The Promised Land:

[Eternally Grateful]

Her you go bud…believe what you will.

the 6 million figure is exaggerated probably by a factor of ten. There were more like 600,000 not 6,000,000 Jews who died of ALL causes during WW II.


The ugly little truth is that they (Jews) got rich off of the subsidies paid as reparations, reaped enormous International sympathy, and got a Nation as well (Israel). Four-fifths of the supposed 6 million Jewish victims that Germany was paying subsidies as reparations for were alive after the war. That should answer your question as to WHY the Jews would lie. Nobody mentions the 12 million Christians who died in WW II, nor were any reparations paid. I guess they don't count anymore, maybe they never did. Nor does anyone mention 'who' financed that war (the same people who financed BOTH sides of our American Civil War). Yeah, you got it, the 'victims,' the Rothschild's and the other International Jewish banking Family Cartels.

I've seen faked before and after photos of corpses superposed in front of Concentration camp inmates:

FAKE death camp PHOTOGRAPHS

Excerpted from: -- Did Six Million Really Die? The Truth At Last; pg. 23 & 24

"Not only were situations such as those at Belsen unscrupulously exploited for propaganda purposes, but this propaganda has also made use of entirely fake atrocity photographs and films. The extreme conditions at Belsen applied to very few camps indeed; the great majority escaped the worst difficulties and their inmates survived in good health. As a result, outright forgeries were used to exaggerate conditions of horror.

A startling case of such forgery was revealed in the British Catholic Herald of October 29, 1948. It reported that in Cassel, where every adult German was compelled to see a film representing the "horrors" of Buchenwald, a doctor from Goettingen saw himself on the Screen looking after the victims. But he had never been to Buchenwald. After an interval of bewilderment he realized that what he had seen was part of a film taken after the terrible air raid on Dresden by the Allies on 13 February, 1945 where the doctor had been working. The film in question was shown in Cassel on 19 October, 1948. After the air raid on Dresden, which killed a record 135,000 people, mostly refugee women and children, the bodies of the victims were piled and burned in heaps of 400 and 500 for several weeks. These were the scenes, purporting to be from Buchenwald, which the doctor had recognized.

The forgery of war-time atrocity photographs is not new. For further information the reader is referred to Falsehood in Wartime (London, 1928) by Arthur Ponsonby MP, which exposes the faked photographs of German atrocities in the First World War. Ponsonby cites such fabrications as "The Corpse Factory" and "The Belgian Baby without Hands," which are strikingly reminiscent of the propaganda relating to Nazi ‘atrocities’. F.J. P. Wale explains in his book that the bogus "jar of human soap" solemnly introduced by the Soviet prosecution at Nuremberg was a deliberate jibe at the famous British "Corpse Factory" myth, in which the ghoulish Germans were supposed to have obtained various commodities from processing corpses (Times 17 April 1917, p.5; Veale, ibid, p. 192; The Penguin Book of Lies, Kerr, London, 1990, p. 301). The accusation was one for which the British Government apologized after 1918.

It received new life after 1945 in the tale of lamp shades of human skin, which was certainly as fraudulent as the Soviet "human soap". In fact, from Manvell and Frankl we have the grudging admission that the lamp shade evidence at the Buchenwald Trial "later appeared to be dubious" (The Incomparable Crime, p. 84).

It was given by a certain Andreas Pfaffenberger in a "written affidavit" of the kind discussed earlier, but in 1948 General Lucius Clay admitted that the affidavits used in the trial appeared after more thorough investigation to have been mostly ‘hearsay’.​

I will believe what I heard.

not some propoganda site

But you believe what you will

it does not matter if it was 600,000 or 6 million. what happened to them was evil.. and to downplay it just shows your true colors

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Sounds like you are still stuck in the misunderstanding of the Jewish people back when they thought that they had the Temple to protect them from the Babylonians. They believed that God would not scatter them abroad to the four corners of the earth. But He has.

well of course. Just like God promised he would in Lev 26

For God's redemption plan for all of the peoples of the earth to work, God needs His Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the nations, for people to hear of His redemption plan for all of them.

