The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

[mailmandan]

I hold no grudges...

You actually believe that?

 

[mailmandan]

I relentlessly tear down false doctrines. Characterize that how you want.

I correctly showed you the non-Once Saved Always Saved interpretation of 1 John 1:8-10 numerous times. Your highly coveted sin promoting interpretation of that verse is clearly dismantled in simply reading the entire book of 1 John. But you guys let your flesh dictate how you act and how to interpret spiritual matters.

Typical straw man argument. You relentlessly attack the truth. Sinless perfectionists suffer from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

 

[Charlie24]

So you don't believe Ephesians 2:8-9 talks about how we were saved (sav-ED) (past tense) in relation to how salvation (God's grace) is like a gift of God?



Right, and justifying sin can stand in the way of being saved.
Just look at the Parable of the Prodigal Son.
In Luke 15:11, and Luke 15:32, we learn that when the prodigal son came home and confessed of his sins to his father (i.e. a parallel of our everlasting Father: Jesus Christ), the father said that his son was “dead” and he is “alive AGAIN.” Seeing the prodigal son did not die physically, this parable is speaking in spiritual terms. The son died spiritually when he was prodigal and living it up with prostitutes, and he became “Alive AGAIN” spiritually after he came home to his father and confessed of his sins to him and before all of Heaven. James 5:19-20 also expresses this same similar truth. Read it and believe it.



I am sure your Protestant teachers have brainwashed you to believe this, but that's clearly not what the Bible teaches.



Actually, 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 point out that it is more than just believing on what Christ did for us on the cross. Believing the gospel message is believing that Christ died for our sins, he was buried, and he was risen the third day. The Protestant saying that says that you must believe on the finished work of the cross does not exist in Scripture. There are many Protestant sayings that are just plain dumb that do not exist in the Bible. They make up all kinds of silly unbiblical sayings. But of course Protestants are gullible and they just trust those Protestant Theologians instead of the Bible.

Do you remember Paul saying, "that with the heart man believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made into salvation?" Rom. 10:10

Think about that BH. We are made righteous by our belief from the heart. No works of any kind can make us righteous.

We don't work to get saved or to stay saved, we work because we are saved!

The Grace through faith is what keeps us, from the beginning all the way to the grave or the resurrection.

Salvation is a matter of the heart, the condition of the heart.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

You actually believe that?

It’s true.

I hate the doctrine, but love the people.

That’s why I strongly rebuke you!

“For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.” (Proverbs 3:12)

“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.” (Leviticus 19:17)

 

[mailmandan]

It’s true.

I hate the doctrine, but love the people.

That’s why I strongly rebuke you!

“For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.” (Proverbs 3:12)

“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.” (Leviticus 19:17)

Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Since some complained about long posts, here's a nugget:

1 John 3:6 NKJV

6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

you do realize in the original language. the word sin there is an active present sense. It is the same as saying those who live in sin. practice sin. lives like the world. All things we are told of those who are not born again.

It does not say that those who are born again will never sin again.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

you do realize in the original language. the word sin there is an active present sense

You see!

The attack starts with the Bible.

Now what spirit would have you second guess the word of God?

Hint: Genesis 3:1

 

[mailmandan]

you do realize in the original language. the word sin there is an active present sense. It is the same as saying those who live in sin. practice sin. lives like the world. All things we are told of those who are not born again.

It does not say that those who are born again will never sin again.

Amen! It's not about flawless or lawless as sinless perfectionists seem to believe.

 

[Charlie24]

Try to focus. The writer of “Hebrews” is not a Christ rejecting Hebrew!

“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26)

Acts 28 or any other mumbo jumbo explanation you present cannot nullify the FACT I just pointed out!

"sin willfully" here in Heb. 10:26 is called by many theologians "the willful sin."

It is not the acts of sinning, it is the willful act of apostasy, willfully denouncing Christ.

I'm convinced that Paul wrote Heb. no one else had the great knowledge to write it.

He is appealing to the new Hebrew converts who are giving up on Christ and going back to temple worship.

Paul is telling them if you do this,

There is no other sacrifice for your sins.

Judgement will fall on you.

You will have shamed the Covenant of the Lord and trodden Him under foot.

You have brought on yourself death as witnessed under the Law of Moses.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

"sin willfully" here in Heb. 10:26 is called by many theologians "the willful sin."

It is not the acts of sinning, it is the willful act of apostasy, willfully denouncing Christ

No it’s not!

This willful sinning is expressed elsewhere in scripture:

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.” (2 Peter 2:20)

When you are saved you have escaped the corruption in the world:

“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:4)

So if you go back to these sins, you’ll be worse off than before you were saved!

