience.... You RECEIVE it, from God, by FAITH.​

 

[marks]

But you are not really explaining your viewpoint on what 1 John 1:8 means, though.

You asked me a question and I answered you. There is a lot to that passage. What would you like to know?

Much love!

 

[Behold]

@Taken


So while we are saved by God’s grace through faith without works when we first are saved, believers are also saved in continuing in the faith in God’s plan of salvation in laboring for the Lord Jesus

You are teaching "works to stay saved" and this is LEGALISM, and is offensive to the Grace of God, and the Cross of Christ, as these, are GIFTs.
The born again "continue" in Christ, not by trying to do works of obedience, but because they have been BORN AGAIN, into the Spirit of God.

"continuing" is based on HAVING Eternal Life. = born again.

 

[Taken]

You are teaching Legalism.​

If you are going to make a Charge, present the facts of your Charge!

You dont earn that, and you dont keep that.......

I have never said such thing.

This is "the GIFT of Salvation, that IS>.....>

Not news as my posts have established that.

"the Gift of Righteousness".

You add that.

You dont earn a gift by obedience.... You RECEIVE it, from God, by FAITH.

And?
Why imply you are making a correction to something I did not say?​

 

[Behold]

If you are going to make a Charge, present the facts of your Charge!​

Your deleted quote i posted, are the "presented facts".
Did you want to go back and post the QUOTESi posted, that you wrote?

Is that a no?
Ok, i'll post your quote


TAKEN wrote...

""""So we have to have obedience unto righteousness. """"​

 

[Wynona]

You have a talent for creative writing, sister.
Hopefully the satire (along with sharing Scripture) will be like a cold splash of water to at least wake up one or two of them to see the truth of God's Word. In the meantime, I believe we should pray in love for those who do believe this way. For...

“A prayer of a righteous person, when it is brought about, can accomplish much.” (James 5:16) (ESV).

And you are displaying patience that is remarkable. It is inspiring.

I agree that we should pray for people in love, always.

It looks like I now have the opportunity to have forbearance.