It seems to me that you are arguing against God's redemption plan by insisting that the Israelites have to return to the "Promise Land" first, when God purposely scattered them to the four corners of the earth as He foretold to Jacob on his way to Laban to get a wife, and then on his way down to Egypt because of the famine in the land, that He, God, would gather them all back to Himself at the end of His redemptive plan for all of the earth.

No. I do not believe this at all.. I would asksomeone what they believe instead of assuming things

Now as to your point that I need to study the scriptures more, I agree with you, just like you also need to study the scripture more for yourself.

God is still revealing more treasures to me about His redemptive plan for all of mankind.

Shalom

I would start at lev 26, when God says even after he has scattered them in the lands of their enemies. he will not forge tthem.. and if they repent. he will remember his covenant made with their father..

 

[Truthnightmare]

I will believe what I heard.

not some propoganda site

But you believe what you will

it does not matter if it was 600,000 or 6 million. what happened to them was evil.. and to downplay it just shows your true colors

I don’t like war and suffering, but because I don’t believe everything that was said that makes me bad?

So it doesn’t matter if I visit widows, or give to the homeless, it doesn’t matter that I believe Jesus is Lord and savior, it doesn’t matter that I do my best to tell people about Christ in a soft manner…. The only thing that matters is if I don’t believe what you believe concerning the holocaust… I’m bad.

No worries.

 

[Jay Ross]

I would start at lev 26, when God says even after he has scattered them in the lands of their enemies. he will not forge tthem.. and if they repent. he will remember his covenant made with their father..

26:1 Promise of Blessing and Retribution

(Deut 7:12-24; 28)

'You shall not make idols for yourselves;
neither a carved image nor a sacred pillar shall you rear up for yourselves;
nor shall you set up an engraved stone in your land parcel, to bow down to it;
for I am the Lord your God.
2 You shall keep My Sabbaths and reverence My sanctuary:
I am the Lord.

3 'If you walk in My statutes and keep My commandments, and perform them,
4 then I will give you rain in its season, the earth shall yield its produce, and the trees of the field shall yield their fruit.
5 Your threshing shall last till the time of vintage, and the vintage shall last till the time of sowing;
you shall eat your bread to the full, and dwell in your land parcel safely.
6 I will give peace in the land where you live, and you shall lie down, and none will make you afraid;
I will rid the earth of evil beasts,
and the sword will not go through the land where you live.
7 You will chase your enemies, and they shall fall by the sword before you.
8 Five of you shall chase a hundred, and a hundred of you shall put ten thousand to flight;
your enemies shall fall by the sword before you.
9 'For I will look on you favourably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.
10 You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
11 I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.
12 I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.
13 I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land/country of Egypt, that you should not be their slaves;
I have broken the bands of your yoke and made you walk upright.

14 'But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments,
15 and if you despise My statutes, or if your soul abhors My judgments, so that you do not perform all My commandments, but break My covenant,
16 I also will do this to you:
I will even appoint terror over you, wasting disease and fever which shall consume the eyes and cause sorrow of heart.
And you shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it.
17 I will set My face against you, and you shall be defeated by your enemies.
Those who hate you shall reign over you, and you shall flee when no one pursues you.

18 'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, then I will punish you seven times more for your sins.
19 I will break the pride of your power;
I will make your heavens like iron and the land where you live, like bronze.

20 And your strength shall be spent in vain;
for the land where you live, shall not yield its produce, nor shall the trees of the earth yield their fruit.
21 'Then, if you walk contrary to Me, and are not willing to obey Me, I will bring on you seven times more plagues, according to your sins.
22 I will also send wild beasts among you, which shall rob you of your children, destroy your livestock, and make you few in number;
and your highways shall be desolate.

23 'And if by these things you are not reformed by Me, but walk contrary to Me,
24 then I also will walk contrary to you, and I will punish you yet seven times for your sins.
25 And I will bring a sword against you that will execute the vengeance of the covenant;
when you are gathered together within your cities, I will send pestilence among you;
and you shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy.
26 When I have cut off your supply of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall bring back your bread by weight, and you shall eat and not be satisfied.