 

[Charlie24]

No it’s not!

This willful sinning is expressed elsewhere in scripture:

“For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.” (2 Peter 2:20)

When you are saved you have escaped the corruption in the world:

“Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.” (2 Peter 1:4)

So if you go back to these sins, you’ll be worse off than before you were saved!

Ok, whatever you say.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen! It's not about flawless or lawless as sinless perfectionists serm to believe.

sadly people want to follow a flawed english text. (any english language text is flawed because the english is a weak language as compaired to the greek..

And then will attack you when you see something and go deeper to find the real meaning.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Ok, whatever you say.

No, whatever the BIBLE says!

My post contained more scripture than what I said.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

sadly people want to follow a flawed english text. (any english language text is flawed

Any English Holy Bible is “flawed”?

“The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.” (Psalms 19:7)

And then will attack you when you see something and go deeper to find the real meaning.

And the “deeper” meaning you find in the other Greek study books ARE flawless? They are more reliable than the Holy Bible itself?

So your understanding of these UN-INSPIRED books are superior than an English translation put forth by experts?

Got it.

 

[Charlie24]

No, whatever the BIBLE says!

My post contained more scripture than what I said.

Hebrews is a case for Christ! The entire book is explaining the superiority of the New Covenant in Christ over the Law of Moses.

There was peer pressure from the temple worshiping Jews on the new Hebrew converts to return to works.

Much like you, they didn't understand Grace!

Paul was pleading with his Hebrew brothers not to depart from Christ!

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Paul was pleading with his Hebrew brothers not to depart from Christ!

You are adding that to the text!

“For if we sin wilfully depart from Christ after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26)

Much like you, they didn't understand Grace!

I under stand biblical Grace. You understand Grace through the lens of Once Saved Always Saved

But I wonder if you understand Holiness?

 

[Charlie24]

You are adding that to the text!

“For if we sin wilfully depart from Christ after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26)



I under stand biblical Grace. You understand Grace through the lens of Once Saved Always Saved

But I wonder if you understand Holiness?

You keep forgetting that don't adhere to OSAS, but I do understand where they are coming from, and I have no problem with it.

There are many in my Baptist Church that believe OSAS and we get along just fine, no problem.

I know for a fact they hate sin, they in no way use OSAS as a license to sin.

But there are abusers, and again, the ones you are pounding here in this thread are not the abusers!

You can't help but pound, you are sinless, looking down on the rest of us.

In reality you are in need of the humility of Cross, when one realizes what Christ has done for him, humility and remorse take over.

You are riding your sinless chariot popping the whip on the rest of us, you had better check up and see who you really are!

 

[Rudometkin]

After we are saved, there is MUCH MORE TO OUR JOURNEY, not by anything we can do but what we allow Him to do through us.

Let me lay this out straight... And you can let me know if I misunderstand.

You believe...

------------

God wants man to be saved.

But sometimes man decides to take control of the situation by not allowing God to save him.

------------

You think you have God under your thumb. That kind of theology disgusts me.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I love DAN that you always give scripture.

What I'd like you to clarify for me is what you mean by Christ finished work.

My understanding is that yes when Jesus said it is finished that was the full price for the wages of any sin to whosoever believes on Him. His work is finished and nothing we can do can ever redeem us except by Him.

His finish is just our beginning. We must then study ( not a work), seek his will in the word, pray ( not a work ), ask for light,inspiration of the H. S., in praying & studying to increase our trust and faith. We must listen for his direction and commandments.

He demands our obedience, ( not a work ).
Then HIS commandments to US is to share the gospel and share his love, ( not a work ).

So if your saying we cannot be only good but unsaved, we cannot follow after traditions or rituals of man made doctrines,then I agree.

After we are saved, there is MUCH MORE TO OUR JOURNEY, not by anything we can do but what we allow Him to do through us.

I respect the fact that you remain STEADFAST in His finished work ,but our salvation comes to fruition at the end of our life by being obedient and following Him !

I like your post. There is one place that bothered me though, where you said, “He demands our obedience.”
Could you expand on that?

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@Rudometkin
I am under God's submission ,he is not under mine. He however will not force us,we have to draw nigh to God then he will draw nigh to us.
It is by our free will that we submit to Him.
James 4:5-8 ( Cxt)
We MUST have actions to our faith, not be inactive. When something has a charge if it's left unused the charge gradually dissipates and has to be recharged or it is useless!

You have shown in this 1 post some serious attitude of your spirit,not the Holy Spirit therefore we are done !

Remember this song ?
WE MUST WALK GOD'S WAY OR WE ARE NOT FOLLOWING HIM!