27 'And after all this, if you do not obey Me, but walk contrary to Me,
28 then I also will walk contrary to you in fury;
and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins.
29 You shall eat the flesh of your sons, and you shall eat the flesh of your daughters.
30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars, and cast your carcasses on the lifeless forms of your idols;
and My soul shall abhor you.
31 I will lay your cities waste and bring your sanctuaries to desolation, and I will not smell the fragrance of your sweet aromas.
32 I will bring the land/earth to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it.
33 I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you;
the land where you live shall be desolate and your cities waste.
34 Then the earth shall enjoy its sabbaths as long as it lies desolate and you are in your enemies' /countries;
then the earth shall rest and enjoy its sabbaths.
35 As long as it lies desolate it shall rest —
for the time it did not rest on your sabbaths when you dwelt in it.

36 'And as for those of you who are left, I will send faintness into their hearts in the lands/countries of their enemies;
the sound of a shaken leaf shall cause them to flee;
they shall flee as though fleeing from a sword, and they shall fall when no one pursues.
37 They shall stumble over one another, as it were before a sword, when no one pursues;
and you shall have no power to stand before your enemies.
38 You shall perish among the nations, and the countries of your enemies shall eat you up.
39 And those of you who are left shall waste away in their iniquity in your enemies' countries;
also, in their fathers' iniquities, which are with them, they shall waste away.

40 'But if they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their fathers, with their unfaithfulness in which they were unfaithful to Me, and that they also have walked contrary to Me,
41 and that I also have walked contrary to them and have brought them into the land/countries of their enemies;
if their uncircumcised hearts are humbled, and they accept their guilt —
42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and My covenant with Isaac and My covenant with Abraham I will remember;
also the earth I will remember.
43 The earth also shall be left empty by them, and will enjoy its sabbaths while it lies desolate without them;
they will accept their guilt, because they despised My judgments and because their soul abhorred My statutes.
44 Yet for all that, when they are in the countries of their enemies, I will not cast them away, nor shall I abhor them, to utterly destroy them and break My covenant with them;
for I am the Lord their God.
45 But for their sake I will remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought out of the country of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God:
I am the Lord.'"

46 These are the statutes and judgments and laws which the Lord made between Himself and the children of Israel on Mount Sinai by the hand of Moses.

 

[ScottA]

ScottA, I have moved on from your silliness to address the thread's topic. Do you know where you are stuck, at this moment.

It seems to me that in your anger, all you are doing now is attempting to curse me. Not a good sign of your maturity in Christ.

No, this is your silliness and anger...I'm just allowing you to show yourself by replying and pointing it out. If you don't like the rabbit hole you've made, don't be so quick to go there.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Here is a question about where Jesus Christ Shut the book after reading Isaiah 6:1. When does verse 4 and 5 take place? To me it does fit the topic since as the passage goes on it speaks of making an “everlasting covenant” with them which is brought up concerning the land God promised unto them that they will rebuild. And “they shall rebuild” is spoken of in respect of the land and cities. And there is said to be a pause at when He shut the book where that which comes after where He closed the book is not until a future time of the day of vengeance. What if I think I can show where verse 4 and 5 was fulfilled in the Grace given to Paul for (rebuilding) up in edification? Would any even consider the words of Paul (inspired by the Spirit of God) that what comes after the pause and His shutting of the book read in the temple, was fulfilled by Grace? Or do we prefer to not even consider it a possibility that Paul (Christ in Paul) speaks and does actively putting in to action verse 4 and 5.

Isaiah 61:1-6 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD has anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; [2] To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD,

and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; [3] To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified. [4] And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. [5] And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. [6] But you shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: you shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall you boast yourselves.

I don’t know about you but when I saw in Paul’s words of action doing verse 4 and 5…that blew apart those verses are awaiting the rebuilding of not, what Paul and the Disciples of Christ were rebuilding or raising up. But is persuaded as being something better than what they of Christ were rebuilding.

But I’m thinking why force someone or anyone to consider something they don’t want to consider? If anyone has their mind set on what they are persuaded of, —He stopped there because the day of vengeance did not happen and will not happen until His return(Paul shows He did return) —have they not already decided and refuse any other perspective. But to me …verse 4 and 5 The Spirit of the Resurrection of and in Christ walked where Paul said “He is Alive” moved past the shutting of the book in the temple, and on to rebuilding the Habitation of God.

 

[Jay Ross]

Here is a question about where Jesus Christ Shut the book after reading Isaiah 6:1. When does verse 4 and 5 take place? To me it does fit the topic since as the passage goes on it speaks of making an “everlasting covenant” with them which is brought up concerning the land God promised unto them that they will rebuild. And “they shall rebuild” is spoken of in respect of the land and cities.

From my perspective, you are misunderstanding Isiah 61. The question that we need to answer is what had been ruined? What had been desolated in Jerusalem?

The Promised Land was not what needed to be rebuilt by the Israelites. The Israelites had to rebuild their relationship with God after walking contrary to Him for two ages with an unrepentant heart.

The ruins are described in these three passages from Isaiah: -

Isaiah 52: -

7 How beautiful upon the mountains​

Are the feet of him who brings good news,​

Who proclaims peace,​

Who brings glad tidings of good things,​

Who proclaims salvation,​

Who says to Zion,​

"Your God reigns!"​

8 Your watchmen shall lift up their voices,​

With their voices they shall sing together;​

For they shall see eye to eye​

When the Lord brings back Zion.​

9 Break forth into joy, sing together,​

You waste places of Jerusalem!​

For the Lord has comforted His people,​

He has redeemed Jerusalem.​

10 The Lord has made bare His holy arm​

In the eyes of all the nations;​

And all the ends of the earth shall see​

The salvation of our God.​

Isaiah 58: -

"If you take away the yoke from your midst,​

The pointing of the finger, and speaking wickedness, ​

10 If you extend your soul to the hungry​

And satisfy the afflicted soul,​

Then your light shall dawn in the darkness,​

And your darkness shall be as the noonday. ​

11 The Lord will guide you continually,​

And satisfy your soul in drought,​

And strengthen your bones;​

You shall be like a watered garden,​

And like a spring of water, whose waters do not fail. ​

12 Those from among you​

Shall build the old waste places;​

You shall raise up the foundations of two ages;​

And you shall be called the Repairer of the Breach,​

The Restorer of Streets to Dwell In. ​

Isaiah 61: -

61:1 "The Spirit of the Lord God is upon Me,​

Because the Lord has anointed Me​

To preach good tidings to the poor;​

He has sent Me to heal the broken hearted,​

To proclaim liberty to the captives,​

And the opening of the prison to those who are bound; ​

2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord,​

And the day of vengeance of our God;​

To comfort all who mourn, ​

3 To console those who mourn in Zion,​

To give them beauty for ashes,​

The oil of joy for mourning,​

The garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness;​

That they may be called trees of righteousness,​

The planting of the Lord, that He may be glorified."​

4 And they shall rebuild the old ruins,​

They shall raise up the former desolations,​

And they shall repair the ruined cities,​

The desolations of two ages.​

5 Strangers shall stand and feed your flocks,​

And the sons of the foreigner​

Shall be your ploughmen and your vinedressers.​

6 But you shall be named the priests of the Lord,​

They shall call you the servants of our God.​

You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,​

And in their glory, you shall boast.​

7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honour,​

And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.​

Therefore, in their countryside they shall possess double;​

Everlasting joy shall be theirs.​

​

The covenant that God will renew with Israel when He gathers Israel to Himself once again is the Kingdom of priests, a Holy Nation and His possession among the Nations covenant which he had previously made with them at Mt Sinai.​

​

If we read these passages literally, then we will miss God's intent to restore Israel to perform His intended task for them as Priests in His soon to be established Everlasting Kingdom.​

​

Perhaps we are too fixated upon having possession and control over an area of land rather than restoring our relationship with God.​

​

Because of this we are missing the context of the scriptures.​

 

[VictoryinJesus]

From my perspective, you are misunderstanding Isiah 61. The question that we need to answer is what had been ruined? What had been desolated in Jerusalem?

I love your perspective. Thank you for sharing it. What you said about what needs to be rebuilt is broken relationships with God. Agree! I get you think we don’t see it the same but in some ways we do. I’m glad you shared “what needs to be rebuilt (restored) is relationship with God.” I had never saw that perspective before. Even though it was right in front of my face. To me it is the people with broken relationships with God who need rebuilding in Christ. but you brought out it is those broken relationships with God that need rebuilding.

I do see your point that the focus of what is rebuilt is relationship with God.
But I also see that it’s the people that are broken with out relationship with God, who are restored in relationship to God. That they are those wasted through the lack of relationship, their needful of restoration unto God. So while I do think you pointed out the main focus …which I agree with …but it is also the people restored unto God who are edified by that restoring or “rebuilding” …the edification of His body in rebuilding and restoring that which is broken unto restored in relationship with God. I do agree “be you reconciled to God” to me shows your point of what is rebuilt is relationship to God.

2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who has reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and has given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and has committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he has made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

The Promised Land was not what needed to be rebuilt by the Israelites. The Israelites had to rebuild their relationship with God after walking contrary to Him for two ages with an unrepentant heart.

Agree “the Promised Land was not what needed to be rebuilt by the Israelites” It was the Israelites who needed to be rebuilt. “you must be born Anew.” Yes..reconciliation with God.

The ruins are described in these three passages from Isaiah: -

You asked in the beginning:

The question that we need to answer is what had been ruined? Agree with you what had been ruined was their relationship with God. But I also see what had been ruined was them: “mind” “heart” and “body” by their ruined relationship with God. Yet He remained with an outstretched hand. It was their “mind” “heart” and “body”:
Romans 1:28-32 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.



What had been desolated in Jerusalem? Get your point “reconciliation unto God” had been made desolate in “not only do you not enter in, but you keep those entering from entering in” “shipwrecked” comes to mind. But (Imo) what is wasted and desolate is people without relationship “reconciliation” “restored” unto God.

You waste places of Jerusalem!

Yes “You” waste place of Jerusalem. It’s the people. I’ve been trying to say it’s people being rebuilt through and by edification in Christ in their being reconciled unto God.

Shall build the old waste places;

Yes reconciling, restoring…unto God.

And they shall rebuild the old ruins,

Yes reconciling, and restoring …unto God.

rd,They shall call you the servants of our God.You shall eat the riches of the Gentiles,And in their glory, you shall boast.7 Instead of your shame you shall have double honour,And instead of confusion they shall rejoice in their portion.

You lost me in the last part of your post. Do you think Paul ate of the riches of the Gentiles? he did. As did Jerusalem.

 

[Jay Ross]

I love your perspective. Thank you for sharing it. What you said about what needs to be rebuilt is broken relationships with God. Agree! I get you think we don’t see it the same but in some ways we do. I’m glad you shared “what needs to be rebuilt (restored) is relationship with God.” I had never saw that perspective before. Even though it was right in front of my face. To me it is the people with broken relationships with God who need rebuilding in Christ. but you brought out it is those broken relationships with God that need rebuilding.

I do see your point that the focus of what is rebuilt is relationship with God.
But I also see that it’s the people that are broken with out relationship with God, who are restored in relationship to God. That they are those wasted through the lack of relationship, their needful of restoration unto God. So while I do think you pointed out the main focus …which I agree with …but it is also the people restored unto God who are edified by that restoring or “rebuilding” …the edification of His body in rebuilding and restoring that which is broken unto restored in relationship with God. I do agree “be you reconciled to God” to me shows you point of what is rebuilt is relationship to God.

2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. [18] And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; [19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. [20] Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. [21] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.



Agree “the Promised Land was not what needed to be rebuilt by the Israelites” It was the Israelites who needed to be rebuilt. “you must be born Anew.” Yes..reconciliation with God.

You asked in the beginning:

The question that we need to answer is what had been ruined? Agree with you what had been ruined was their relationship with God. But I also see what had been ruined was them: “mind” “heart” and “body” by their ruined relationship with God. Yet He remained with an outstretched hand. It was their “mind” “heart” and “body”:
Romans 1:28-32 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, [30] Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: [32] Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.



What had been desolated in Jerusalem? Get your point “reconciliation unto God” had been made desolate in “not only do you not enter in, but you keep those entering from entering in” “shipwrecked” comes to mind. But (Imo) what is wasted and desolate is people without relationship “reconciliation” “restored” unto God.





Yes “You” waste place of Jerusalem. It’s the people. I’ve been trying to say it’s people being rebuilt through and by edification in Christ in their being reconciled unto God.

Yes reconciling, restoring…unto God.

Yes reconciling, and restoring …unto God.

You lost me in the last part of your post. Do you think Paul ate of the riches of the Gentiles? he did. As did Jerusalem.

I think you are getting the picture/context of the three passages I quoted from Isiah.

 

[rwb]

I put this under debate because I do get first) it’s only an opinion, and second) many will disagree.

This is only sharing a perspective about what is happening right now (and has been ongoing) between Israel and Pakistan(did I spell that right?)

My husband said something the other day that I thought was an interesting perspective. As I thought about what he said, the more I agreed considering “brothers, why not take the wrong.”

It would be a miracle but what if Israel changed their mind and stood up to say “this is not the promised Land, which God promised to us.” And they left that territory demonstrating before the world “this is not our Land.” “This is not the land we have looked for and it is not the Land God promised unto us.” I get that leaves the question of where would the people of Israel go then, similar to where are the civilians of Pakistan to go?

But that isn’t the point. But Israel’s bold demonstration of “this is not the Land God gave (gives)to us.” “this is not the Land God spoke of, nor speaks of as “our Land”. “Take it!” (Imo) It isn’t neglecting the promise of God …because it is not about dirt but Christ. “Brethren, instead take the wrong.”

I get I’d have a hard time finding anyone who would agree but instead say stay and fight for what land God has given to Israel. Personally I would love to see them surrender it (.the dirt) and make the statement of the true promised Land God has indeed (not lied) given unto them. Would it look like failure for Israel? Would it look like weakness to the rest of the world for them to go shouting that “this is not the Land God gave to us!” To me…it would be the power of God standing with them. A proclamation that needs to be heard and seen that the fighting is over the wrong territory and Land. But, that is not to diminish the promise of God as being a real promise but demonstrating that God is indeed with them by taking the wrong and following Him out, where He alone delivers having made this promise “I will make even your enemies to be a peace with you.”

I get most if not all will not agree …but I would love to see Israel shout “this is NOT the promised Land.” yet “God does not lie that He gives us the Land!”

How do we keep supporting that the land being fought over …is the Land promised unto Israel to be given to them of God? How do we remain stern along with “that is the Land.”

The reason, I believe, Israel could never give up the physical land as the promised land God gave specifically to them, is because they have not spiritual understanding! The problem for the nation of Israel (Orthodox Jew) is they have NOT faith. Everything to them that God promised Israel, ethnic Israelites believe must be literally or physically fulfilled. That's why they, Orthodox Jews, are still waiting for the promised Messiah to come. They believe that when the Messiah does come it will be with military might that will physically conquer all of their enemies and they will once again possess all the promised land of Caanan. Without understanding spiritual fulfillment through Christ, they cannot accept their Messiah as coming to be a servant, to serve and save His people.

Since the nation of Israel today still rejects Christ, The Messiah, they have no spiritual understanding of how He promises whosoever believes not merely the land of promise of old, but the whole new earth. Orthodox Jews today also deny that all the promises of God wrapped around the inheritance of all the land of Caanan, the promised land was already fulfilled. Since they lost the land they inherited under Joshua's leadership through disobedience and turning away from God, and the promise was everlasting, they still look to that same land as belonging to them alone. Without faith in Christ, the Messiah they have not understanding of how the promised land of Caanan now incorporates the whole new earth.

 

[rwb]

That is not only what I took away from it. But I felt that was at the heart of it. (Maybe I was wrong) but making the fighting for the land as a right to worship being taken away? Is it not worship to proclaim “this is not the Land God promised us”? That God has something better In Store for us? I only wanted to share a perspective. Mostly that I’m not so convinced that is the Land God spoke of as giving to them. Which isn’t a bad thing in my opinion but a greater Land promised to them. I understood right from the start many would have a different perspective of that IS the Land God promised them. I knew its an odd perspective but it’s just how I see it. I still stand by the OP of God hasn’t lied to them but I don’t think that is the Land He promised them. Again…this isn’t to criticize them because I have seen the pictures of the people there. Real people. Real troubles. Real pain and suffering. I’m only suggesting God has given them and promised them more than that small territory.

The promises God gave to the Jewish people of faith is never ending. The everlasting promises God made regarding the holy land of Caanan was a conditional promise. IF they kept the Covenant with God they promised they would, they could have the land forever. Sadly they did not remain faithful to their Covenant promise to God. For that reason the promised land of old was taken from them. Truth is the everlasting promise for land was not only the land of old, but the whole new earth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

The reason, I believe, Israel could never give up the physical land as the promised land God gave specifically to them, is because they have not spiritual understanding! The problem for the nation of Israel (Orthodox Jew) is they have NOT faith. Everything to them that God promised Israel, ethnic Israelites believe must be literally or physically fulfilled. That's why they, Orthodox Jews, are still waiting for the promised Messiah to come. They believe that when the Messiah does come it will be with military might that will physically conquer all of their enemies and they will once again possess all the promised land of Caanan. Without understanding spiritual fulfillment through Christ, they cannot accept their Messiah as coming to be a servant, to serve and save His people.

Since the nation of Israel today still rejects Christ, The Messiah, they have no spiritual understanding of how He promises whosoever believes not merely the land of promise of old, but the whole new earth. Orthodox Jews today also deny that all the promises of God wrapped around the inheritance of all the land of Caanan, the promised land was already fulfilled. Since they lost the land they inherited under Joshua's leadership through disobedience and turning away from God, and the promise was everlasting, they still look to that same land as belonging to them alone. Without faith in Christ, the Messiah they have not understanding of how the promised land of Caanan now incorporates the whole new earth.

The promises God gave to the Jewish people of faith is never ending. The everlasting promises God made regarding the holy land of Caanan was a conditional promise. IF they kept the Covenant with God they promised they would, they could have the land forever. Sadly they did not remain faithful to their Covenant promise to God. For that reason the promised land of old was taken from them. Truth is the everlasting promise for land was not only the land of old, but the whole new earth.

2 Corinthians 13:7-14 But we pray to God that you may not do wrong-not that we may appear to have met the test, but that you may do what is right, though we may seem to have failed. [8] For we cannot do anything against the truth, but only for the truth. [9] For we are glad when we are weak and you are strong. Your restoration is what we pray for. [10] For this reason I write these things while I am away from you, that when I come I may not have to be severe in my use of the authority that the Lord has given me for building up and not for tearing down. [11] Finally, brothers, rejoice. Aim for restoration, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you. [12] Greet one another with a holy kiss. [13] All the saints greet you. [14] The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ and the love of God and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.

I do see most of what you’re saying but at the same time the bulk of Christianity says the same thing over what the promise Land is. (Imo) They are still those brothers for whom Christ died for. Same as the Pakistan.

Even though I don’t think the Land they are fighting over is the Land Promised unto them. That is not meant to be my suggestion the people suffering from sin and in bondage are not those for whom Christ died. i still think what is happening is significant biblically. I only question what is the focal point of restoration. An example: church …over is it the building and the altar and holy water or the people within the building…